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Sennheiser HD700 Review - Page 6

post #76 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi View Post

Because a  sub $1k chain is less laughable.

...

 

The whole point of mid-fi cans is to attract people who want to spend in that pricerange and get the best sound possible, therefore a sub$1k chain for a mid-fi can is much less laughable than $1k+ chains.

post #77 of 214

thanks for the review and comparisons!

post #78 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

Ring radiator tweeters are an old technology-- just as electrostats and planar magnetics.  I don't think Sennheiser could hold a true patent on it.

 

It depends on how the prior patent (now long expired, I'm sure) was worded.   It would be more than simple for an even barely competent patent lawyer to draft an original use scenereo for the first headphone ring driver.  Guaranteed there's a Senn patent on it, and since it is genuinely the first headphone to use such a full range driver, not just a high frequency driver, it would be darn hard to get a court to rule against it. 

 

And EU patent law is even more bizzarre than US patent law, especially in DE wink.gif

 

That said, the fact that HD700 doesn't have a ring, or doesn't have one anymore, probably tells us more than we need to know about how cost ineffective they are to produce and another good reason why no one else is making them.

post #79 of 214
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KG Jag View Post

 

Good--that's the version (I have the Pro) that interests me.

 

Ooops, didn't see your response until now.

 

Subjectively, the DT880-250 sounds very neutral without an anomalies in the frequency response until the treble. At moderate listening volumes, it's OK (just my opinion, so please no one get all worked up). However, it's a difficult headphone for me to use at louder volumes of 85db or higher with most popular music recordings of the past thirty years. Despite the DT880's hot treble, the cohesiveness between the midrange and treble is very good whereas the HD700 appears to have a suckout in the midrange somewhere. The DT880-250's treble sounds less harsh and smoother than the HD700's.

 

The HD700 produces more weight behind each note compared the DT880-250. I would hesitate to say it sounds cleaner because as you know the, DT880 is very clean sounding: There is no fuzziness, muddiness, or dirtyness near the sound floor - a good "blackground" so to speak. The HD700 does sound a little bit more clear. What I mean by this is that the HD700 reproduces more defined, distinct, and articulated sounds. This could be largely attribute to its unique frequency response. Finally, the HD700 does appear to be more capable of digging down and extracting more low level information compared to the the DT880.

 

Here's an FR comparison I just ran:

dt880r.txt.jpg

HD700 (green) vs DT880 (red)

 

7da0edb6_hd700l.txt.jpeg dt880r.txt.jpg

HD700 vs DT880-250 CSD Waterfall Plot


Edited by purrin - 6/13/12 at 3:06pm
post #80 of 214

Thanks--my favorite popular recordings are now mostly 35 to 50 + years old.


Edited by KG Jag - 6/13/12 at 5:12pm
post #81 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

The review stands as it is - it really doesn't need the measurements. I could easily replace references to specific frequencies such as 5kHz with terms such as upper midrange. But that leads to other issues, e.g. Stereophile reviewers (who don't use the same definitions as those in pro audio) consider upper midrange around 1kHz, people will complain about lack of precision and vagueness, etc. Trust me, I've been down this road before. I'm damned if I do and I'm damned if I don't.

The random use of jargon is the problem, even each little corner of head-fi has its own lexicon. Usually it's not until I hear a headphone that I can finally relate to verbose descriptions of sharpness or veils or what have you. Graphs are useful because you at least know what to expect. In the best case scenario an ugly stretch of a graph will simply not sound as bad as it looks, at least to you. Nevertheless, looking at a measurement and identifying potential trouble spots takes seconds, far longer than reading a review from a reviewer you've not crafted a mental decoder ring to interpret.

Personal experience of listening to a headphone is the final arbiter, but it's useful to know when you don't even have to bother. Given the treble sensitivity common across a large contingent of head-fiers, seeing the 700's triple peaks is an easy way for them to know not to get their hopes up.

Which is why I'm always puzzled when running across something like,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumonron View Post

to attempt to scientifically prove a headphone's complexities is futile.

