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post #571 of 1185

I'm told the First Watt amps and headphones work together, the caveat being IT HAS TO BE A BALANCED CONNECTION or poof ;)

 

I would take the LCD-2 for the Soloist.

 

Ideally I want all the check marks BUT it's been my experience that too dynamic turns to shouty, too transparent turns to top tilted.  Resolution is free, too much doesn't exist.

 

The LCD-3 is less punchy and has less treble presence than the LCD-2.  Smoother treble, but less of it.  Listening to the Soloist on something with no punch and low treble presence ends in a high resolution lifeless experience.  The LCD-2 injects some heat and drive into the equation.  Mind you the Rev1 and the LCD-3 are fairly close in tonally balance.

 

My Q cables for the F3 should be here Wednesday so I'll either be in the market for a pre-amp Thursday or selling the F3 ;)

post #572 of 1185
Quote:
Originally Posted by zilch0md View Post

When Audeze says their headphones can handle 15W, are they literally saying 15Wpc into 50-Ohms or are they saying 15Wpc into the standard 8-Ohms?

 

Thanks,

 

Mike

 

15W into 60ohm for 130dB =)  The Rev1 and early LCD-3 was 50, everything since has been 60.

post #573 of 1185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post

I'm told the First Watt amps and headphones work together, the caveat being IT HAS TO BE A BALANCED CONNECTION or poof ;)

 

I would take the LCD-2 for the Soloist.

 

Ideally I want all the check marks BUT it's been my experience that too dynamic turns to shouty, too transparent turns to top tilted.  Resolution is free, too much doesn't exist.

 

The LCD-3 is less punchy and has less treble presence than the LCD-2.  Smoother treble, but less of it.  Listening to the Soloist on something with no punch and low treble presence ends in a high resolution lifeless experience.  The LCD-2 injects some heat and drive into the equation.  Mind you the Rev1 and the LCD-3 are fairly close in tonally balance.

 

My Q cables for the F3 should be here Wednesday so I'll either be in the market for a pre-amp Thursday or selling the F3 ;)

 

I was looking into pre amps as well.  If the PWD2 or the m51 don't work good as pre amps then I'm in the market. 

 

I was going to ask SWA if he can build a balanced a20.  All other good pre amps are so damn expensive.  How about the balanced Bryston pre amp? 

post #574 of 1185

My problem with the idea of using a pre-amp is headphones, HE-6 excluded, are pre-amp level devices so feeding the F3 with my B22 seems pointless ;)  a20 is small but after the o22, case, pot and everything else... It's not much less than a single ended B22.

 

Can say this, the PWD doesn't work as a pre-amp for the Dynaudio and those have a -10dB pad for the input.  Can't imagine how useless it would be on 0dB or worse, +4dB :O  The Dynaudio has a gain of 14dB

 

Guess I find out for sure Wednesday.

post #575 of 1185

Would that be the same for a balanced a20 or a10 whatever AMB has now?

 

I guess this would be the a10  - but in a balanced build what would be different?  I don't need that LCd either.

 

 

 

post #576 of 1185

Would need 1 o22, 4 a20, 4 gang pot, input and output jacks, wiring, case, mounts... Luckily the F3 is single ended ;)  I need an output select switch though because I use power monitors too.  And to add insult to injury the input impedance is low enough that passive would be hard :(

post #577 of 1185

alright guys, i'm getting a little bit antsy.. hear me out for a sec, let me know if i'm thinking irrationally.

 

i think i want to sell pretty much everything i have and get an lcd-3 and soloist. i've been itching to upgrade for a while but haven't pulled the trigger. i always thought you should buy your end game first because you'll end up wasting money on the journey. oh well, too late... so, my system is way too bright for my ears. i love a lot of things about it, but i can't get over the fatigue. i need something smooth and not etchy. i cannot accept sibilance or any harshness in the treble anymore, i'm sick of it. 

