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burson new soloist headphone amp - Page 38

post #556 of 1177

Beauty of a gain switch... put it at 12 o'clock and select the gain that is where you listen.  Gives you lots of sweep either way to fine tune.

 

In other news... I have a B22 and GS-X being built, First Watt F3 at my feet and... I'm thinking about going back to the Soloist :O

post #557 of 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohannesBrahms View Post

I don't think they've lost sight of the end result, which is sound quality, right?  Not, your sensitivity to little clicks in the sound when adjusting the volume.  If it means the sound is more pure with a stepped attenuator, I'll take that.  I can live with little clicks, not compromised sound quality.  The Soloist is IMHO one of the best values out there.  Incredible sound quality, amazing preamp, that sounds better than any amp for under a grand.  

 

However, if you're just into really loud Rock or Punk or just general band music, I would look elsewhere.  Burson is about pure audio signal, transparency, tonality, texture, sound staging, etc...  But it's not about wowing people who want their heads blown off.  If you're into chamber music, string orchestral, even blue grass and jazz, this amp is ridiculously good.  

 

Rockers can get their rocks off with many different amps other than the Soloist.  

I really do not understand the issue with the Burson not going well with rock music. I have been thinking about buying the Burson, however I like rock. Can you explain why I should look else where ?

post #558 of 1177

The Soloist is pretty laid back so for some that means no good for MOAR POWER folks.  I wouldn't pair the Soloist with a laid back headphone but I also would never pair an aggressive headphone with an aggressive amp and play aggressive music.  Sounds like a formula for fatigue ;)

 

Soloist+LCD-2=WIN for alternative/punk/rock/metal


Edited by Solude - 1/13/13 at 1:47pm
post #559 of 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post

Beauty of a gain switch... put it at 12 o'clock and select the gain that is where you listen.  Gives you lots of sweep either way to fine tune.

I like to select the lowest gain possible for a given headphone, to minimize the change in volume between each of the 24 steps.

Mike
post #560 of 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post

Beauty of a gain switch... put it at 12 o'clock and select the gain that is where you listen.  Gives you lots of sweep either way to fine tune.

 

In other news... I have a B22 and GS-X being built, First Watt F3 at my feet and... I'm thinking about going back to the Soloist :O

 

Oh really! Tell me more on this! I was thinking about getting a mjolnir or GS-x.  The more I listen to this guy, the more I like it. I think it's taking me a little while to really warm up and appreciate it.

 

I think when compared to other amps, at first glance the ones that sound more aggressive are preferred, but after awhile (and hearing people complaining about fatigue on the mjolnir) I'm really appreciating that fact I can listen for 4 or 5 hours without any issues at all. Over time, I've begun to appreciate the subtle relaxed sound, but it still has a lot of detail. Especially the little details. 

 

I usually like the 'medium' gain overall (T1s, Mad Dogs, Q701, AD2000, K501). I think it's a pretty juicy sound overall. I only use 'low' for the D7000. 


Edited by elwappo99 - 1/13/13 at 7:22pm
post #561 of 1177

There's too much fuss over the attenuator. The clicking is not a big issue, and you can also use the gain as another means of controlling the volume.

post #562 of 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post

Oh really! Tell me more on this! I was thinking about getting a mjolnir or GS-x.

 

 

It's funny or retarded depending on your point of view but here we go.

 

When I had the LCD-2 I had a lot of amps comes through and as good as the GS-1 is it got kicked to the curb for the WA22.  Then the B22 came around and might as well have been a stand in for the WA22 but with better staging and SS so... WA22 to the curb.  Then I got the LCD-3, which is more laid back, and the Peak kicked the B22 to the curb.  Before it hit the door I brought in the Soloist for 'fun'.  It was pretty much a better B22 :O  Not as powerful in watts, not even close to be honest, but essentially a better B22 in every way at lower power.  But the LCD-3 is laid back so that same sig that worked for the LCD-2 in the B22 was now too dead with the LCD-3.  Peak stayed and the Soloist and B22 left.  Later I got the Mjolnir and even on the more laid back LCD-3, it was simply too aggressive for me... gone.  

