Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › Constructive "Anti-Beats" headphone discussion
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Constructive "Anti-Beats" headphone discussion - Page 14

post #196 of 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchi MerenGue View Post

often times if feels like when they come here, they're not so much guilty of buying into the hype but rather trading one hype for another

 

they're not made to feel welcome, its just a bunch of elitist who probably never heard the beats to begin with dictating what is and what isnt good sound.

 

not implying that thats what you are, but i feel like there is alot of pressure to push grados or sennheisers or other bass light headphones over phones like beats to people who really only wanted bass to begin with and thats the part that alot of members here cant comprehend

 

Well, that's debateable.  Certainly there are fanboys here as well.  I myself get attached to certain models on occassion, and in general I like AKG's house sound, but I still try to be open-minded and objective about recs.

 

FWIW, I did own both a Studio and a SoloHD, and I try to confine my negative comments exclusively to those two (because I did not have a positive ownership experience with them).

 

As far as catering to bassheads, there are quite a lot of recommendations for the XB series...  So it's not like Head-Fiers completely don't get it.  smile.gif

post #197 of 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by warrenpchi View Post

 

Because often times, these same people will come to realize later on that they DON'T in fact like that sound.  When people come on here and say they like the "bloated drown out everything bass", there is usually a mute response.  Occasionally there will even be some encouragement to those people in the form of "get what you like, forget what others say."  But more often than not, they come here filled with regret (and feeling a bit victimized) that they bought into the hype and have since realized that they wanted something different.  They simply bought the Beats because they did not know any better.

 

It is the ignorance that we're against, not the preference.  Why is it so hard for you to understand that?

i think its pretty heavy handed and unreasonable to consider beats users as ignorant.  quite frankly, i feel a lot of you guys on here are to close to see the forest for the trees on this one.  most everyone on here is a minute few that actually took the time to educate yourselves and made it an important aspect of your life to invest your money and time to learn the ins and outs of this.  That isnt a priority for a lot of people.  most people.  to assume that everyone who hasnt taken the time to do that as ignorant is unfair.  UNCONCERNED, should be more the answer.

 

I purchase cars without knowing the ins and outs of hybrid batteries.  i suppose that makes me ignorant about cars.  but the reality is that i dont care about cars like some people do, but i still want their utility.  I still value things about them.  and will buy one based on values that i deem important.  could i get more mileage per dollar?  maybe.  more features? more horsepower?  would i be better served with a tata than a toyota?  its possible, but i bought the one popular one in the wal-mart, so to speak.  and im fine with that.

 

and perhaps you should take beats as a vessel to greater things.  Im here because i was looking into beats.  i would imagine many others are as well.  and i took the time and advice to find better options because this interests me more than cars do.  and sometimes people need to buy cheap or bad in order to appreciate better.  every fender squier that gets sold makes them appreciate that historic gibson all the more.  doesnt make the squier a bad purchase, but makes them more aware of what they actually want in a product.  and sometimes that is necessary.  afterall, how can we value great if we never experience bad?

post #198 of 548

some people buy the beats just for the design. where they have dispossable cash and other better headphones at home (although a rare case) 
but majority of the people buy beats simply because they think beats are the only excellent headphone out there. when they see some unknown sennheiser or shure they think "ah these unknown headphones cant be good and have quality"
so they get back in their comfort zone and buy beats. (afterall all their favourite celebs like justib bieber dr dre etc are false praising beats like its a god of audio) so our job here is to make them aware that this 'god' of headphones is truely a devil of boomy bad bass with NOT clear highs and not clear everything else
thats why we push our fav headphones foward to replace the beats depending on the person's preferences
headphones about beats price or less for:
Detailhead? Shure srh940/srh840
Soundstagehead? Senheiser HD598
Basshead?XB1000
Fun? Grado SR325i/Audio Technica M50


Edited by streetdragon - 9/14/12 at 5:15pm
post #199 of 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by pickleweed View Post

 

I purchase cars without knowing the ins and outs of hybrid batteries.  i suppose that makes me ignorant about cars.  but the reality is that i dont care about cars like some people do, but i still want their utility.  I still value things about them.  and will buy one based on values that i deem important.  could i get more mileage per dollar?  maybe.  more features? more horsepower?  would i be better served with a tata than a toyota?  its possible, but i bought the one popular one in the wal-mart, so to speak.  and im fine with that.

