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Audeze LCD-3, Poor Man's Stax SR 009 ? - Page 3

post #31 of 153

Can the Fostex TH900 be thrown into the mix?  Its a dynamic.  bigsmile_face.gif

post #32 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoax View Post

This thread title might look a bit silly but after reading through numerous of threads I often see people compare the LCD-3 and the SR 009.

Based on what I read a large amount of people went for the LCD-3 to get the closest result of the SR 009 performance at 1/3 of the price

 

This was in my eyes quite suprising as both headphones use a totaly different technology (Orthodynamics vs Electrostatics).

I would expect that the closest result of the Stax SR 009 would be a cheaper Stax model but from what im reading alot of people prefer the LCD-3

 

I got a LCD-2 at the moment which I really love and wouldnt want to get rid of, Also i'd love to try the Stax headphones but they're quite expensive. When I read numerous posts about the LCD-3 I got excited, I get to keep the LCD sound and get the closest thing to to an SR 009? Ofcourse im a bit skeptic and struggling with alot of questions now and I really hope (ex) SR and LCD owners can help me with.

 

Im trying to get an idea of how well some of the LCD-3 character compares to the SR 009, to help me get an idea it would also help if I can compare it with my LCD-2 (latest bamboo rev.)

 

1) How is LCD-3 bass compared to SR 009 and how is LCD-3 bass compared to LCD-2 bass

2) How is soundstage and imaging on LCD-3 vs sr 009 and is soundstage and imaging on LCD-3 vs LCD-2 ?

3) How open do the SR-009 sound vs the LCD-3 and do they leak as much sound as LCD's ?

4) Which other headphone(s) would come close to the SR 009 that would cost around the same of a LCD-3 ?

 

If there's anything else you guys like to add for comparision please do :)

 

If you dont know the Stax but can tell me these LCD-2 vs LCD-3 differences I mentioned that would help alot too

Thanks in advance for the input guys beerchug.gif

 

 

1.  Both SR009 and LCD3 extend as far down as you can hear (~20 Hz).  LCD3 bass has more impact than just about any other HP out there, and SR009 bass has a lot of impact for an electrostat.  LCD3 also has significantly more bass in terms of quantity, not as neutral as the SR009 which doesn't really emphasize any part of the FR.  Bass quality between the two is far apart; LCD3 has issues with being a bit atonal and the SR009 just digs out so much more texture/information.  The sound quality is a bit worse on the LCD2s than the LCD3s, but if I were to buy one Audeze headphone it'd probably be a used LCD2rev2.

 

2.  Soundstaging on the SR009 is much larger than the Audeze headphones.  There's way more air between instruments - the Audeze sound very artificial in this regard.  Soundstage size on SR009 is well above average, soundstage size on the Audeze is a bit smaller than average.  Imaging on the SR009 is way more precise as well.  SR009 and SR007 image better than any headphones (Qualia is probably up there as well once fitted nicely), but the Audeze aren't bad at imaging by any means.  They are also above average in this regard, though headphones with smaller soundstages tend to do pretty well with imaging precision.

 

3.  SR009 sounds like an open headphone, the Audeze sound more like closed headphones.  SR009 will leak a lot since the drivers are dipolar and there's not really anything on the backside to block sound.  

 

4.  SR007, and it's significantly better than the LCD3.  It sounds somewhere between the SR009 and LCD3: it has the speed/detail/effortlessness of the SR009 but has a bit more bass emphasis and a tonal signature more similar to the LCD3 in most setups.

post #33 of 153
If anything, I would say the hd800 is closer to a poor mans 009.
Edited by KingStyles - 6/14/12 at 11:22pm
post #34 of 153

What about the Fostex TH900?

post #35 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoax View Post

1) How is LCD-3 bass compared to SR 009 and how is LCD-3 bass compared to LCD-2 bass
2) How is soundstage and imaging on LCD-3 vs sr 009 and is soundstage and imaging on LCD-3 vs LCD-2 ?
3) How open do the SR-009 sound vs the LCD-3 and do they leak as much sound as LCD's ?
4) Which other headphone(s) would come close to the SR 009 that would cost around the same of a LCD-3 ?

If there's anything else you guys like to add for comparision please do smily_headphones1.gif

If you dont know the Stax but can tell me these LCD-2 vs LCD-3 differences I mentioned that would help alot too
Thanks in advance for the input guys beerchug.gif

1. Bloated, inarticulate, and flabby. The 009s trump them badly in terms of precision, quality, and speed. You get the amount the source asks, no more and no less.
2. No comparison, soundstage and imaging are far superior with the 009s. It's like comparing 480i SD video to 1080p HD.
3. Both leak lots of sound.
4. I love the 007 Mk1s, they're my favorite cans. They have less peaky treble and more lush mids, while their bass is of very similar quality. Even the "lowly" Koss ESP/950s crush the LCD-2/3s, in almost all respects.

