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post #76 of 284

Logic says:  High is higher than mid.  Mid is higher than low.  If there is an item, such as the LCD2, which has a tier above it (both in reviewed performance and price); by definition, it is no longer high, it is mid.  

 

The end.


Edited by TWIFOSP - 6/25/12 at 12:49pm
post #77 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWIFOSP View Post

Logic says:  High is higher than mid.  Mid is higher than low.  If there is an item, such as the LCD2, which has a tier above it (both in reviewed performance and price); by definition, it is no longer high, it is mid.  

 

The end.

 

Well, I don't think it's quite that simple. To say that a $50K Boulder or Vitus amplifier is "mid-fi" because there are $100K+ amplifiers from companies like DarTZeel would be silly. I think the term "mid-fi" should have more to do with performance than just a price bracket. Headphones like the DT880 or the K701 are clearly mid-fi - better performers than the entry level stuff, but there's clearly an obvious space between them and the high-end stuff. Would you lump the LCD-2 in with them as a "mid-fi" can? I wouldn't. How much space is there, performance wise, between the LCD-2r2 and LCD-3, really? Would you say it's as much as the difference between a headphone like the DT880 and the LCD-2?

post #78 of 284

So do you not think that there is a tier of performance above the LCD2?  That all improvements, whether based on opinion or measurements, are near enough as makes no difference?  I don't understand the resistance to classifying something as a "higher tier" than the LCD2 at all.

post #79 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrspeakers View Post

 

The T50 is an orthodynamic (magnetic planar) driver.  For a lot of reasons, orthos can produce really great sound and they are super reliable and can handle huge power.

 

So going off this, you can sort of say the drivers provide the raw energy and the mod modifies how this energy is outputted am I correct?

post #80 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWIFOSP View Post

So do you not think that there is a tier of performance above the LCD2?  That all improvements, whether based on opinion or measurements, are near enough as makes no difference?  I don't understand the resistance to classifying something as a "higher tier" than the LCD2 at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is a tier above lcd2 just like there's  a tier above 40,000 speakers(provided they sound like 40,000.00 speakers). Does that mean 40,000.00 speakers are no longer highend? Because there are 100,000.00(and way above that) speakers that sound a lot better than typical 40,000.00 speakers. Imo high end headphones qualifies headphones that sounds better than 80-90% of all headphones in existence.  So for me lcd3, and he6 classify as high end because they sound better to me than the r10s, l3000, and 007's which in an above post were qualified as high end headphones.

 

There are contradictory posts being made. On one camp, someone post that the lcd2 are midfi because of how they sound, but there's another post about r10s and the like being high and because of how much they cost. For me midtier headphones are mid tier because of how they sound, and for me both the lcd3 and he6 deserves to be high end because I haven't heard none better....maybe just as good, but not better. So if the he6 and lcd3 are midtier, then so are the 007's and r10 since I prefer both to those. But this thread is already way off track, so I'm leaving it as that.


Edited by moodyrn - 6/25/12 at 6:36pm
post #81 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkong View Post

So going off this, you can sort of say the drivers provide the raw energy and the mod modifies how this energy is outputted am I correct?

 

Good enough!  The driver is great, it's just getting it in the optimal environment that matters...

post #82 of 284

You can save money and time and get say an older pair of properly functioning STAX, say a pair of SR-5 and get higher quality sound then can be extracted from the Fostex phones.

post #83 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkong View Post

I'm actually very curious about what makes the T50RP's drivers so special. Why not mod other drivers?

 

They've got some of the fastest decay through the mids and treble.  You mostly just need to mod them to clean up the effects of the cheap plastic enclosure.

post #84 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnetar View Post

You can save money and time and get say an older pair of properly functioning STAX, say a pair of SR-5 and get higher quality sound then can be extracted from the Fostex phones.