What does that even mean?
Edited by anetode - 6/13/12 at 5:20pm
post #82 of 214

I like your and LFFs anti hype sigs

post #83 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

 

Ooops, didn't see your response until now.

 

Subjectively, the DT880-250 sounds very neutral without an anomalies in the frequency response until the treble. At moderate listening volumes, it's OK (just my opinion, so please no one get all worked up). However, it's a difficult headphone for me to use at louder volumes of 85db or higher with most popular music recordings of the past thirty years. Despite the DT880's hot treble, the cohesiveness between the midrange and treble is very good whereas the HD700 appears to have a suckout in the midrange somewhere. The DT880-250's treble sounds less harsh and smoother than the HD700's.

 

The HD700 produces more weight behind each note compared the DT880-250. I would hesitate to say it sounds cleaner because as you know the, DT880 is very clean sounding: There is no fuzziness, muddiness, or dirtyness near the sound floor - a good "blackground" so to speak. The HD700 does sound a little bit more clear. What I mean by this is that the HD700 reproduces more defined, distinct, and articulated sounds. This could be largely attribute to its unique frequency response. Finally, the HD700 does appear to be more capable of digging down and extracting more low level information compared to the the DT880.

 

Here's an FR comparison I just ran:

dt880r.txt.jpg

HD700 (green) vs DT880 (red)

 

7da0edb6_hd700l.txt.jpeg dt880r.txt.jpg

HD700 vs DT880-250 CSD Waterfall Plot

 

Remarkably similar graphs, though with some nasty harsh peaks made very evident on HD700.  Still I don't know what possessed Sennheiser to go chasing Beyer's (or Grado's) sound as though their competition wasn't already offering that.

 

Worse, while it's all fine and good to say "it has a big better detail retrieval and articulation than DT880" what boggles the mind is the casual "yeah it does some things a little better" way it must be said, when comparing a $350 headphone versus a $1000 headphone. 

 

Maybe it really is the right product at the wrong price.  Perhaps it should have competed in the $350-550 range instead of the $1000 range and been "a better DT880."  As it stands it's next to the T1 and T5p which are already "a better DT880."

post #84 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Llloyd View Post

I like your and LFFs anti hype sigs

Most of HF probably thinks of team anti-hype like this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ivSf0-QQfw#t=01m28s

post #85 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio_head View Post

Most of HF probably thinks of team anti-hype like this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ivSf0-QQfw#t=01m28s

 

Skinny, blonde comedians?

post #86 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

 

A chair?

Yah. That's what I noticed first ...

post #87 of 214
What chair?
post #88 of 214
That hd700 is easier to drive than hd650 and hd800 definitely makes it attractive. Wish I could buy hd800, but can't offord the expensive system to drive it. It was a very helpful review, thanks.
post #89 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacey View Post

I appreciate that you've spent time and effort testing and writing your thoughts on the HD700's but it is just your opinion and techniques. I'm sure the designer has a completely different set of results too. So whos wrong?**

 

 

 

**no one normal_smile%20.gif

 

All I'm saying is people need to hear them, ideally with their own equipment, not judge them without even listening to them.

+1

post #90 of 214

I got to hear these today.

 

I don't think they sounded too bad ranked against all the headphones I've ever heard.  Unfortunately for the HD700 I think most other headphones suffer from varying degrees of fail so there's not a high bar for it to overcome.  I think they're tuned for a more "fun" consumer sort of sound.  The sacrifice detail for color at both ends with thick sounding bass and peaky treble which is akin to over sharpening something in photoshop.  It looks cleared and more detailed at first but a closer look reveals all the information that's been discared.  The mids are pretty lackluster for a Senn as well.  The 598, 600, 650, and 800 all beat it in a smooth and natural presentation of female vocals which is something I'm picky about.

 

I think they look, feel, and sound like they should be slotted between the 598 and the 600 and given a gimmicky "Xtreme" marketing campaign as the "cool" Senn or something.

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