 

 

Actually, the equivalent scenario would be buying a Prius without researching other hybrids. In some cases, it's like buying a Prius when in actuality, a minivan serves your needs better.

post #200 of 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by pickleweed View Post

i think its pretty heavy handed and unreasonable to consider beats users as ignorant.  quite frankly, i feel a lot of you guys on here are to close to see the forest for the trees on this one.  most everyone on here is a minute few that actually took the time to educate yourselves and made it an important aspect of your life to invest your money and time to learn the ins and outs of this.  That isnt a priority for a lot of people.  most people.  to assume that everyone who hasnt taken the time to do that as ignorant is unfair.  UNCONCERNED, should be more the answer.

 

I purchase cars without knowing the ins and outs of hybrid batteries.  i suppose that makes me ignorant about cars.  but the reality is that i dont care about cars like some people do, but i still want their utility.  I still value things about them.  and will buy one based on values that i deem important.  could i get more mileage per dollar?  maybe.  more features? more horsepower?  would i be better served with a tata than a toyota?  its possible, but i bought the one popular one in the wal-mart, so to speak.  and im fine with that.

 

and perhaps you should take beats as a vessel to greater things.  Im here because i was looking into beats.  i would imagine many others are as well.  and i took the time and advice to find better options because this interests me more than cars do.  and sometimes people need to buy cheap or bad in order to appreciate better.  every fender squier that gets sold makes them appreciate that historic gibson all the more.  doesnt make the squier a bad purchase, but makes them more aware of what they actually want in a product.  and sometimes that is necessary.  afterall, how can we value great if we never experience bad?

 

Right, but you kind of countered your own argument. If nobody here bashed Beats and just politely gave the thumbs up, this forum would be kind of pointless, as ignorant buyers would remain so.

 

Same would go for a car forum where the experienced owners, mechanics, etc. just told everyone that everything on the market was great to be polite and not make them feel ignorant.

 

Squier and Gibson are both bad purchases I'd say, lol. I spent $2,000 on my Gibson and it sits in the closet rotting. I should have asked on HarmonyCentral first where everyone seemed to already know about the decline of Gibson's quality control. I was an ignorant teenager. I bought whatever the celebrity musicians endorsed. I didn't know about small domestic luthiers, which are the reason the Gibson is now a moth playground.

 

As for the people who simply don't care? Well, why would they be reading a headphone forum if they don't care? It seems like anyone stumbling upon this is specifically looking for critical reviews.


Edited by machoboy - 9/14/12 at 5:36pm
post #201 of 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishcabible View Post

 

Actually, the equivalent scenario would be buying a Prius without researching other hybrids. In some cases, it's like buying a Prius when in actuality, a minivan serves your needs better.

 

i see it something like this -

 

i need a car with good mileage.  i have a long commute to work, what do you guys think about a prius?

 

"prius' suck!  the tesla model S' are the bee's knees and generally superior in every way! hugs the corners!"

 

"the volts are awesome!  all you'll need is to drive less than the range and to have a charging station."

 

"buy an old mercedes and fill it with used vegetable oil!  mcdonalds throws out gallons for free every night!"

 

"deisels run cleaner and more efficiently."

 

"bicycle, bro....."

 

"buy a truck, and drop the tailgate!"

 

 

and all of which may be valid, but is so far removed from being practical for a lot of people.  substitute vegetable oil and charging station for FLAC files, and DAC's.........

post #202 of 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by pickleweed View Post

 

i see it something like this -

 

i need a car with good mileage.  i have a long commute to work, what do you guys think about a prius?

 

"prius' suck!  the tesla model S' are the bee's knees and generally superior in every way! hugs the corners!"

 

"the volts are awesome!  all you'll need is to drive less than the range and to have a charging station."

 

"buy an old mercedes and fill it with used vegetable oil!  mcdonalds throws out gallons for free every night!"

 

"deisels run cleaner and more efficiently."

 

"bicycle, bro....."

 

"buy a truck, and drop the tailgate!"

 

 

and all of which may be valid, but is so far removed from being practical for a lot of people.  substitute vegetable oil and charging station for FLAC files, and DAC's.........

 

Hmmm.. If I were asking what people thought about the Prius those are actually the exact answers I'd be looking for; whether they think something else is better, whether it be a Volt or Leaf or Focus or diesel or a used Mercedes running on vegetable oil. They're not forcing you to buy any of those. They're giving you stuff to consider.

