Grado PS1000: The Legendary Flagship (Review) - Page 5

Interesting review!

The last months I've again started to buy and sell more and more headphones, just for fun and because I'm kind of a "sick headphone-nerd" (maybe this is the wrong term, but ... you probably know what I mean...)

The PS1000 with the "right amp" might be the ultimate winner for some people.

My nephew -for example- likes the SRH-1840 far more than the LCD-2 Rev.2, I've given him as a birthday present. That's his honest opinion and just fine, because I know everybody has its own preferences.

As it belongs to me, I've tried out every high-end Grado you can get here, including the PS1000 and when it comes to my likings, neither the PS1000 nor any other Grado headphone I've heard so far out of different SS amps and tube amps, can impress me as much as the HD800 or even the T1 can do it out of e.g. the Meier Corda Symphony or other SS or tube amps.

The Grados are simply no match, neither technically, nor sonically and the wearing comfort without further modding is -in comparison to many other headphones- just awful.

Over the past ten years or so, I've really tried to like Grado headphones, but I can't. It's a matter of taste, but not only...

While money is luckily not really a problem for me and I've more than enough very fine headphones at the moment (HD800, T1, LCD-3, HEV90/HE90, SR007MK1, SR009, D7000, K1000, W3000ANV, etc.), I also have to note, that Grado headphones are totally overpriced here in Germany/Austria. (The only Grado I own atm. is an old PS-1 Pro, which I've bought for collecting reasons - I only listened once with it for a very short time and since then it's stored in its box.)

Here in Germany/Austria you pay ~2000 EUR (= ~2520 USD) for a PS1000 and for just 1000 EUR you can either get a HD800 or a T1 for example, with better build quality, better sound quality (to me subjectively spoken the HD800 sound three times as good as the PS1000) and without that cheap DIY-charme that comes with every Grado, in my opinion.

And a further side note:

The (to me fairly new) LCD-3, which has also kind of a DIY-style, costs also about 2000 EUR here, but I personally think it's worth the money and sounds just awesome with the Malvalve head amp three tube amp, I've bought especially for it .

I'm not often here in this forum, and out of my experiences with a -hopefully- open minded view of the things, I know that tastes differ and also that they can change quite a bit from time to time (e.g. sometimes I like the e-stats sound over the sound of the e-dyns, and vice versa - maybe it's kind of a special and different daily mood, I'm in, when liking this or that sound more than the other...).

I just read this topic and wanted to add my two cents to it, also because last weekend a friend of mine came for a visit an brought with him his recently purchased PS500, which I listened to with several amps and -you guess it already- I also didn't like very much. This friend, however, likes the PS500 much (otherwise he wouldn't have bought it, I think), while the T1 is still his favourite can, as he said to me.

I don't want to offend anyone of you, and as I said, maybe some Grados are just very fine for some you and better than other technically superior cans.

Hopefully you'll have no problem with my honest opinion on this topic, otherwise you're free to delete my post here through an admin or so.

Greetings from Nuremberg atm. and happy listening with whatever headphone you like,

Der Germane

Der Germane: I didn't find your post offensive at all. Many people feel the same way as you about the Grados (and also the HD800s and T1s). Sounds like your friend has similar taste as I do, as he loves both the PS500s and the T1s. Those are my two favorite headphones, as well. 

Also nice to see you have experience with some Meier gear. Being German-American, I take a lot of pride in buying from Herr Meier. He is a great person to communicate with and his Corda Jazz is excellent. 

Der Germane: I share your frustration about the overpricing of Grado cans in Europe. the price of the Grado PS1000 in the UK is £1800 which is 60% more than the US list price.

Grado are shooting themselves in the foot by making their flagship phones out of reach of the common hi-fi shopper outside of the US. One normally buys from a hi-fi retailer after a demonstration but with 60% off the street price here a few clicks away on fleabay or from a US dealer, European hi-fi outlets are loosing out. Not so with the HD800 as you point out. It was very refreshing to be able to go into a fairly local outlet try my HD800 and buy them there on the spot.