 

to sell [hopefully getting ~$1250 for all of it]:

Schiit Lyr w/ 60's telefunken ecc88

Hifiman EF-5

Hifiman HE-5

Triple fi 10s

Klipsch Custom 3s

Ortofon eq-5

*SA5000s [would not sell unless i'd get close to retail. theyre just too amazing to give away, and will soon be rare]

 

to buy:

lcd-3

soloist

 

as a dac i'd be using my trusty bifrost until later down the line. please consider my query with the knowledge that i'd be using the bifrost w/ the lcd-3/soloist and not upgrading that until much later down the road (maybe statement?)

 

so what do you think? my main music is for example artists like Wilco, Alice in Chains, Cash, Sufjan Stevens, Grateful Dead, and Clapton. Do you think the lcd/soloist could be my answer? I'm very hesitant to just buy an lcd-2 to use with my lyr. i'm afraid it'll just be a "meh" and i'll be back at square one. any suggestions/comments would be more than appreciated


Edited by Uncle00Jesse - 1/14/13 at 5:18pm
post #578 of 1185

No just no.  Get the LCD-2 and Soloist and the Gungnir or some other DAC upgrade.  LCD-3 and Soloist was just too dead for me.  The LCD-3 is very very picky about gear and not just quality level but tonal balance and dynamic level.

post #579 of 1185

Hi Uncle00Jesse,

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle00Jesse View Post

[snip]

 

so, my system is way too bright for my ears. i love a lot of things about it, but i can't get over the fatigue. i need something smooth and not etchy. i cannot accept sibilance or any harshness in the treble anymore, i'm sick of it. 

 

[snip]

 

so what do you think? my main music is for example artists like Wilco, Alice in Chains, Cash, Sufjan Stevens, Grateful Dead, and Clapton. Do you think the lcd/soloist could be my answer? I'm very hesitant to just buy an lcd-2 to use with my lyr. i'm afraid it'll just be a "meh" and i'll be back at square one. any suggestions/comments would be more than appreciated

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post

No just no.  Get the LCD-2 and Soloist and the Gungnir or some other DAC upgrade.  LCD-3 and Soloist was just too dead for me.  The LCD-3 is very very picky about gear and not just quality level but tonal balance and dynamic level.

 

For you, based on your description of your tastes, I'm very comfortable with seconding Solude's recommendation:  Get the LCD-2 and Soloist.  

 

Did you know The Cable Company, offers a 30-day return policy with no restocking fee?  You pay only for shipping both ways.  And even if you've never done business with them before, you can take advantage of their "Frequent Flyer" program, for which sales totaling $800 to $999, earn an immediate 8% discount.  Add some custom cables to the same order, to push it over $1000, and you'd get a 9% discount on the whole order.  I don't work for them, nor have I done business with them, I just think they have the best deal going for someone who's thinking about buying either the LCD-2 or the LCD-3, but who has never heard either headphone before.

 

For a while now, I've been swapping the Beyerdyamic T1 and LCD-2 between the Soloist and DACmini CX, trying to decide which combination of amp and headphone sounds best of the four possibilities. 

 

I can't make any comment about the LCD-3 - I've never heard it - but I can tell you that if I had to live with one headphone, of the LCD-2 and the T1, I've decided it would be the LCD-2.  It works better on both amps and with more genres of music, where the T1 "needs" the Soloist to suppress exactly those traits that you are eschewing and it only barely manages to take the edge off the T1.  And the T1 just isn't as "all-purpose" as the LCD-2.

 

With the Soloist and T1, I still find myself paying attention to how the T1 is performing, listening for recording artifacts and such, asking myself if the recording is worthy, instead of really listening to the music, as I can readily do with the Soloist and LCD-2, with any genre.  I certainly like the way the LCD-2 sounds with the Soloist and I think this combination could satisfy a LOT of people.   

 

In that sense, the T1 sounds a bit like Solude's description of the LCD-3 - finicky in terms of synergy with different amps, and boring or lifeless, compared to the punch and authority of the LCD-2.  It's only Solude's having said the LCD-3 is "lifeless" that I can equate it to the T1 - which I find to be bland, for lack of a better word.  It has no spice.  But I would still like to believe that with the right amp, the LCD-3 must be something special.