 

If everyone just responded with "I think they're great! Mine's blue!" rather than suggesting alternatives, then why bother asking...? Disagreement, rather than a one-sided sales brochure, is the entire point. I think Beats suck in every possible way. That doesn't make it factual, but I think if anyone shopping for headphones asks about them, I should have the decency to just say it.


Edited by machoboy - 9/14/12 at 5:48pm
post #203 of 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by pickleweed View Post

i think its pretty heavy handed and unreasonable to consider beats users as ignorant.  quite frankly, i feel a lot of you guys on here are to close to see the forest for the trees on this one.  most everyone on here is a minute few that actually took the time to educate yourselves and made it an important aspect of your life to invest your money and time to learn the ins and outs of this.  That isnt a priority for a lot of people.  most people.  to assume that everyone who hasnt taken the time to do that as ignorant is unfair.  UNCONCERNED, should be more the answer.

 

Not all Beats users.  Again, if people have heard something else and prefer Beats, then that is a matter of them exercising their preference.  I for one don't have a whole lot to say to them one way or the other as it's all a matter of opinion. 

 

You seem to automatically assign a negative connotation to the word ignorant.  It is impossible for anyone to know everything to an appreciable depth.  Ignorance is a fact of life.  It is - in and of itself - not a bad thing.  So yes, if someone is not knowledgeable about headphones, I would factually consider them ignorant of headphones.  Lack of concern may or may not be the underlying reason, but that does not change the fact that they are ignorant.

 

And if people dont feel headphones are a priority, okay.  Who cares, we're all different and into different things.  I don't know if you're aware of this but Head-Fier's don't go out looking to pick a fight about Beats.  We don't picket Best Buys with anti-Beats rallies.  We're perfectly content to live and let live.

 

But if they come here and post that Beats are the best, or that they feel they might have made a mistake, they are inviting our opinion.  And I can assure you, this forum does not exist to make general and ignorant consumers feel better about their purchases.  We will state our minds.  And if you were to suggest that we do otherwise, that would be - quite frankly - a bit insulting.

 

I'm vastly simplifying my point with what I'm about to say, but in the vernacualr of the day, I would say to them: 

 

"Aight, if that's your thang, more power to ya.  But don't ******* bring that **** here Homey."

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pickleweed View Post

I purchase cars without knowing the ins and outs of hybrid batteries.  i suppose that makes me ignorant about cars.  but the reality is that i dont care about cars like some people do, but i still want their utility.  I still value things about them.  and will buy one based on values that i deem important.  could i get more mileage per dollar?  maybe.  more features? more horsepower?  would i be better served with a tata than a toyota?  its possible, but i bought the one popular one in the wal-mart, so to speak.  and im fine with that.

 

And do you then visit automotive forums and brag about your hybrid?  And if you were to visit an automobile forum and engage that community about your purchase, what do you feel the response would be?  They are not coming to your house to bother you.  But they do have their opinions.  And if you - or anyone else - were to visit the place where they hang out, you should know that you may or may not have to hear their opinions.

 

As for the scenario where you have a hybrid... that's great.  And if you're happy with it, good for you.  FWIW, I am a car guy.  But since you are neither:  (A) trying to claim that your car is the best or superior in any way; nor (B) asking me about how your car performs vs others, notice that I don't feel the need to engage you on that topic.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pickleweed View Post

and perhaps you should take beats as a vessel to greater things.  Im here because i was looking into beats.  i would imagine many others are as well.  and i took the time and advice to find better options because this interests me more than cars do.  and sometimes people need to buy cheap or bad in order to appreciate better.  every fender squier that gets sold makes them appreciate that historic gibson all the more.  doesnt make the squier a bad purchase, but makes them more aware of what they actually want in a product.  and sometimes that is necessary.  afterall, how can we value great if we never experience bad?

 

Some people do just that.  They'll come here out of curiosity, simply to learn more.  And I think that if you were to re-read a good number of Beats-related threads, you'll find that curious and open-minded don't get bashed.  Its really the trolls that ask for it.  Even then, as a community, we do make an effort to be reasonable.  This entire thread exists to help come up with tempered responses.

 

But please consider that in order to experience bad, one must also experience good (whatever that may mean to them).  The people here have - to a large degree - already done that.  And if one were to ask them about Beats, they will divulge what they have learned.  One can choose to accept what they say, or argue with them.  But if go into someone else's house to argue with them, you should expect that civility will soon fall away.

