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Audeze LCD-3, Poor Man's Stax SR 009 ? - Page 7

post #91 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by alota View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupRKnowva View Post

now that ive heard the LCD-3s and the SR009s. i would say that a properly amped HE-6 is a poor mans SR009. i dont even think the Dark Star was a good match, they had no bass impact and the highs were pretty harsh. but as soon as we hooked them up to a Beta 24 that i took with me, holy cow, they sounded very similar, though obviously the technicalities werent as good

or beta-22biggrin.gif

tomorrow i hope to buy one he-6

 

Im not sure the B22 will be as good...but i certainly dont think it will be bad lol

 

but seriously, i dont see how people keep saying the Dark Star is such a good match for the HE-6s, i thought it was a mostly terrible pairing...those phones deserve so much more!

post #92 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

All right, every time someone mentions Stax here (and it's not too often, unless it's in the big Stax thread or someone's asking me for open headphone recommendations with $500 or more to burn), it's always the SR-007 or SR-009, the big expensive flagships.

 

It's like the entire Lambda lineup doesn't exist. For that matter, the LCD-2 might as well stop existing now that the more expensive LCD-3 is out.

 

Why is this the case? Even if this is the "High-end Audio" forum, where high-priced equipment is the norm, plenty who have tried them would say that even the original Normal bias SR-Lambda punches well above its weight (especially given current used prices), and even current models like the SR-202 aren't as low-end as Stax's pricing structure might make you think. For all that praise, they're surprisingly not that popular among the audio scene as a whole.

 

I'm guessing nobody cares about headphones that aren't the most expensive flagships...but Lambda systems are by no means cheap most of the time. I got an unusually good deal on my set, but if current prices are anything to go by, getting a set for under $300 is very, very unlikely. More like $500 + a speaker power amp to drive the transformer box that was likely included instead of a direct-drive electrostatic amp.

 

Anyway, because of this, if anyone would ask about what headphone is a poor man's SR-009, I would think of a Lambda model first, even the SR-507 (most expensive Lambda, right before you get into stuff like the 4070 and SR-007). Same electrostatic driver technology, same Stax house sound.

 

     So very very true!  Oft times I go back to my original Normal bias SR-Lambda as it often tops out many of the pro bias Lambdas.  And I still love the sound signature of my AKG K-240 Sextett (Mid Period). And I will    never part with my Stax SR-5 (Black Gold Edition), another classic normal bias headphone with a sound quality unmatched.  Perhaps the fact that they rarely turn up in the sales thread says a lot about these 'lower' priced, yet high quality phones.

post #93 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post

The other challenge is stats are hyped as end game cans which means for better or worse only the top can is considered.  You can get a 2170 system for a reasonable price but its 009/KGBH or nothing around these parts.

 

Vintage models too! I think the best value rig I ever owned involved a pair of Lambda Nova Signatures I picked up for about $220!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post

Colour me clueless I thought the Koss was discontinued decades ago.  Its in production :O  With the amp... $1000 hot damn!

 

I hadn't realised this either until recently. I didn't know they were available so cheaply though.

post #94 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupRKnowva View Post

now that ive heard the LCD-3s and the SR009s. i would say that a properly amped HE-6 is a poor mans SR009. i dont even think the Dark Star was a good match, they had no bass impact and the highs were pretty harsh. but as soon as we hooked them up to a Beta 24 that i took with me, holy cow, they sounded very similar, though obviously the technicalities werent as good

With a proper amp, I think the HE-6s have more of an edginess in the mids and treble. Before on this forum I referred to the pairing of them and my SLI-80 in Ultra-Linear mode as "focused violence", and that still fits. They do have some similarities, but I see the HE-6s as 009s without manners. Which is probably why I like them so much.
post #95 of 153

I think Asr nailed it on the first page.

post #96 of 153
Thread Starter 

Didnt expect so many replies, I really appreciate it :)

 

To summarize some info for myself I made the following notes:

 

SR-009 Pros VS LCD-3: Mids/Highs - Soundstage - Detail/Imaging in general - Comfort

LCD-3 Pros VS SR-009: Thick and smooth sound - Deep basses

 

Hmm I agree if you look at the above it seems like there's not alot going on for the LCD 3 if compared to the SR 009 (which does not mean that it's all bad on the LCD-3, just compared to the high end stax models that cost 3 times more).

 

After reading the posts my personal preference is leaning towards the SR 007's now, simply because it will probably come closest to the LCD sound while opening up the sound stage and imaging which seems like a drawback on the LCD's compared to the Stax. Most of the other comments as being bad on the LCD's compared to the Stax didnt matter much for me. I dont listen to music, I only watch movies and TV which is one of the reasons i like the deep and thick sound of LCD's. It makes all the difference between feeling/hearing the earth shake during an epic cavalry charge or space ships blasting into orbit leaving me with a big WOW feeling or just sit back and see it happen and think; so so ...

