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Final Audio Design Impressions and Discussion Thread - Page 156

post #2326 of 6888



Just wanted to make an observation. I know this isn't an appropriate place to take this, but it'll be just a short little aside. 


I notice that many (not all) of your compositions tend to have the FADs in a golden ratio-esque fashion towards the right side of the canvas. I also tend to fly to that kind of layout on instinct. It makes me wonder if we're inherently drawn to that type of division. No matter how often I do vary my designs, I always return to that 2/3, 1/3 mentality. Just a little blurb :).

post #2327 of 6888
Originally Posted by cooperpwc View Post

From post #3 of (now) 2326:

I think that we should only be surprised that it took this long.  biggrin.gif

better late than never. lol! guess a thread is a train wreck when people get all defensive over a difference of opinion. really don't know why they have to take it so personally.
Originally Posted by autumnholy View Post

I don't get it. Some don't like that sound, some enjoy it very much (I do). It' just two person touching different part of the same elephant (music) and claim they know it all. I guess sometimes it's okay to stick to your own beliefs and let's call it a day.

Thinking what songs I should play next with PF IX...

you mean the elephant in the room right? lol! loved your PF confession btw. wink.gif
Edited by up late - 6/13/13 at 2:34am
post #2328 of 6888
Originally Posted by up late View Post

better late than never. lol! I guess a thread is a train wreck when people get all defensive over a difference of opinion. really don't know why they have to take it so personally.


I don't take it personally because you sound like you are 13 years old. 


However your post was rude, incorporating ad hominum (look it up) comments about flat earth society etc. This is what is known as trolling.


Therefore this post is rude too. Back at you, pubescent one.  ;-)

post #2329 of 6888
geez man the emoticons are there for a reason. lighten up! wink.gif
post #2330 of 6888

Well I did type:   ;-)



post #2331 of 6888
it's all good dude. smily_headphones1.gif
post #2332 of 6888

I think one of the remarkable aspects of this thread is precisely the fact that several PF owners have acknowledged these phones do not measure well, or openly stated that the PFs are certainly not for everyone (the latter statements being made before measurements were published / discussed). How many more times do we need to state this, I wonder?

I've personally said that even though I've been questioning several aspects of FR graphs for IEMs specifically (not headphones) for quite some time, these graphs still provide useful information and should not be completely dismissed or ignored.

The problem I see is one particular member (there are others, too, but one in particular) who I see as having a downright fanatic attitude in favour of graphs/measurements, a member who, curiously enough, has changed his tune several times in the last few years re: what good sound/SQ is and which IEMs are the best in the market— a member who has been claiming for quite a while now that it isn't necessary to listen to and IEM if one only looks at how the IEM in question measures. This member still provides useful information at times, but, unfortunately, far too often he derails threads, upsets many people, and not just people who happen to be fanboys of a particular IEM or who are being defensive about graphs/measurements; a member who really does seem to get a kick out of bashing IEMs—because they seem to measure 'poorly'—upsetting people and causing havoc.

I don't agree with some of the comments about the HD800s made in in a few recent posts, and I'm not saying this because it's the best phone I've heard, but because the HD800 for some/many people can indeed bring tears to people's eyes, too, ie they can provoke a deep emotional response / connection with music. Same goes for something like the FI-BA-SS. By the same token, the PFs may cause some people to want to throw up.

If this has become an exclusive club of sorts, at least as far as the 160Xs goes, it's for several reasons:

    These are very expensive IEMs
    The sound sig is very different to almost anything out there (irrespective of price)
    It's not exactly a $1,000 IEM 'bestseller'
    These offer zero isolation — a deal breaker for many.
    No detachable cables — a deal breaker for many
    Awkward fit, not guaranteed to fit properly as, say, a Westone/Shure IEM

So, the relatively few people who appreciate these phones will naturally share a very special/different type of enthusiasm. Add to that a beautiful design and solid build...




Originally Posted by up late View Post

i keep seeing talk here as soon as someone brings up a measurement that they're interested in the gear not the music, they can't make an emotional connection with music, they have no soul - yada yada. it's a rubbish argument and it makes you sound like a bunch of flat-earthers. wink.gif

measurements are nothing to get defensive about. they're just a tool and no one in their right mind is going to say that you should rely on them instead of your ears when you're judging a phone. I gave the PFs a fair hearing and wasn't impressed. when I saw the frequency response measurements they lined up with what I'd heard. and I'm not the only one who's reacted to them in that way.

facts are the measurements show a mid-centric phone with very rolled off highs and lows and that's how they sound. they color fhe sound of recorded music in an unusual way and its polarising. some love it some don't. but understand that they aren't reproducing music recordings faithfully and afaik the goal of high fidelity sound has always been to be faithful to the recording. the PFs are more like the audio version of mind altering drugs and if you dig the effect then enjoy the trip man. wink.gif

I love music and I didn't take to how the PFs were reinterpreting mine. apart from the frequency imbalance i thought the tonality sounded off. the fi-ba-ss did a better job imho. it sounded more accurate, faithful, true to the recording - in other words closer to high fidelity music reproduction.