 

I later got the PWD2 and recently dumped the LCD-3 and Peak to go back to the easy to please LCD-2 and solid state.  Will a balanced GS-1 running at higher bias and rails make up the ground the GS-1 didn't?  Will the single ended B22 built to perfection pull ahead of or match the Soloist while delivering much higher power?  Were both just showing the weakness that was the W4S DAC-2?  Looking to find out early February... maybe ;)

 

First I need to test the F3 which is more of an experiment than anything else.

 

Will however say that I wish Burson would stop their advertising tactic of listing the power at full -on clipping.  The Soloist has a usable output of 1W@30Ohm, ~500mW into the LCD line.  They did the same thing for the HA-160 and it drives me nuts.

post #563 of 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post

 

It's funny or retarded depending on your point of view but here we go.

 

When I had the LCD-2 I had a lot of amps comes through and as good as the GS-1 is it got kicked to the curb for the WA22.  Then the B22 came around and might as well have been a stand in for the WA22 but with better staging and SS so... WA22 to the curb.  Then I got the LCD-3, which is more laid back, and the Peak kicked the B22 to the curb.  Before it hit the door I brought in the Soloist for 'fun'.  It was pretty much a better B22 :O  Not as powerful in watts, not even close to be honest, but essentially a better B22 in every way at lower power.  But the LCD-3 is laid back so that same sig that worked for the LCD-2 in the B22 was now too dead with the LCD-3.  Peak stayed and the Soloist and B22 left.  Later I got the Mjolnir and even on the more laid back LCD-3, it was simply too aggressive for me... gone.  

 

I later got the PWD2 and recently dumped the LCD-3 and Peak to go back to the easy to please LCD-2 and solid state.  Will a balanced GS-1 running at higher bias and rails make up the ground the GS-1 didn't?  Will the single ended B22 built to perfection pull ahead of or match the Soloist while delivering much higher power?  Were both just showing the weakness that was the W4S DAC-2?  Looking to find out early February... maybe ;)

 

First I need to test the F3 which is more of an experiment than anything else.

 

Will however say that I wish Burson would stop their advertising tactic of listing the power at full -on clipping.  The Soloist has a usable output of 1W@30Ohm, ~500mW into the LCD line.  They did the same thing for the HA-160 and it drives me nuts.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post

 

It's funny or retarded depending on your point of view but here we go.

 

When I had the LCD-2 I had a lot of amps comes through and as good as the GS-1 is it got kicked to the curb for the WA22.  Then the B22 came around and might as well have been a stand in for the WA22 but with better staging and SS so... WA22 to the curb.  Then I got the LCD-3, which is more laid back, and the Peak kicked the B22 to the curb.  Before it hit the door I brought in the Soloist for 'fun'.  It was pretty much a better B22 :O  Not as powerful in watts, not even close to be honest, but essentially a better B22 in every way at lower power.  But the LCD-3 is laid back so that same sig that worked for the LCD-2 in the B22 was now too dead with the LCD-3.  Peak stayed and the Soloist and B22 left.  Later I got the Mjolnir and even on the more laid back LCD-3, it was simply too aggressive for me... gone.  

 

I later got the PWD2 and recently dumped the LCD-3 and Peak to go back to the easy to please LCD-2 and solid state.  Will a balanced GS-1 running at higher bias and rails make up the ground the GS-1 didn't?  Will the single ended B22 built to perfection pull ahead of or match the Soloist while delivering much higher power?  Were both just showing the weakness that was the W4S DAC-2?  Looking to find out early February... maybe ;)

 

First I need to test the F3 which is more of an experiment than anything else.

 

Will however say that I wish Burson would stop their advertising tactic of listing the power at full -on clipping.  The Soloist has a usable output of 1W@30Ohm, ~500mW into the LCD line.  They did the same thing for the HA-160 and it drives me nuts.

