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post #76 of 123
6/19/12 at 7:15am

There are cables that'll fix that, or just solid adapters. Unless you've got fancy cables you're using instead I suppose, then I understand somewhat.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

Or how about your unable to hook your gear up because you only have balanced outs from the source.  I bet your know the difference then.

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post #77 of 123
6/19/12 at 7:20am

I disagree. Whenever I plug my headphones in a hole I've found in the back yard, they don't sound good at all. Come to think of, I don't recall their making any sound at all. I think they do know, and don't like it, so please stop spreading misinformed opinions.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Eddy View Post

Funny thing is, headphones don't know a balanced output from a hole in the ground. Neither does anyone else for that matter when you really get down to it.

 

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post #78 of 123
6/19/12 at 7:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Eddy View Post

 

Except I was talking about the output of a headphone amp.

 

se

Gotch Steve,

 

The original question to Alex was about balanced inputs to the amp and balanced outputs from the amp because of source and headphone gear that's balanced only.

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post #79 of 123
6/19/12 at 7:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwilson View Post

Whenever I plug my headphones in a hole I've found in the back yard, they don't sound good at all.

 

Well, that explains the ants.

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post #80 of 123
6/19/12 at 7:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by runeight View Post

However, many can argue that a balanced amp topology is better (eliminated high currents in the ground circuit...

 

That balanced amps "bypass ground" was a myth started by Morsel years ago when balanced headphone amps started coming onto the scene. Output currents flow through the ground node in balanced amps as well.

 

Quote:
...less noise because of CMRR...

 

That depends.

 

In the headphone world, "balanced" is typically used to describe what would otherwise be referred to as "bridged," i.e. two otherwise identical circuits bridged together (see gurus' description of what he calls "truly balanced" above). In this instance, CMRR is zero. To reject common-mode noise, you need a differential input. The "balanced" input of a pair of bridged circuits is not differential and any common-mode noise will simply be amplified and passed along to its output.

 

Quote:
...more output for the same rails...

 

That can certainly be a plus for portable devices that have to rely on relatively low voltage battery power. But in an AC powered device, your rails can be whatever you want them to be.

 

se

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post #81 of 123
6/19/12 at 7:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwilson View Post

I disagree. Whenever I plug my headphones in a hole I've found in the back yard, they don't sound good at all. Come to think of, I don't recall their making any sound at all. I think they do know, and don't like it, so please stop spreading misinformed opinions.

 

 

How do you know they don't like it if they don't say anything? I certainly hope you're not having conversations with your headphones.

 

se

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post #82 of 123
6/19/12 at 7:54am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Eddy View Post

 

That balanced amps "bypass ground" was a myth started by Morsel years ago when balanced headphone amps started coming onto the scene. Output currents flow through the ground node in balanced amps as well.

 

 

That depends.

 

In the headphone world, "balanced" is typically used to describe what would otherwise be referred to as "bridged," i.e. two otherwise identical circuits bridged together (see gurus' description of what he calls "truly balanced" above). In this instance, CMRR is zero. To reject common-mode noise, you need a differential input. The "balanced" input of a pair of bridged circuits is not differential and any common-mode noise will simply be amplified and passed along to its output.

 

 

That can certainly be a plus for portable devices that have to rely on relatively low voltage battery power. But in an AC powered device, your rails can be whatever you want them to be.

 

se

 

You notice that I said "many can argue". It doesn't mean that they are right.

 

In any case, I think what is really on people's minds here is the interconnects and convenience not the actual amp topology. I think this a more useful discussion unless, of course, you want to continue to press the topology aspect of the conversation.

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post #83 of 123
6/19/12 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by runeight View Post

You notice that I said "many can argue". It doesn't mean that they are right.

 

 

Yes, I noticed that. I was only responding to what you said some would argue, not what I thought you were necessarily arguing.

 

Quote:

In any case, I think what is really on people's minds here is the interconnects and convenience not the actual amp topology. I think this a more useful discussion unless, of course, you want to continue to press the topology aspect of the conversation.

 

Kind of hard to tell just what's on peoples' minds as the "balanced" tangent started out with someone asking about balanced outputs because he'd wired all his headphones for balanced outputs.

 

But if we're talking inputs and interconnects, just slap some input trannies in there and it can readily accept both balanced and unbalanced sources. Then add a 4 pin XLR on the output so those with headphones wired for balanced can plug in as well

 

Problems solved. Let's all go out for a beer! beerchug.gif

 

se

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post #84 of 123
6/19/12 at 8:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post


I think you're kinda wrong here. The WA22 had "balanced" outs that weren't truly balanced outs and guess what? They sounded the same as single ended outs.

X2

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post #85 of 123
6/19/12 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwilson View Post

Balanced, schmalanced. If it sounds good and you're happy, none's the wiser.

X infinity

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post #86 of 123
6/19/12 at 11:32am
Thread Starter 

LOL. Got it.

 

Truth is, the only conversation about the LF we can have this moment is about interconnects and convenience because Rev 2 won't be balanced or even bridged. But, there is always Rev 3 or 4. :)

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post #87 of 123
6/19/12 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwilson View Post

Come to think of, I don't recall their making any sound at all.

 

Try a pair of more sensitive headphones.


Edited by grokit - 6/19/12 at 12:21pm
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post #88 of 123
6/19/12 at 12:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwilson View Post

Whenever I plug my headphones in a hole I've found in the back yard, they don't sound good at all. Come to think of, I don't recall their making any sound at all.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by grokit View Post

Try a pair of more sensitive headphones.

 

Well, at least we know they're properly grounded.

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post #89 of 123
6/19/12 at 1:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by runeight View Post

LOL. Got it.

 

Truth is, the only conversation about the LF we can have this moment is about interconnects and convenience because Rev 2 won't be balanced or even bridged. But, there is always Rev 3 or 4. :)

mad.gif angry_face.gif frown.gif confused.gif confused_face(1).gif

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post #90 of 123
6/19/12 at 8:37pm
Thread Starter 

Well, what I meant was ... on the topic of Balanced or SE, the current LF is strictly SE so for Rev 2 it only makes sense to talk about interconnects.

 

But, for later Revs we can discuss whatever you guys want to have.

 

And, of course, anything else that's on your minds.

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Cavalli Audio creates audio headphone amplifiers that dynamically transform your listening experience. Cavalli Audio

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