I came to head fi find some great sounding phones. I didn't know what a headphone graph was but I do now and think they're useful because they're an objective reference for what we hear. you can use them or ignore them. they're not going to change how a phone sounds and they shouldn't influence if you like it or not but they might help you understand why a phone sounds the way it does and that can't be a bad thing. dissing measurements and lumping people who refer to them in their overall assessment of a phone into a group of soulless headphone geeks is pretty childish imho.

for me it's all about the music and it bugs me how some of you here act like you've got a mortgage on that - like you somehow have a special insight into the beauty of music just because you happen to dig some exotic Japanese phones that look gorgeous, sound interesting and measure badly, while thinking that it's entirely lost on the rest of us. that kind of elitist attitude strikes me as delusional and a bit pathetic tbh.

I keep coming back to this thread even though I don't own a FAD phone because it's an appreciation and discussion thread. some of you should try to accept that this is a headphone forum not a music appreciation society or an exclusive FAD club. so chances are there's going to be some critical comment about how even your precious FAD phones sound and measure. wink.gif


Originally Posted by up late View Post

geez man the emoticons are there for a reason. lighten up! wink.gif

You might as well not have used a single emoticon / smiley in your post above, as some of the contents were, er… insulting.

You know very well, up late, I welcomed your not so great take on the PFs (just like I very much welcomed shotgunshane's), so that people were more aware that indeed the PFs are not for everybody. I think you've also come to realise by now—after reading quite a few of my posts—that I'm not exactly the type of person who tends to hype things and that I'm quite vocal about many claims I see in these forum threads (plenty of exaggeration, BS, and misinformation). I have to say, though, that after seeing your latest posts, I'm seriously questioning the motives behind your 'participation' in this thread.

post #2333 of 6888
well music i used winking smileys so i dunno what else to say about that. my post referred to some people here - not everyone so I dunno what to say about that either unless you want me to name names. wink.gif I like you man but this sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black if you know what i mean. wink.gif
Edited by up late - 6/13/13 at 4:09am
post #2334 of 6888
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post


Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

There are some aspects of music that really are a mystery to me. What is clear to me—to this day—is that music is the purest form of art.

As someone who feels connected to music, I want to agree. But, as I'm more innately a visual artist, I want to disagree. I am absolutely torn. Why music why?


I think music begins with the unborn child's heartbeat, though it may well begin beforehand. Also, music is more direct, primitive, if you like, and often knows nothing about (country) borders, among other things.


Originally Posted by woodcans View Post


I can't answer your question directly, however I am a visual being as well. Listening to music through my FAD phones brings about such images in my mind:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


Really awful pics, woodcans! (as usual)

Originally Posted by Ridleyguy View Post

Maybe we should all move over to the new 1+2+3+4+5 thread now. biggrin.gif



post #2335 of 6888
up late, you might have a lot more credibility if you had a Head-Fi profile that at least showed what equipment you own or have owned. Have you ever attended a large Meet like CanJam and auditioned a wide range of equipment?

While all of our opinions here are just that, our opinions, at least we have a significant amount of experience in this hobby to base our opinions on. Live concert experience is also an important element to appreciating IEMs like the PF series. I am referring to concert halls and more intimate venues, not stadium/arena concerts where you leave with your ears ringing.
Edited by Ridleyguy - 6/13/13 at 4:25am
post #2336 of 6888
yeah so you keep saying.
post #2337 of 6888
And I keep getting the same juvenile response.
post #2338 of 6888
didn't know it was a requirement to post here man. keep checking my profile for updates. wink.gif
post #2339 of 6888

up late, I think you should leave now. You're like that cousin who stays over a few nights too many, and insults your mom's cooking while he's at it.


We already have one graph crusader in Inks wink.gif, we don't need another. 


As for Inks, it's amazing that the person who actually measured the PF VIII and analyzes IEMs admits that they have a charm, but it's his side kick who continues to bash them as crap.


Just in case you didn't know, there's an unsubscribe button to the left of the search button.

post #2340 of 6888

I for one find it hard to do a PF series review.


Because it's so hard to nail the exact word to describe the emotional response deep in the heart, apart from the apparent Frequency Response which can be seen with naked eyes.

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