 

The Soloist isn't as dark and warm as your Schiit Lyr, and it offers a lot more clarity.  I borrowed a Lyr and listened to it with my LCD-2 for an entire month while the owner was on vacation.  Don't go there.  The Lyr + LCD-2 is very "meh" as you put it - in my opinion, for its lack of micro-detail - the Lyr deprives all but the sloppiest of headphones of what they need to image well, and that's even with some expensive Mullard's I purchased on others' recommendation.  My pejorative for the Lyr is "Smear" - as in smear the details.

 

Based on my comparisons of the T1 and LCD-2 on the Soloist, I'm convinced the LCD-2 cannot reproduce every last dot and tittle of detail that the Soloist is rendering.  The LCD-2 is not the last word in resolving power - but that's a good thing - because you seem to be seeking a sweet, smooth, non-fatiguing sound (to where I find my preferences evolving), not at all similar to the less forgiving, sometimes excruciatingly analytical renderings of something like the HD800 (to which the T1 is similar, but more tame).  

 

My DACmini CX is brighter than the Soloist, more neutral - and thus, in some ways, boring, compared to the analog warmth of the Soloist.

 

I apologize for all the references to the T1 and DACmini CX, but hopefully, you can tell that the LCD-2 is the more general-purpose of my two "flagship" headphones, and the Soloist is the sweeter, warmer, yet still very detailed amp (of my two desktop amps).

 

If you had said you demand a lot of "sparkle" in the treble, I would steer you away from the LCD-2 to the LCD-3 and maybe the DACmini CX.  I know a guy who has this latter combination and has often said he is done with upgrading his headphone gear thanks to this combination of LCD-3 and DACmini CX - but he's into a more neutral organic sound than what the Soloist delivers.

 

Then there's Sklyab's review of the Soloist, where he wrote that the LCD-3 is "SUPERB" with the Soloist, but I've found his tastes to be difficult to nail down.  If I had to guess, I'd say he prefers a warm, smooth sound, as with tube amps, but his current portable amp is a Meier Stepdance, which is spectacularly neutral and transparent.  Not at all warm.   So I can't be sure what he likes about the Soloist + LCD-3 combination, given Solude's opinion.  

 

I'm writing a book, here, but I want to make two more comments about the LCD-2.  First, of all the headphones I've ever spent time with, I can say that none of them come close to the LCD-2 for it's ability to sound the same at all volume levels.  With every other headphone, I find myself having to play music at least a little louder than I want to, sometimes, to get the balance I'm seeking.  I don't think of myself as a basshead - I really can't stand headphones like the Ultrasone Pro 900, that a co-worker bought recently.  That said, that I'm not into crazy amounts of bass, it seems to me that with most headphones, bass only reaches satisfying levels when I have spent half an hour or more desensitizing my ears to excessively loud mids and trebles.  Not so with the LCD-2.   

 

And on that note, comes my second point:  I firmly believe that when listening to headphones that have shelved highs, as with the LCD-2, your ears can actually acclimate to the absence of treble energy MUCH more easily than they can acclimate to excess treble energy.  It's like the difference between how our pupils can dilate to accommodate near total darkness, given a few minutes to adjust, but they cannot get used to excessive brightness no matter how long you stare at the sun!  The Audeze LCD-2's shelved highs don't seem shelved after just a few minutes of listening, coming in from the cold of a brighter headphone - especially at reasonable volumes, in a quiet environment.  I routinely listen to the LCD-2 at only the 6th or 7th step, out of 24 on the stepped attenuator.  Everything sounds wonderful at this very kind-to-the-ears volume.  There's nothing lacking in the treble.

 

Lastly, let me just say that I'm using the DACport LX (known for being neutral) as my DAC for the Soloist and LCD-2.

 

Mike

post #580 of 1185

Solude,

 

Thanks for answering my questions, above!  You've certainly paid your dues with buying, testing, selling, buying, testing, selling...  

 

I'm getting tired of it already - as I believe Uncle00Jesse is, too - but I haven't done half the work you have to get the answers.  Thank you for recommending the Soloist and LCD-2.  You have a lot of credibility, and I think your tastes are just a little "warmer" than mine, but definitely in the direction to which I have been moving.

