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post #136 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focker View Post

 

Another factor is the recording process. Most tracks aren't recorded as a whole, they are recorded in parts and then mixed by the engineer into their final form. There are tons of variables involved with this, to the degree that accuracy and fidelity pertains not necessarily to the music itself, but to the preferences and tendencies of the engineer. Any number of enhancements or other forms of processing can take place when working toward the final result and those variables will appeal to us in varying degrees just as the inherent qualities of a particular headphone will.   Further, our ears are not meant to be measuring instruments. Just because something shows up on a read out or graph doesn't mean our ears will necessarily detect it. For those measurements that CAN be audibly detected, the threshold will vary from person to person. Lastly, people will rely on measurements for different reasons, and this is very evident after spending some time on a site like this one. I think the majority of people want to learn about and understand the objective data because they are sincerely interested in learning more about both the characteristics of their gear and how it relates to their own preferences. But you also have people who use objective data as a way to empower them as "right fighters". Their focus is more the discourse among the members here and an interest in being able to be right about something. That is the sort of thing that can really derail a thread and detract from the otherwise good-natured exchanges that take place here. When it all comes down to it, it's just audio gear...it's not life or death...some people take things way too seriously here and measurements are often used as a means of putting someone else down. 

 

Anyway, back to the discussion....


i couldn't agree more. smile.gif

post #137 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by LCfiner View Post

 

 

I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Our ears and brains will tell us what is pleasing, sure, but what is pleasing may not be the most accurate reproduction of the recording. 

 

There’s nothing wrong with making transducers that attempt to make sounds more pleasing by deviating from neutral, but I’m not going to disregard proper measurements and say that my enjoyment of the sound somehow makes the headphones more accurate and makes the measurements useless. That wouldn’t be true.

 

neutral is a flat frequency response. i doubt that you would want to listen to that in a headphone. the closer a headphone's sound signature comes to a flat frequency response, the more unbearable the treble becomes for most of us. so given that headphone engineers exercise their subjective judgement to roll-off the treble to ensure that we find them tolerable, how do you determine which headphone is more "neutral" than another?

 

i'm not suggesting for a moment that measurements are useless. however, would you buy a headphone that measures very well but you found unengaging or disliked, or a headphone that doesn't measure as well but you preferred far more? conversely, you might buy a headphone that measures very well, but surely your choice is ultimately based on how that headphone sounds to you rather than on how well it measures. smile.gif


Edited by shimmer n roar - 7/15/12 at 11:51am
post #138 of 191

john grado reportedly relies solely on his ears to tune his headphones. however, the design of headphones generally involves a combination of listening and measurement. read over your post and you'll see that you're using measurements as a guide up to a point, but it's your ears that ultimately inform your judgement of a headphone's merits. the measurements assist you with making sense of what you're hearing and to indicate what you might hear from a headphone, but they have no bearing upon whether you will actually like it or not. so they are indicative but not conclusive, and that's as it should be. your assessment of a headphone is ultimately a subjective one as it is with the ps1000. there are other people in this thread who clearly disagree with you, and they've seen the measurements and heard the other flagship headphones that you've mentioned. so again, in the end, it comes down to a matter of opinion and personal preference, regardless of what the measurements say. smile.gif


Edited by shimmer n roar - 7/15/12 at 1:09pm
post #139 of 191

i don't think that there's any misunderstanding on my part. as i said, i'm not defending the ps1000 and i haven't accused you of denigrating it. however, that built in loudness eq that you refer to apparently looks similar to the fletcher-munsen equal loudness contour curves, and makes the ps1000 an excellent headphone for low level listening. and you could also say that the th900, w3000anv, t1, hd800 and the sr-700mk2 all have problems reproducing recordings "accurately" to varying degrees according to the measurements, and that we should expect better at their pricepoints. i've found that the terms "accurate" and "neutral" are used pretty liberally around these parts. anyway, let's just agree to disagree because this discussion has become circuitous, as i knew it would when i first chimed in. focker's observation mirrors my own view of the measuring v listening debate as it occurs at head-fi and bears repeating:

 

"Further, our ears are not meant to be measuring instruments. Just because something shows up on a read out or graph doesn't mean our ears will necessarily detect it. For those measurements that CAN be audibly detected, the threshold will vary from person to person. Lastly, people will rely on measurements for different reasons, and this is very evident after spending some time on a site like this one. I think the majority of people want to learn about and understand the objective data because they are sincerely interested in learning more about both the characteristics of their gear and how it relates to their own preferences. But you also have people who use objective data as a way to empower them as "right fighters". Their focus is more the discourse among the members here and an interest in being able to be right about something. That is the sort of thing that can really derail a thread and detract from the otherwise good-natured exchanges that take place here. When it all comes down to it, it's just audio gear...it's not life or death...some people take things way too seriously here and measurements are often used as a means of putting someone else down."

 

smile.gif


Edited by shimmer n roar - 7/15/12 at 2:20pm
post #140 of 191

Back to the subject of this thread, I only own a sr325, which I love for listening to acoustic guitar. I'll never forget the time when I was exchanging cans on my head in the middle of a song and it scared me how I thought the sound was real when I put them on!