In addition the Grado PS1000 - Hardwired, another real pain for folks living outside the US who want to fit aftermarket cables, and if there's any headphone that can benefit from an after market cable its the PS1000.

Don't get me wrong though I do enjoy the PS1000, even more so I've had a chance to listen to them side by side now against the LCD3 (Listening for me is 50% pleasure 25% paranoia and 25% upgraditis) It just takes more money and a lot more effort in getting there. But as others point out, when you do, their a great listen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Der Germane 

Interesting review!

 

The last months I've again started to buy and sell more and more headphones, just for fun and because I'm kind of a "sick headphone-nerd" (maybe this is the wrong term, but ... you probably know what I mean...)

 

The PS1000 with the "right amp" might be the ultimate winner for some people.

 

My nephew -for example- likes the SRH-1840 far more than the LCD-2 Rev.2, I've given him as a birthday present. That's his honest opinion and just fine, because I know everybody has its own preferences.

 

As it belongs to me, I've tried out every high-end Grado you can get here, including the PS1000 and when it comes to my likings, neither the PS1000 nor any other Grado headphone I've heard so far out of different SS amps and tube amps, can impress me as much as the HD800 or even the T1 can do it out of e.g. the Meier Corda Symphony or other SS or tube amps.

 

The Grados are simply no match, neither technically, nor sonically and the wearing comfort without further modding is -in comparison to many other headphones- just awful.

 

Over the past ten years or so, I've really tried to like Grado headphones, but I can't. It's a matter of taste, but not only...

 

While money is luckily not really a problem for me and I've more than enough very fine headphones at the moment (HD800, T1, LCD-3, HEV90/HE90, SR007MK1, SR009, D7000, K1000, W3000ANV, etc.), I also have to note, that Grado headphones are totally overpriced here in Germany/Austria. (The only Grado I own atm. is an old PS-1 Pro, which I've bought for collecting reasons - I only listened once with it for a very short time and since then it's stored in its box.)

 

Here in Germany/Austria you pay ~2000 EUR (= ~2520 USD) for a PS1000 and for just 1000 EUR you can either get a HD800 or a T1 for example, with better build quality, better sound quality (to me subjectively spoken the HD800 sound three times as good as the PS1000) and without that cheap DIY-charme that comes with every Grado, in my opinion.

 

And a further side note:

The (to me fairly new) LCD-3, which has also kind of a DIY-style, costs also about 2000 EUR here, but I personally think it's worth the money and sounds just awesome with the Malvalve head amp three tube amp, I've bought especially for it .

 

I'm not often here in this forum, and out of my experiences with a -hopefully- open minded view of the things, I know that tastes differ and also that they can change quite a bit from time to time (e.g. sometimes I like the e-stats sound over the sound of the e-dyns, and vice versa - maybe it's kind of a special and different daily mood, I'm in, when liking this or that sound more than the other...).

 

I just read this topic and wanted to add my two cents to it, also because last weekend a friend of mine came for a visit an brought with him his recently purchased PS500, which I listened to with several amps and -you guess it already- I also didn't like very much. This friend, however, likes the PS500 much (otherwise he wouldn't have bought it, I think), while the T1 is still his favourite can, as he said to me.

 

I don't want to offend anyone of you, and as I said, maybe some Grados are just very fine for some you and better than other technically superior cans.

 

Hopefully you'll have no problem with my honest opinion on this topic, otherwise you're free to delete my post here through an admin or so.

 

Greetings from Nuremberg atm. and happy listening with whatever headphone you like,

 

Der Germane

Hi Der Germane,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. What do you think of HP1000 (with your experience I assume that you have tried them) ? With Joe's upgrade they sound even better now.