Now tell us, did you mod your STAX to be closed back? Furthermore, have you done mods to "your" Fostex?

post #85 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysian View Post

I'm not sure why purrin's getting criticism for calling the LCD2 mid-fi.  That's exactly where I'd put it, too.  I think most of us break categories up into 3s (low/mid/high) and 5s (low/lower-mid/mid/upper-mid/high) to file our experiences and perceptions.  Most of us probably have different weightings on what constitutes each of those categories.  I place detail and resolution near the top of my list, so the only headphones I've heard that I'd call high-end are the SR007, SR009, and HE90.  From my experience, going from each of those headphones is a sidegrade, where you end up getting some things and losing others, but they all net fairly even to me.  A lot of people factor price into their categorizations.

 

In the mid-fi category are the LCD2, RS1i, HE500, etc., with the HE-6 and LCD3 (maybe) in upper-mid-fi.  Low-fi compromises the majority of headphones on the market.

 

Just categorize things however makes you happy and fits your world view.  This hobby isn't exactly objective.

 

 

lol wow... all i have is low fi... frown.gif

post #86 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnetar View Post

You can save money and time and get say an older pair of properly functioning STAX, say a pair of SR-5 and get higher quality sound then can be extracted from the Fostex phones.

 

That's REALLY arguable. Have you heard some of the best T50RP mods like the Paradox or Mad Dog, or are you just assuming that? Also, it's not exactly like there's an endless supply of '70s and '80s Stax phones lying around. The more readily available Lambdas are great in a lot of ways, but they are FAR from perfect headphones.

 

The SR-009 might be considered close to perfect, but it's also more than 10X the cost of the Mad Dog, and you also need to spend at least $3000 for an amp for it. Don't forget your $3000+ source, either.

post #87 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddragon View Post

lol wow... all i have is low fi... frown.gif

 

All that matters is what sounds good to you :)  I do most of my listening on cheap headphones and speakers out of convenience, and for low-volume casual listening, diminishing returns kicks in pretty early.  Music's fun to listen to, whether it's through a $50 pair of headphones or FM radio, or a great Stax rig.  Some people get too hung-up on what others think about their gear.

 

Anyway, there are plenty of people here who like the LCDs more than the upper-end Stax.  Criticism here is pretty tame compared to the speaker world.

post #88 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveBSC View Post

 

That's REALLY arguable. Have you heard some of the best T50RP mods like the Paradox or Mad Dog, or are you just assuming that? Also, it's not exactly like there's an endless supply of '70s and '80s Stax phones lying around. The more readily available Lambdas are great in a lot of ways, but they are FAR from perfect headphones.

 

The SR-009 might be considered close to perfect, but it's also more than 10X the cost of the Mad Dog, and you also need to spend at least $3000 for an amp for it. Don't forget your $3000+ source, either.

The mods I did were extensive enough to know they aren't even close to stats and not worth pursuing further. There is a STAX SR5 on ebay right now with energizer for 169 buy it now. You can buy a decent amp for under a hundred bucks if you don't mind using an older integrated or receiver. The SR5 really sounds great with push pull el84s.

 

Not my auction - http://www.ebay.com/itm/180907595887?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_530wt_945


Edited by Magnetar - 6/26/12 at 1:27pm
post #89 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxper View Post

Now tell us, did you mod your STAX to be closed back? Furthermore, have you done mods to "your" Fostex?

No and yes.

post #90 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnetar View Post

The mods I did were extensive enough to know they aren't even close to stats and not worth pursuing further. There is a STAX SR5 on ebay right now with energizer for 169 buy it now. You can buy a decent amp for under a hundred bucks if you don't mind using an older integrated or receiver. The SR5 really sounds great with push pull el84s.

 

Not my auction - http://www.ebay.com/itm/180907595887?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_530wt_945

 

There's always preference and taste, and there's nothing wrong with preferring Stax.  They're well regarded for a reason.

 

However, to say you have attempted some number of mods and then make a generalization that Stax is always better is not supportable.  There are dozens of mods and even very minor changes can have a huge effect on overall sound with a given configuration, and the mods have a huge variety of sound (and accuracy).

 

Compared to your mod, whatever it may have been, your statement is of course valid, you have a preference.  However, compared to ALL mods, and for all music and tastes?   

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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › Is it true that modded T50RP's (specifically LFF's Paradox mod) is comparable to high end headphones such as the LCD2?