 

 

Have you been able to make a decision and stick with it in any other aspect of life?  tongue.gif

 

I'm afraid of the same thing you mentioned with the Mjolnir (which I think I might have read elsewhere from you). The Soloist is just a relaxing sound to listen to.  I'll keep my eyes peeled on your comments about the headamp later on :)

 

I knew burson overstated power with the 160, but I didn't know with the soloist. Guess I never cranked anything far enough to get clipping. 

post #564 of 1177

They aren't alone.  Check InnerFidelity for the EF-6 measurement.  Powerful it isn't either.  But HE-6 users report both as capable which flies in the face of the HE-6 camp also saying they need monster power.

post #565 of 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post

 

I usually like the 'medium' gain overall (T1s, Mad Dogs, Q701, AD2000, K501). I think it's a pretty juicy sound overall. I only use 'low' for the D7000. 

 

With the MJ the Denons and the AD2K are a no go.  At least for me.  Mad Dogs = so so.  T1's = good, AKG = ??.  IMO all the MJ really needs is a gain switch.  Without it you are limited.  Just, IMO..

post #566 of 1177

Hi Solude,

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post

 

It's funny or retarded depending on your point of view but here we go.

 

When I had the LCD-2 I had a lot of amps comes through and as good as the GS-1 is it got kicked to the curb for the WA22.  Then the B22 came around and might as well have been a stand in for the WA22 but with better staging and SS so... WA22 to the curb.  Then I got the LCD-3, which is more laid back, and the Peak kicked the B22 to the curb.  Before it hit the door I brought in the Soloist for 'fun'.  It was pretty much a better B22 :O  Not as powerful in watts, not even close to be honest, but essentially a better B22 in every way at lower power.  But the LCD-3 is laid back so that same sig that worked for the LCD-2 in the B22 was now too dead with the LCD-3.  Peak stayed and the Soloist and B22 left.  Later I got the Mjolnir and even on the more laid back LCD-3, it was simply too aggressive for me... gone.  

 

I later got the PWD2 and recently dumped the LCD-3 and Peak to go back to the easy to please LCD-2 and solid state.  Will a balanced GS-1 running at higher bias and rails make up the ground the GS-1 didn't?  Will the single ended B22 built to perfection pull ahead of or match the Soloist while delivering much higher power?  Were both just showing the weakness that was the W4S DAC-2?  Looking to find out early February... maybe ;)

 

First I need to test the F3 which is more of an experiment than anything else.

 

Will however say that I wish Burson would stop their advertising tactic of listing the power at full -on clipping.  The Soloist has a usable output of 1W@30Ohm, ~500mW into the LCD line.  They did the same thing for the HA-160 and it drives me nuts.

 

This is, for me, one of the most valuable posts I've read in a while - seriously.   I'm currently trying to play the same game, but haven't spent nearly as much money as you have to make these comparisons, so I very much appreciate your opinions.  

 

To better take advantage of your experience with these amps and the LCD-2 / LCD-3, I would very much appreciate it if you could describe your personal preference - the sound you prefer, or at least, that you are trying to achieve.  I know what I like, even though I'm finding that my tastes are still evolving, but I would really like to know what your after, in terms of presence or absence of neutrality, transparency, accuracy, dynamics, etc.   What is your subjective ideal?

 

Having used the LCD-2 rev.1 for two years, and having never heard the LCD-3, I have to say I'm surprised that you find the LCD-3 more "laid back" than the LCD-2, as from only reading about their differences, I would have thought the LCD-2 was more "laid back."  Perhaps what I need is a definition of terms.   

 

Here's a specific question:  Which is better with the Soloist, the LCD-2 or the LCD-3 - and why (within the context of your subjective goals)?

 

I'm really looking forward to your reply, as I'm definitely not interested in buying and testing all the combinations you've tested.   wink.gif

 

Congratulations on the F3 - I've been day dreaming about Nelson Pass's "affordable" amps for several months.   Are you thinking of connecting the LCD-2 to the speaker taps?   The manuals for most of the First Watt amps suggest they can handle 4-Ohm to 16-Ohm, but I've never written him to ask about using 50-Ohm orthodynamic headphones.   I'm thinking it would be OK - certainly better than allowing the amp to see a 2-Ohm load, but I don't know for sure.