-Paul

this is an enjoyable read and it's become something of a defacto ps1000 v hd800 thread. i'm intending to compare these flagships for myself soon, but it won't be for the purpose of deciding which of them i'd like to own. having auditioned one of them on some quality rigs, i already know that it won't be the hd800. believe me, i tried to like it - i really have. i wanted to bow down before its greatness as others do, but even though i do appreciate its technical proficiency - resolving, excellent imaging, impressive soundstage etc. i just don't like it enough to want to own it.

in spite of its exemplary frequency response, stellar square wave plots, nil % THD and awesome CSDs, every time i hear it, i feel that its take on "neutrality" has been arrived at by subtracting rather than adding "colorations" to recordings that i know well, thereby rendering them a little paler in color than what i'm used to. and i've heard those recordings on some pretty damn fine sound systems.

whenever i've auditioned the hd800, i can't help but feel that i'm listening to a headphone designed by committee. it feels so over-engineered and sounds as if it has been revised, tweaked, subjected to focus groups, further revised and then massaged to meet the KPIs set down in the design brief. and in so doing, it has lost something in the process. call it verve, liveliness, musicality, i'm not quite sure how to define it, but there's something missing whenever i listen to the hd800, and i don't think that it's excessive coloration. it's as if the essence of the music has been deducted from the sonic equation, leaving it a little dry, diffuse, soulless and ultimately not engaging. and then there's that well documented treble peak that bothers me, as it has others who have heard and owned it.

as for headphone measurements, well i'll leave those to the headphone design engineers who use them in conjunction with their ears. listening and measuring complement each other in the design of headphones - it's not a mutually exclusive process. headphone design, like the design of all audio gear is part science, part alchemy. every headphone is made in the image of its creator, even if that happens to be a team of 13 faceless german audio engineers.  and as for the headroom frequency response graphs posted in this thread, i don't regard them as a TKO for the hd800 over the ps1000.

they were taken by tyll hertsen a while ago, and differ from his more recent measurements of the hd800 and ps1000 that can be found at his innerfidelity site:

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800.pdf  http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoPS1000.pdf  these variations show at the very least, that headphone measurements are not conclusive. and then there are the different measuring methodologies employed by the backyard scientists who devote their spare time and energy to furnish us with the fruits of their obsessive labours - god bless 'em. 

purrin takes a different approach to tyll, which produces different results. so which results are the most accurate? it seems to me that just as people's headphone listening impressions vary, so do the measurements, depending on who is taking them and the conditions in which they are taken. i doubt that tyll and purrin would expect us to believe that their measuring equipment is so sota and their methodology so rigorous, that the accuracy of their results are absolute and should be accepted without question. they are indicative and should be regarded as an adjunct to our hearing when we evaluate headphones, but they are not essential to that process. they will also be of more value to some head-fi'ers than others.

i'm looking forward to giving the the hd800 and ps1000 a fair hearing, along with the rs1i and the ps500 if i have time. hopefully, i'll come to my own conclusions. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmer n roar 

this is an enjoyable read and it's become something of a defacto ps1000 v hd800 thread. i'm intending to compare these flagships for myself soon, but it won't be for the purpose of deciding which of them i'd like to own. having auditioned one of them on some quality rigs, i already know that it won't be the hd800. believe me, i tried to like it - i really have. i wanted to bow down before its greatness as others do, but even though i do appreciate its technical proficiency - resolving, excellent imaging, impressive soundstage etc. i just don't like it enough to want to own it.

 

in spite of its exemplary frequency response, stellar square wave plots, nil % THD and awesome CSDs, every time i hear it, i feel that its take on "neutrality" has been arrived at by subtracting rather than adding "colorations" to recordings that i know well, thereby rendering them a little paler in color than what i'm used to. and i've heard those recordings on some pretty damn fine sound systems.

 

whenever i've auditioned the hd800, i can't help but feel that i'm listening to a headphone designed by committee. it feels so over-engineered and sounds as if it has been revised, tweaked, subjected to focus groups, further revised and then massaged to meet the KPIs set down in the design brief. and in so doing, it has lost something in the process. call it verve, liveliness, musicality, i'm not quite sure how to define it, but there's something missing whenever i listen to the hd800, and i don't think that it's excessive coloration. it's as if the essence of the music has been deducted from the sonic equation, leaving it a little dry, diffuse, soulless and ultimately not engaging. and then there's that well documented treble peak that bothers me, as it has others who have heard and owned it.