 

Im using a device that clones speaker setups, one of the things this device does is EQ your headphones so it will correct (some) flaws as well, so im not too picky on the sound in general as long as i get to keep a thick sound / deep bass + a spacious soundstage around me which seems missing on the LCD-2's as I mentioned (and apparently not a huge improvement on LCD-3).

 

One more question I forgot regarding soundstage/imaging ..

 

1) Does it really look like the sound gets taken out of your head on the 009? What other headphones can give you this feeling? How would anyone rate this compared to the LCD's ?

 

=======================================================

 

I made a list potential candidates mentioned in this thread, I wonder on what ends people would say come closest to the SR 009's (im specificly interested in imaging/soundstage/bass so please dont forget to mention these points when comparing):

 

Sony Qualia 010 - (note that after some research it seems that Qualia and O10 are both different models and not called Qualia O10 - But correct me if im wrong)

 

SR-007 - although being the second model in the Stax high end at the moment there seems to be people out there who prefer the LCD-3 instead after hearing both (note: 007 comes closer to LCD sound which is probably why LCD fans might also like the SR - 007

 

LCD-3 - Reason mentioned above

 

Anything starting in the higher Lambda models starting at the SR-507

 

Fostex TH900 - No info yet

 

HD800 - Great soundstage allthough soundstage can be too big and unatural according to several reports - No more info yet

 

JVC Victor DX-1000 - No info yet

 

HE-6 - No info yet

 

ESP-950 - No info yet

 

=====================================

 

For my own preferences I started focusing on something else now as it seems I wouldnt be happy with the LCD-3 nor would I be happy with the SR 009 .. I think I need a middle way that would combine the strongest points of both these headphones (which might be the SR-007)

 

Thanks again for the input :)

post #97 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoax View Post

1) Does it really look like the sound gets taken out of your head on the 009? What other headphones can give you this feeling? How would anyone rate this compared to the LCD's ?

 

IME, pretty much none of the headphones you mention do this (haven't heard the TH900 or ESP-950 though, but not likely that they do).  In fact, no headphone does this except maybe K1000s.  The only thing that will do this is a Smyth Realizer or Isone (to a lesser degree?).  But if you're going that route you can even use IEMs with the Realizer.

post #98 of 153

Comparison LCD3 vs 009 : square waves

 

Capture d’écran 2012-06-19 à 00.04.27.png

 

Left : Audeze LC-3. Right : Stax 009

 

The audeze has the best square waves than the Stax 009. The 30 hz waves is amazing. ( = less distortion ) Stax SR Man Poor 009? I don't think so. smily_headphones1.gif

post #99 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noirceur View Post

Comparison LCD3 vs 009 : square waves

 

 

Left : Audeze LC-3. Right : Stax 009

 

The audeze has the best square waves than the Stax 009. The 30 hz waves is amazing. ( = less distortion ) Stax SR Man Poor 009? I don't think so. smily_headphones1.gif

 

I just have to ask...while the measurements do look beter in the Orthos favor, have you heard either of these phones yourself?

post #100 of 153

Sooner or later I will sit down and process those input signals and typical response through various filters. There is so much more than bass in these 30Hz square waves and I am fairly positive that this overshoot is not distortion but simply an illustration of the headphones bandwidth / damping. Anything rolled off in the mid/highs or high highly damped should have seemingly smoother square or impulse response. I admire Tyll for being able to make sense out of these square responses, I honestly can't.

post #101 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post

With a proper amp, I think the HE-6s have more of an edginess in the mids and treble. Before on this forum I referred to the pairing of them and my SLI-80 in Ultra-Linear mode as "focused violence", and that still fits. They do have some similarities, but I see the HE-6s as 009s without manners. Which is probably why I like them so much.

That is a true statement in my experience as well. If I only listened to natural instruments, stats are the king of detail and speed.

For electric instruments and impact, planars will shine. But they are harder to amp match (while both are tough for different reasons).

Magick, do you run a 10 ohm resistor across your amp terminals? That seems to have tamed some of that edginess, though I believe I like it better lively.
post #102 of 153
Among those who prefer the stax 009, who listen many rock/electronic modern music here?
post #103 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Camper View Post

That is a true statement in my experience as well. If I only listened to natural instruments, stats are the king of detail and speed.
For electric instruments and impact, planars will shine. But they are harder to amp match (while both are tough for different reasons).
Magick, do you run a 10 ohm resistor across your amp terminals? That seems to have tamed some of that edginess, though I believe I like it better lively.

I use a HiFiMan HE adapter, and I believe it rates at 10 ohms.
post #104 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noirceur View Post

Among those who prefer the stax 009, who listen many rock/electronic modern music here?

My 009s are great with this. This kind of music needs a lack of added distortion & some sweetness & bass control to deal with excesses in the performance and recording methods, and the 009s fulfill that need.

post #105 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgs9200m View Post

My 009s are great with this. This kind of music needs a lack of added distortion & some sweetness & bass control to deal with excesses in the performance and recording methods, and the 009s fulfill that need.

i don't plan on buying the 009 ever, but it's interesting to know that stax play this genres better than Audeze LCD-3

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