 

Thanks,

 

Mike

post #567 of 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post

They aren't alone.  Check InnerFidelity for the EF-6 measurement.  Powerful it isn't either.  But HE-6 users report both as capable which flies in the face of the HE-6 camp also saying they need monster power.

 

I didn't know that about the EF-6 either. I wonder if that's why I felt it was thin when I heard it. 

post #568 of 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post

[snip]

 

Will however say that I wish Burson would stop their advertising tactic of listing the power at full -on clipping.  The Soloist has a usable output of 1W@30Ohm, ~500mW into the LCD line.  They did the same thing for the HA-160 and it drives me nuts.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post

[snip]

 

I knew burson overstated power with the 160, but I didn't know with the soloist. Guess I never cranked anything far enough to get clipping. 

 

That's a shame.  I've had my doubts about the Soloist's power rating, too.  Doing the math, the CEntrance DACmini CX is rated at 0.48Wpc into 50 Ohms, where the Soloist is rated at 1.28 Wpc into 50 Ohms (for the LCD-2, for example).  But when using the LCD-2, I really can't hear any of the advantages (improved dynamics, bass control, and perhaps bass extension) one would normally expect to accompany a 2.67x increase in Watts per channel (when comparing the 1.28 Wpc Soloist to the 0.48 Wpc DACmini CX).  There are plenty of other sonic traits that distinguish the Soloist from DACmini CX, but additional headroom doesn't seem to be one of them.   

 

I would even go as far as to say that running a Meier Stepdance on 15V external power vs. an 8.4V rechargeable "9V" internal battery is HUGE in terms of improving headroom related traits, compared to the difference in headroom between the DACmini CX and Soloist.  

 

So, I think you guys are onto something, but then again, the LCD-2 and LCD-3 aren't as power dependent (inefficient) as even my Beyerdynamic T1, with which I can sense a difference in dynamics between the DACmini CX and the Soloist - but it's still subtle and I might be confusing the added warmth for an increase in bass energy.  But the difference is not as obvious as listening to the LCD-2 with a Meier Stepdance on 15V vs. 8.4V.

 

The good news is that I "think" the LCD-2 is content with the power levels actually provided by both the DACmini CX and the Soloist, especially on hearing Solude's testimony regarding more potent amps with the LCD-2.  

 

Question to anyone:  When Audeze says their headphones can handle 15W, are they literally saying 15Wpc into 50-Ohms or are they saying 15Wpc into the standard 8-Ohms?

 

Thanks,

 

Mike

post #569 of 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

With the MJ the Denons and the AD2K are a no go.  At least for me.  Mad Dogs = so so.  T1's = good, AKG = ??.  IMO all the MJ really needs is a gain switch.  Without it you are limited.  Just, IMO..

 

That's interesting. I heard it with some Grados and although it was a tad bright, I thought it was OK. Maybe time I scratch that one off the list. 

post #570 of 1177

I'm told the First Watt amps and headphones work together, the caveat being IT HAS TO BE A BALANCED CONNECTION or poof ;)

 

I would take the LCD-2 for the Soloist.

 

Ideally I want all the check marks BUT it's been my experience that too dynamic turns to shouty, too transparent turns to top tilted.  Resolution is free, too much doesn't exist.

 

The LCD-3 is less punchy and has less treble presence than the LCD-2.  Smoother treble, but less of it.  Listening to the Soloist on something with no punch and low treble presence ends in a high resolution lifeless experience.  The LCD-2 injects some heat and drive into the equation.  Mind you the Rev1 and the LCD-3 are fairly close in tonally balance.

 

My Q cables for the F3 should be here Wednesday so I'll either be in the market for a pre-amp Thursday or selling the F3 ;)

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