 

as for headphone measurements, well i'll leave those to the headphone design engineers who use them in conjunction with their ears. listening and measuring complement each other in the design of headphones - it's not a mutually exclusive process. headphone design, like the design of all audio gear is part science, part alchemy. every headphone is made in the image of its creator, even if that happens to be a team of 13 faceless german audio engineers.  and as for the headroom frequency response graphs posted in this thread, i don't regard them as a TKO for the hd800 over the ps1000.

 

they were taken by tyll hertsen a while ago, and differ from his more recent measurements of the hd800 and ps1000 that can be found at his innerfidelity site

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800.pdf  http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoPS1000.pdf  these variations show at the very least, that headphone measurements are not conclusive. and then there are the different measuring methodologies employed by the backyard scientists who devote their spare time and energy to furnish us with the fruits of their obsessive labours - god bless 'em. 

 

purrin takes a different approach to tyll, which produces different results. so which results are the most accurate? it seems to me that just as people's headphone listening impressions vary, so do the measurements, depending on who is taking them and the conditions in which they are taken. i doubt that tyll and purrin would expect us to believe that their measuring equipment is so sota and their methodology so rigorous, that the accuracy of their results are absolute and should be accepted without question. they are indicative and should be regarded as an adjunct to our hearing when we evaluate headphones, but they are not essential to that process. they will also be of more value to some head-fi'ers than others.

 

i'm looking forward to giving the the hd800 and ps1000 a fair hearing, along with the rs1i and the ps500 if i have time. hopefully, i'll come to my own conclusions. 

 

Just make sure you have an amp that matches the electrical requirements of the HD800's as well as possible.  I'm thinking a lot of us who have demoed them have not had... and... that may be why we were not impressed with them.  Though... it appears enough have tried them with a variety of amps that there would be more of a consensus... IF... they really were as great as some suggest.  

Perhaps, more likely, many have not heard the PS1000's, PS500's... or even the RS-1's at their best.  There is just that much of a gap between the two in what I've heard.   To me... the clarity, detail, timbre, tone, tenor and texture of the PS1000's and PS500's are unparalleled.  They sound so much more like "real, live music" than anything else I've heard.  And there is... most definitely... a difference (between technical clarity, detail and resolution, etc.... and... the sound of "real, live music" reproduced well (which contains all sorts of distortions, which make it sound life-like)).  I don't know... but... I'm guessing it has something to do with how Grado reproduces the 2nd order, 3rd order, or lower order, harmonics (whatever)... or life-like distortion (like tubes do)... that makes the difference.  Whatever it is... there is most definitely a difference.  That seems to be Grado's "Crowning Achievement" - he (they) figured out how to reproduce that "life-like" sound in all their components... and... few others have.

I wish there were more posts like shimmer n roar's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmer n roar 

this is an enjoyable read and it's become something of a defacto ps1000 v hd800 thread. i'm intending to compare these flagships for myself soon, but it won't be for the purpose of deciding which of them i'd like to own. having auditioned one of them on some quality rigs, i already know that it won't be the hd800. believe me, i tried to like it - i really have. i wanted to bow down before its greatness as others do, but even though i do appreciate its technical proficiency - resolving, excellent imaging, impressive soundstage etc. i just don't like it enough to want to own it.

 

in spite of its exemplary frequency response, stellar square wave plots, nil % THD and awesome CSDs, every time i hear it, i feel that its take on "neutrality" has been arrived at by subtracting rather than adding "colorations" to recordings that i know well, thereby rendering them a little paler in color than what i'm used to. and i've heard those recordings on some pretty damn fine sound systems.

 

whenever i've auditioned the hd800, i can't help but feel that i'm listening to a headphone designed by committee. it feels so over-engineered and sounds as if it has been revised, tweaked, subjected to focus groups, further revised and then massaged to meet the KPIs set down in the design brief. and in so doing, it has lost something in the process. call it verve, liveliness, musicality, i'm not quite sure how to define it, but there's something missing whenever i listen to the hd800, and i don't think that it's excessive coloration. it's as if the essence of the music has been deducted from the sonic equation, leaving it a little dry, diffuse, soulless and ultimately not engaging. and then there's that well documented treble peak that bothers me, as it has others who have heard and owned it.