 

BTW, what do you think a Fender Squire fanboy would encounter if he visited a Les Paul forum?

post #204 of 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by pickleweed View Post

i see it something like this -

 

i need a car with good mileage.  i have a long commute to work, what do you guys think about a prius?

 

"prius' suck!  the tesla model S' are the bee's knees and generally superior in every way! hugs the corners!"

 

"the volts are awesome!  all you'll need is to drive less than the range and to have a charging station."

 

"buy an old mercedes and fill it with used vegetable oil!  mcdonalds throws out gallons for free every night!"

 

"deisels run cleaner and more efficiently."

 

"bicycle, bro....."

 

"buy a truck, and drop the tailgate!"

 

 

and all of which may be valid, but is so far removed from being practical for a lot of people.  substitute vegetable oil and charging station for FLAC files, and DAC's........

 

And that would be a prime example of how no community - even Head-Fi - is perfect.  For the record, I do (and have) jumped down my fellow Head-Fier's throats about not properly reading an OP's list of criteria before responding.  However, even with the above fictional exchange, you'll notice that you did get an answer to your question.  You may not like it, or find it particularly helpful, but answers were given. 

post #205 of 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by machoboy View Post

 

Right, but you kind of countered your own argument. If nobody here bashed Beats and just politely gave the thumbs up, this forum would be kind of pointless, as ignorant buyers would remain so.

 

Same would go for a car forum where the experienced owners, mechanics, etc. just told everyone that everything on the market was great to be polite and not make them feel ignorant.

 

Squier and Gibson are both bad purchases I'd say, lol. I spent $2,000 on my Gibson and it sits in the closet rotting. I should have asked on HarmonyCentral first where everyone seemed to already know about the decline of Gibson's quality control. I was an ignorant teenager. I bought whatever the celebrity musicians endorsed. I didn't know about small domestic luthiers, which are the reason the Gibson is now a moth playground.

 

As for the people who simply don't care? Well, why would they be reading a headphone forum if they don't care? It seems like anyone stumbling upon this is specifically looking for critical reviews.

 

well i think there is a world between the extremes.  Im not asking you to wax poetic about them, but there is a stigma attached to them on these forums that i find unfair.  how many people accuse the buyers of "caving to peer pressure" or "trying to be cool?"  as if thats the only reason for buying them.  perhaps they didnt want to drop 300 bucks on cans that they can only blindly purchase to have access too?  thats a pretty big gamble for most people.  I suppose my point was that every can has a strength and weakness.  I can go on here and look at the k550's and see people reasonably discussing seal problems, or lack of bass to go along with great comfort and strong soundstaging.  when i search beats, i see shiny plastic thats trying to be cool. thats not an informative opinion.  the hate outweighs the discussion in a lot of ways.  This thread is a prime example.  it took an entire thread simply to be CONSTRUCTIVE!

 

tell me why the prius inst a smart purchase.  tell me that the nickel in the battery will be in a landfill for years.  tell me that the hybrid system is 5 grand to replace once the warranty expires.  tell me that it goes 5mph off the line.  but dont tell me that im some hipster, eco doofus because i bought one and should have bought a bicycle instead.

 

and as for the guitar side of it - how much did that local luthier cost you?  because when i priced it, it was closer to 7g's than 2.  i can get into a whole other discussion about guitars, but ill leave that for another forum :)

post #206 of 548

How I see it, if you share negative opinions about any product:

 

     Worst case scenario: Someone who owns them and really likes them gives you a disgruntled facial expression then forgets about it 5 seconds later

 

     Best case scenario: You save someone hundreds/thousands of dollars

 

It's not elitism, it's having recently been in the same place/remembering how you wished people would just be blunt and honest.

 

I think when people say the Beats are inaccurate, muddy, have poor build quality, and are overpriced due to massive marketing campaigns, they're being pretty specific. Everyone admits they have a lot of bass (albeit distorted and boomy), so the criticisms aren't false or fabricated. The forum is also split about subjective things like their looks. Even some of the people who think they sound terrible think they look good. I'll admit I'm not one of those people and think they look hideous, but you get the point. The main, universal criticisms are pretty much dead on.

 

The alternatives recommended (XB-xxx, HFI-xxx, etc.) are usually very relevant. I've yet to see anyone inquire about Beats and be recommended a vintage 600ohms pilot headset or anything.