 

Mike

post #581 of 1185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle00Jesse View Post

alright guys, i'm getting a little bit antsy.. hear me out for a sec, let me know if i'm thinking irrationally.

 

i think i want to sell pretty much everything i have and get an lcd-3 and soloist. i've been itching to upgrade for a while but haven't pulled the trigger. i always thought you should buy your end game first because you'll end up wasting money on the journey. oh well, too late... so, my system is way too bright for my ears. i love a lot of things about it, but i can't get over the fatigue. i need something smooth and not etchy. i cannot accept sibilance or any harshness in the treble anymore, i'm sick of it. 

 

to sell [hopefully getting ~$1250 for all of it]:

Schiit Lyr w/ 60's telefunken ecc88

Hifiman EF-5

Hifiman HE-5

Triple fi 10s

Klipsch Custom 3s

Ortofon eq-5

*SA5000s [would not sell unless i'd get close to retail. theyre just too amazing to give away, and will soon be rare]

 

to buy:

lcd-3

soloist

 

as a dac i'd be using my trusty bifrost until later down the line. please consider my query with the knowledge that i'd be using the bifrost w/ the lcd-3/soloist and not upgrading that until much later down the road (maybe statement?)

 

so what do you think? my main music is for example artists like Wilco, Alice in Chains, Cash, Sufjan Stevens, Grateful Dead, and Clapton. Do you think the lcd/soloist could be my answer? I'm very hesitant to just buy an lcd-2 to use with my lyr. i'm afraid it'll just be a "meh" and i'll be back at square one. any suggestions/comments would be more than appreciated

 

 

Put me down for the HE-5.  As long as they're in very, very good condition. biggrin.gif

post #582 of 1185

sorry for the OT post...

has anyone compared the soloist to the violectric v200 which seems to be widely recommended for the lcd2s? they also fall into the same price category ..

post #583 of 1185
Quote:
Originally Posted by zilch0md View Post

Hi moses1258,

 

 

 

I recently ordered this Furman 10-Amp power conditioner from an Amazon Marketplace seller for only $102.49, plus shipping:

 

 

                              Furman AC-215A 

 

 

 

 

All this for a hundred bucks...

 

 

Here's Furman's web page on the AC-215A.    The Datasheet.   And the Manual.  

 

 

 

Here's a Furman rep introducing two of their products at NAMM 2010.  Watch the whole video or skip ahead to 1:12 for his discussion of the AC-215A:

 

 

I bought the AC-215A just to protect my Soloist from line noise, over voltage, surges, etc. - I haven't been hearing any noise that must be dealt with.

 

I've decided to place the conditioner as close as possible to the Soloist, so I ordered the shortest (2-foot) 14 AWG power cord I could find - nothing special, just a very heavy-duty power cord made by Tripp-Lite:

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0027JPKIE

 

This 2-foot cord will sit between the power conditioner and the Soloist.

 

Then, between the wall outlet and the power conditioner, instead of buying an "audiophile" power cord, I just got a 10-foot version of the same, 14 AWG power cord (that's both heavier gauge and longer than the Soloist's original power cord).

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012EI6KE

 

When it all gets here, I'll be listening very, very carefully to see if the Furman power conditioner or the two power cords introduce any noise with any of my headphones, including my IEMs.

 

Stay tuned...

 

Mike

 

I have the Burson Conductor, which is the same with soloist at the amplifier section.

I bought a PS Audio Duet Center power conditioner to use with my last amp/dac (Burson HA-160 DS) and it was good with it, it really made  a difference

When I tried it with Conductor it seemed that it took out the dynamics from the sound and the bass. I mailed Burson to ask if it advised to use a power conditioner with Conductor.

Their response confirmed my findings:

 

 

 

Quote:
Burson Audio
 

Yes, the conductor features a 5 stage filtering power supply. Therefore, we don't recommend the use of external power conditioners. Thanks for your interest and your honest feedback 
- Charlie


Edited by dan.gheorghe - 1/15/13 at 10:38am
post #584 of 1185

As for the guys talking about the LCD-3 synergy, i've seen a couple of reviewers who have used it on par with the soloist. I think its a matter of "what kind of sound you like" guys, i've had the conductor (who uses the same soloist amp) with the LCD-3 for a couple of weeks now, and been happier. 