 

as for headphone measurements, well i'll leave those to the headphone design engineers who use them in conjunction with their ears. listening and measuring complement each other in the design of headphones - it's not a mutually exclusive process. headphone design, like the design of all audio gear is part science, part alchemy. every headphone is made in the image of its creator, even if that happens to be a team of 13 faceless german audio engineers.  and as for the headroom frequency response graphs posted in this thread, i don't regard them as a TKO for the hd800 over the ps1000.

 

they were taken by tyll hertsen a while ago, and differ from his more recent measurements of the hd800 and ps1000 that can be found at his innerfidelity site:

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800.pdf  http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoPS1000.pdf  these variations show at the very least, that headphone measurements are not conclusive. and then there are the different measuring methodologies employed by the backyard scientists who devote their spare time and energy to furnish us with the fruits of their obsessive labours - god bless 'em. 

 

purrin takes a different approach to tyll, which produces different results. so which results are the most accurate? it seems to me that just as people's headphone listening impressions vary, so do the measurements, depending on who is taking them and the conditions in which they are taken. i doubt that tyll and purrin would expect us to believe that their measuring equipment is so sota and their methodology so rigorous, that the accuracy of their results are absolute and should be accepted without question. they are indicative and should be regarded as an adjunct to our hearing when we evaluate headphones, but they are not essential to that process. they will also be of more value to some head-fi'ers than others.

 

i'm looking forward to giving the the hd800 and ps1000 a fair hearing, along with the rs1i and the ps500 if i have time. hopefully, i'll come to my own conclusions. 

 

Post of the year. Here's to hoping my soon-to-arrive ZDSE makes me like the HD800 more than I do out of the Dynalo, or it's going on the chopping block in favor of past favorites (AD2000, T1). Might just have to try a PS500 soon as well.

-Daniel

ZD OTL makes the HD800 sound quite different than from a SS amp. Either you like it or discard the HD800. When you're intending to compare the HD800 to the PS1000 using the ZD - the Grado's will lose. When I consider best system for each that I have heard, then I choose the PS1000 with no doubt.

With all respect guys, how many of you tried earlier and present version of PS1000?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackmore 

With all respect guys, how many of you tried earlier and present version of PS1000?

Did Grado produce a PS1000i? I realize that the older matte finish is now bright and shiny, but I didn't think anything else changed? 

That said, I've heard the initial release ones and most recently a brand new shiny pair (about a month ago). 

nope, all of them are called ps1000

Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel 

ZD OTL makes the HD800 sound quite different than from a SS amp. Either you like it or discard the HD800. When you're intending to compare the HD800 to the PS1000 using the ZD - the Grado's will lose. When I consider best system for each that I have heard, then I choose the PS1000 with no doubt.

 I sure hope so. I can't deal with the shrilly sound much longer, although I love it's clarity and detail. I am surprised however, that I find the T1 more transparent than the HD 800, even though I'm using a more transparent amp with the Senns (Dynalo vs. C-2 SA). Anyone else feel this way?

-Daniel

No, nothing been changed, however I still not sure if that shiny, latest pair I owned, have differ cups material from the one I tried at the local shop, matte one. When I got my shiny model, I was shocked when I hooked them up for the first time, they were nothing but nothing. l dont want to go in to the detail again, my thread about my thoughts alreay here, but I just dont understand the whole thing about them anymore and I simply lost in my conclusions, so, they are gone now. On the other hand, the new owner, as some users up here to, are happy, so, like I said, I just leave it there.

THX

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacedonianHero 

 

Did Grado produce a PS1000i? I realize that the older matte finish is now bright and shiny, but I didn't think anything else changed? 

 

That said, I've heard the initial release ones and most recently a brand new shiny pair (about a month ago). 

My pair are a very dull matt finish and have a light blemish on one side (A Grado with a birth mark!), in fact the finish looks rather poor vs the chrome and shiny examples I see in photos on the web.

Still they sound just fine to me, whilst aesthetically perfect (GS1000 just look awesome and are so comfortable) all of the other Grado's I've owned have usually had Grattle(TM) or driver issues over time, touch wood no operational problems ever with these PS1000.