On the other hand, I hate how bright they are... some songs are unbearable with 325.

I'm thinking of upgrading them to PS500 first, and then in the future getting a PS1000 if I like them.

 

Are the PS500/PS1000 a good choice to acoustic music?


Edited by madbull - 7/15/12 at 5:53pm
post #141 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by madbull View Post

Back to the subject of this thread, I only own a sr325, which I love for listening to acoustic guitar. I'll never forget the time when I was exchanging cans on my head in the middle of a song and it scared me how I thought the sound was real when I put them on!

On the other hand, I hate how bright they are... some songs are unbearable with 325.

I'm thinking of upgrading them to PS500 first, and then in the future getting a PS1000 if I like them.

 

Are the PS500/PS1000 a good choice to acoustic music?

 

any grado is.

post #142 of 191
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubstep Girl View Post

 

any grado is.

 

That varies, I personally love it with acoustic music. Other people will think it's too unrealistic or far too bright sounding up top.

post #143 of 191

i woodied a 325....sounds smooth, organic and very appealing to me. ..my first grado gs1000.gif

post #144 of 191
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorspeaker View Post

i woodied a 325....sounds smooth, organic and very appealing to me. ..my first grado gs1000.gif

 

Did the wood bring down the brightness at all? If I do get a 325i (and I am planning to next to the RS1i) I'd like to know how much the sonic signature changes.

post #145 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmer n roar View Post

, that built in loudness eq that you refer to apparently looks similar to the fletcher-munsen equal loudness contour curves, and makes the ps1000 an excellent headphone for low level listening.

 

Wow, I never heard of that...very interesting. I often enjoy listening to my headphones while doing something else at the same time, so I will tend to listen at lower levels...sounds like this concept is very pertinent to me. 

post #146 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by madbull View Post

Back to the subject of this thread, I only own a sr325, which I love for listening to acoustic guitar. I'll never forget the time when I was exchanging cans on my head in the middle of a song and it scared me how I thought the sound was real when I put them on!

On the other hand, I hate how bright they are... some songs are unbearable with 325.

I'm thinking of upgrading them to PS500 first, and then in the future getting a PS1000 if I like them.

 

Are the PS500/PS1000 a good choice to acoustic music?

 

If you love the 325s except for how bright they are, the 500s will captivate you. They are a better all-around phone and the treble glare isn't there at all. Singer/songwriter is my preferred genre for music (although my taste is eclectic overall) so I listen to quite a lot of acoustic. Eva Cassidy Live at Blues Alley on the 500s is really something to experience. The other thing you could do is pick up an inexpensive tube buffer (my choice is the Grant Fidelity 283, which is a re-badged Yaqin piece) to tame the 325s a bit. Many of us also have good success with the Little Dot tube amps. 

post #147 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin Morrow View Post

 

Did the wood bring down the brightness at all? If I do get a 325i (and I am planning to next to the RS1i) I'd like to know how much the sonic signature changes.

 

yes, rs1i are not bright at all. they aren't rolled off either though, just smooth warm midrange with  treble thats just right. never harsh. 

 

the 325i are fast, bright, with a slightly euphonic midrange thats forward and aggressive like the other grados. the bass is somewhat light but very natural with the typical grado sound.

 

the rs1i  have less treble, its far smoother, a thicker midrange thats warm and smooth while still being forward and aggressive. the bass is stronger on the rs1i and has more punch to it.

 

 

both are great for rock music but the 325 can be less forgiving on harsher tracks. the 325 seems to be more detailed in the highs while the rs1i has a deeper and more revealing midrange.

post #148 of 191
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubstep Girl View Post

 

yes, rs1i are not bright at all. they aren't rolled off either though, just smooth warm midrange with  treble thats just right. never harsh. 

 

the 325i are fast, bright, with a slightly euphonic midrange thats forward and aggressive like the other grados. the bass is somewhat light but very natural with the typical grado sound.

 

the rs1i  have less treble, its far smoother, a thicker midrange thats warm and smooth while still being forward and aggressive. the bass is stronger on the rs1i and has more punch to it.

 

 

both are great for rock music but the 325 can be less forgiving on harsher tracks. the 325 seems to be more detailed in the highs while the rs1i has a deeper and more revealing midrange.

 

Ah, just what I am looking for. Syrupy goodness.

post #149 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focker View Post

 

If you love the 325s except for how bright they are, the 500s will captivate you. They are a better all-around phone and the treble glare isn't there at all. Singer/songwriter is my preferred genre for music (although my taste is eclectic overall) so I listen to quite a lot of acoustic. Eva Cassidy Live at Blues Alley on the 500s is really something to experience. The other thing you could do is pick up an inexpensive tube buffer (my choice is the Grant Fidelity 283, which is a re-badged Yaqin piece) to tame the 325s a bit. Many of us also have good success with the Little Dot tube amps. 


I already have a tube amp, WA3, but haven't tested it with the 325 yet. Thank you for the help! :)

post #150 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin Morrow View Post

 

Ah, just what I am looking for. Syrupy goodness.

biggrin.gif

 

if you love the hd 650s, you will love the rs1i, currently have some in the FS though since i want to try out hifiman's

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