 

Or probably the Dac section is making more justice/when compared vs the standalone unit? 

post #585 of 1185

Dan,

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan.gheorghe View Post

I have the Burson Conductor, which is the same with soloist at the amplifier section.

I bought a PS Audio Duet Center power conditioner to use with my last amp/dac (Burson HA-160 DS) and it was good with it, it really made  a difference. 

When I tried it with Conductor it seemed that it took out the dynamics from the sound and the bass. I mailed Burson to ask if it advised to use a power conditioner with Conductor.

Their response confirmed my findings:

 

 

Thank you very, very much for this feedback!    I've been listening carefully to the Furman AC-215A while it gets burned in.  I had told myself that I try pulling it out at about the 50-hour mark, to see if anything changes for better or worse.  Right now, I'm trying to avoid drawing conclusions, but haven't detected anything horrible.  I think the A/B test could very well make any difference in sound quality more obvious.

 

Unfortunately, where I live, both at home and at my workplace, we have blackouts at the frequency of perhaps once a month, on average.  When these occur, they are usually of short duration (five minutes or less), but worse, they are sometimes what we call "hammering blackouts" where the power comes back on, then off, then on, then off - in a rapid succession that really messes with electronic gear, garage door openers, anything with a motor, you name it.  In my lab at work, we were losing servers and switches, due to these hammering blackouts, at the rate of about one loss per month - until I waged a personal crusade to procure and install rack-mounted line conditioner/voltage regulator/surge suppressors throughout the lab.  Duh!  The lab is not a production environment, so we have very few machines that require uninterrupted power, where all of them need clean power.

 

At home I use Tripp-Lite LC1200 Line Conditioners, like this, in three different locations, but not for audio gear:

 

 

 

For the Soloist, I thought I'd try a made-for-audio-equipment line conditioner, so I decided to give the Furman AC-215A a shot.  Reading the specs, I had noticed it doesn't seem to provide protection from under-voltage (brownouts) - which I know we suffer quite a bit, thanks to the indicator LEDs on my Tripp-Lite conditioners), but it does provide noise filtering, protection from over-voltage, and surge protection this is NOT self-destructive.  This is a very nice feature, in that most surge protectors have components that literally get consumed or used-up over time, making them worthless.  A few such surge protectors, like the Tripp Lite TLP1008TELTV, shown here, have self-destructive components, but they also feature a "Protected" LED that is extinguished when those components have been "used-up" - indicating that it's time to replace the surge protector.

 

 

 

We get so many surges in this area, that I actually front-end my Line Conditioners with these power-strip surge protectors - sacrificing these $27.00 devices that provide 3345 Joules of surge protection, literally to protect the more expensive Line Conditioners and the equipment plugged into them.  The Line Conditioners only offer 1200 Joules of surge protection - and it's self-destructive, unlike the surge protection in the Furman AC-215A.

 

Daisy-chaining my surge protectors and line conditioners works fine for most electronics, but I don't want to do that for the audio gear, and even though the Burson Soloist may have terrific noise filtering in its power supply, I doubt that it has any built-in protection against constant over-voltages or momentary surges, hammering blackouts, or anything else that could damage the Soloist.  So...  I need something between the wall outlet and the Soloist, but I will definitely be listening for what impact this has on sound quality.

 

I just now paused for a couple of minutes to write Burson and ask them what they recommend, if anything, for protecting the Soloist (against power surges, brownouts, blackouts, hammering blackouts, sustained over-voltages, etc.)  And I asked them if their power supply provides built-in protection for any of these conditions (beyond filtering of line noise).  

 

Amazingly, as bad as our AC power is, here, I've never heard any audible reason to be concerned about line noise - with any audio gear.  Our power is clean enough in terms of EFI and RMI noise, despite all the other problems.

 

I will follow-up with their reply (and the results of my forthcoming A/B tests).

 

Thanks again for your input!

 

Mike


Edited by zilch0md - 1/15/13 at 11:23am
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