Edited by machoboy - 9/14/12 at 6:15pm
post #207 of 548

perhaps im not verbalizing this as im envisioning.......im not asking you to lie or to reaffirm to people.  by all means, tell them.  but i feel the standard response regarding beats is less than constructive and coated more in line with the company line here of "they sux0rs".  them and skullcandy's have this stigma that i can almost touch on here.  i mean, the new denon lines were initially received with the collective gasp of beatness because they were trying to be stylish.  it feels exactly like entering a droid vs apple debate which people go into their corners and think of the others as collective idiots.  where there is a lot of useful information, but its covered in a heavy coat of vitriol.

 

and obviously i havent been here long enough, because i cant imagine anyone getting into a pissing contest over any headphones.  period.  but i suppose i should know better, because people get into pissing matches about everything it seems.  

post #208 of 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by pickleweed View Post

perhaps im not verbalizing this as im envisioning.......im not asking you to lie or to reaffirm to people.  by all means, tell them.  but i feel the standard response regarding beats is less than constructive and coated more in line with the company line here of "they sux0rs".  them and skullcandy's have this stigma that i can almost touch on here.  i mean, the new denon lines were initially received with the collective gasp of beatness because they were trying to be stylish.  it feels exactly like entering a droid vs apple debate which people go into their corners and think of the others as collective idiots.  where there is a lot of useful information, but its covered in a heavy coat of vitriol.

 

and obviously i havent been here long enough, because i cant imagine anyone getting into a pissing contest over any headphones.  period.  but i suppose i should know better, because people get into pissing matches about everything it seems.  

 

Ahh yes, but that is largely a function of time and exposure.  Sure there are some here who will rattle off a quick bit of Beats-hate.  But for the large part, Beats discussion has been going on for 3+ years now (from what I've heard).  I understand it can be a shock for new people.  But if you had to deal with this over a period of years - on a constant basis - it'll wear on you.  Many of the responses thrown out are just short of saying "get the **** outta here" or ignoring the OP entirely.  And since they don't want to do that, they'll fire off a quick bit of "they suck."  If you like, we can table this for a year or so, and you can tell me how you feel about the topic on the other side of that year.  No one has unlimited patience, and I think you just might feel a little differently than you do today.

post #209 of 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by pickleweed View Post

i think its pretty heavy handed and unreasonable to consider beats users as ignorant.  

 

For the most part, they probably are. The target demographic for Beats is obviously the fifteen-years-old thru early twenty-something crowd who is susceptible to Monster's marketing strategies. Historically in the audio industry, Monster is known for having overly high priced products because they invest a ton in marketing and work hard at product placement in stores. Stores do love Monster products because they sell well because of the marketing; the stores make good markup off the inflated costs. Consequently, people see Monster Beats phones in all kinds of stores, making them even more popular. Most people that buy them are probably "ignorant" of the value that they get for their money, and ignorant of the fact that the popularity was created and is maintained by a company to induce them to spend their money unwisely.

 

Although it's worth mentioning that unlike Bose who also gets a bad rap, Monster's products are generally good, just expensive for what you get. On the other hand, Bose is the champion of marketing in the audio industry, and most of Bose home audio speakers are crap. Some of their Acoustimass sets have holes in the frequency response, and Bose uses the cheapest possible materials in their drivers. So if you want to see someone get abused as a fanboy of an audio product, go over to the AVS speaker forum and express a lot of love for Bose Acoustimass. The head-fi response to Beats owners is quite nice by comparison. smile.gif

post #210 of 548
Hm speaking of Bose, what would you guys say about the QuietComfort15 headphones? I got them as a gift and while not as good as my incoming Denon D2ks, I didn't find them too bad. I thought they were pretty decent. A hundred times better than Studios in my opinion. I compared them side by side with a friend's set. The Beats sounded distinctly muddy and squishy - the sound was all mushed together and sounded muffled with thumping bass finding its way into everything. Plus, the NC of the Beats was a joke compared to the Bose, especially when we used a hair dryer as a background noise. The Beats felt cheap and flimsy to me, but one positive thing was the nice thick cord that made you think it was indestructible. But in all honesty, I think the Studios are inferior to my $30 Skullcandy Titans. I heard more clarity and less mush from the $30 iem than the $300 Beats. And the Skullcandy is made of metal! LOL

After that experience, I can definitely say the QC15s are superior to the Studios. Not sure how they stack up against other cans though. My Denons walk all over the Bose in sound quality, but in any noisy place, I find myself favoring the QC15's ability to hush the world.
What do you guys think?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Headphones (full-size)
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › Constructive "Anti-Beats" headphone discussion