LCDs are simply overrated and reserved for bassheads who want to spend a great deal of money satisfying their desire for quantity, at the expense of everything else. Want bass that will thump your melon? Don't spend $1k-2k. Get some M-Audio Q40s for $130, then grab a set of Koss ESP/950s (~$650) for more critical listening. Your retirement planner will thank you. smily_headphones1.gif

PS. However, if you really just want to go hog-wild, get a nice set of SR-007 Mk1s and a SRM-717. I run that combo and it's bloody fantastic with about everything.

All that is IMO, of course. wink.gif
post #36 of 153

What about the JVC Victor DX-1000? 

post #37 of 153

seems to me that you are exaggerating about the audeze´s.

i know two things:

1) the audeze need a very good amplifier for 100% performance

2) after one hour of listenig session, i have been listening fatigue with the 009(oh yes, 8000€ setup)

but i know that sr-009 play very well

post #38 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by alota View Post

seems to me that you are exaggerating about the audeze´s.
i know two things:
1) the audeze need a very good amplifier for 100% performance
2) after one hour of listenig session, i have been listening fatigue with the 009(oh yes, 8000€ setup)
but i know that sr-009 play very well

I'm not. To me they're just a big muddy mess, way too dark and bassy. That was with a rather bright-sounding Lyr.
post #39 of 153

No... the Audeze’s are great well amped, especially out of a Beta22 wink_face.gif  The SR-007 Mk1s are clearly better in every aspect. 

 

post #40 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post


I'm not. To me they're just a big muddy mess, way too dark and bassy. That was with a rather bright-sounding Lyr.

i´m sorry: you are is general, is not referring to you specifically

post #41 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawaiiancerveza View Post

What about the JVC Victor DX-1000? 

i love this headphone with my amplifier but need some cure.

but i think that this topic is outside the context of this thread.

if you want, send me a pm

post #42 of 153

I think the SR007 and HE-6 are a better comparison to the LCD-3 and 2.2.  n3rdling's post did a nice job summing up a lot of the weaknesses of the LCD-3 as a high priced headphone, and those weaknesses are pretty glaring to anyone who has spent a lot of time with the SR009 and SR007.  It's hard to find good things to say about the LCD-3 since it's a pretty far distance away from the qualities the SR009 excels at.

 

I've only met a handful of people who really like both the LCDs and the SR007/009.  The signatures are so different between the two sets of headphones that it's not a great comparison.  If you really like the SR009, then KingStyles' suggestion of the HD800 is worth looking into.  If you prefer the LCD, try a SR007 through one of the more powerful electrostat amps, or a properly amped HE500/HE5LE/HE6.  I've listened to a lot of peoples' Audeze and Hifiman setups, and it seems like the Audeze does well with a greater range of headphone gear, but the Hifiman line has a higher performance threshold if you're willing to do some research into amping.  The bass on the LCD is pretty awesome at first, especially coming from Grados and Senns, but over time the low-end lack of texture and monotonous coloration can get dull.

 

You can get a used HE-6 in the same price category as a used LCD-2.1, and the HE-6 will sound far better with just a modest speaker amp.


Edited by Elysian - 6/15/12 at 1:22am
post #43 of 153

I've never heard the LCD -2 or 3 but last year my headphone system was SR-007mk1's + SRM-007t + Esosteric x-03se and to my ears the 007's sounded veiled to which I feel the other two were probably responsible for. Since I got the K-01 IMO it will improve the SQ of any headphone using any amp because until I receive the BHSE to drive my SR-009's, I'm only using the K-01 with my Pico Slim + Shure se535's and the SQ I'm getting is truly amazing, in fact I think my current combo sounds better than my previous combo did, but not airy.

post #44 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post


I'm not. To me they're just a big muddy mess, way too dark and bassy. That was with a rather bright-sounding Lyr.

 

The Lyr is the likely problem here...

 

I was disappointed with the LCD-3  at first on my gear (Audiolab M-DAC, SPL Phonitor), they sounded veiled with recessed mids and lackluster bass.

It wasn't until I got the Cavalli Audio Liquid Fire amp that I started to enjoy the LCD's.

After upgrading the tubes, power cable, and even the electrical sockets of my room, I really have to say that my pair of LCD-3's have made HUGE improvements across the board!

 

Now the LCD-3 sounds like I'm sitting within the 1st or 2nd row of a concert, whereas my HD 800's give a presentation of sitting maybe 15-20 rows back.

Both are excellent, just different points of view so to speak.

 

The LCD-3's are quite picky about how they are powered - but once you get it right, they are very rewarding headphones.  Certainly world class!


Edited by Jamiee - 6/15/12 at 8:32am
post #45 of 153

LCD3s are a textbook case of garbage-in-garbage out.

With the Pinnacle or B52(& upgraded tubes), the LCD3 bass is very transparent and detailed, and all the pieces of the sound stand out nicely, and all is well.

With Headroom max or headphone output from a preamp or CD player, yes, it's a muddy mess.

 

No, even these amps will not make an inherently flawed headphone sound right, in fact, they may even accentuate its flaws.

But if you feed it right, the LCD3 sounds top of the heap to me.


Edited by rgs9200m - 6/15/12 at 10:04am
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