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Final Audio Design Impressions and Discussion Thread - Page 152

post #2266 of 6697
hey music appreciation fans at least autumnholy admits the PFs sound "wrong". hi fi they definitely ain't but they look cool and if you dig what they do to your music recordings then that's all that matters right? you don't have to justify your taste to anybody. not even me.wink.gif
post #2267 of 6697
Quote:
Originally Posted by up late View Post

hi fi they definitely ain't

 

Nonsense

post #2268 of 6697

Therefore I say in my confession, the word "HIFI" printed on the box will definitely rustle a few jimmies. It's simply because everyone has a different concept of what Hi Fi should be, even though there could be proper definition to the word.

post #2269 of 6697

Hah! Usually China is a lousy place to be a consumer but occasionally it is great. I have been looking for Sony hybrid tips so I can switch back and forth between my "James-amputation-mod" tips and the original. Sony Store? Sorry, don't carry those. Jaben? Not a chance... Then I was down today at the big Metro City Mall in heart of the Xujiahui shopping district - I call it the iPhone Mall because they have two hundred vendors selling the same Apple fare and accessory junk. 

 

There among all of the redundancy was a guy selling AKG and Beyer Headphones. (He even had the 3003.) When I asked him about Sony tips, he goes into the back and pulls out a bag. He tells me 'these aren't Sony but they are the same tips from the same factory. Sony only sells in sets whereas the factory sells us individual pairs'.

 

They are the same tips - not copies - exactly the same. Core density and colours, black sleeves, all spot-on. (Can you say 'grey market"? I knew you could. biggrin.gif)  I not only got replacements for the two pairs that I had cut up, I also got another pair of my best size (greeny-white) with a second foam under-layer. I saw these on IEMs in the official Sony Store but never saw them on sale separately. These dual-layer Sony hybrids are fantastic with the Heaven VI.

 

Happy!

post #2270 of 6697
Quote:
Originally Posted by autumnholy View Post

Therefore I say in my confession, the word "HIFI" printed on the box will definitely rustle a few jimmies. It's simply because everyone has a different concept of what Hi Fi should be, even though there could be proper definition to the word.

 

I chose to link a different Wikipedia article but there really is no consistent modern definition of hi-fi. Ergo the first article that I linked.  ;-)


Edited by cooperpwc - 6/12/13 at 5:19am
post #2271 of 6697
you're kidding me right? they color the sound in an interesting way and if that floats your boat then cool but they're not true to the recording and that's what hi fi audio aims for. enjoy them for what they are - unique.
post #2272 of 6697
Quote:
Originally Posted by up late View Post

you're kidding me right? they color the sound in an interesting way and if that floats your boat then cool but they're not true to the recording and that's what hi fi audio aims for. enjoy them for what they are - unique.

It would be helpful to your argument to know what hi fi equipment you own or have owned, in order to form our own opinions about your opinion on the PFs, but I notice that you have nothing listed in your profile.

For what it's worth, I have listened to multiple versions of classical music I listen to on a variety of speaker based and headphones based systems over a number of years, and I find the PF IXs to be very true to the best performances I have heard for accoustic music on speaker based systems. One example of a very challenging classical work for any hi fi system to handle, the Brahms Piano Concerto No. 2. Even with older ecordings, such as the DG, Maurizio Pollini recording of this work. IMO, with the PF IXs, the performance is spot on.
post #2273 of 6697

A few thoughts.

 

Firstly, most "hi-fi" gear is actually colored. Take the Sennheiser HD800 for instance, a headphone generally considered high fidelity. Or FAD's own FI-BA-SS. Or even the highly lauded Stax SR-009. The sound of high fidelity gear is generally on the brighter side of what is considered strictly neutral because brighter sound signatures tend to render detail in a more overt way for the listener. This is what audiophiles usually equate to "high fidelity."

 

So coloration and high fidelity can indeed coexist. Furthermore, the quality of the recording and how it was mastered plays just as much if not more of a role in this case, and just because a headphone is true to a recording doesn't mean what you're hearing is high fidelity necessarily.

 

On the other hand, stuff that measures roughly linear or gets labeled as neutral tends to be marketed more toward monitoring applications and the pro audio sector, and much of this stuff doesn't exactly sound right to my ears either in certain respects.

 

What sounds natural or not, well, that's going to be a human variable for sure. Some gear measures very well and is touted as being "true to the source" according to those measurements. Yet that same gear sounds dull, lifeless, and lacks a sense of musical genuineness. The Objective 2 and Benchmark DACs come to mind for me personally. For certain folks (including some very experienced amp designers I know), sometimes something that measures slightly worse actually sounds better to their ears. Designers will add in a bit of distortion because it's aurally pleasing for some folks.

 

Do I find the Piano Fortes sound natural? Personally I do not. I find they sound "unique" to borrow the nomenclature. However I wont begrudge those who do, and I wouldn't take that to necessarily mean they aren't high fidelity. In fact the PFs are quite adept at imagining and sound very detailed to my ears despite their bandwidth limited tonal balance.

post #2274 of 6697
sorry guys but high fidelity sound is supposed to be faithful to the recording. the more coloration that's added the less faithful it is. if you like a very colored sound that's cool just don't call it high fidelity. no offence guys but i couldn't call the PFs high fidelity because they're very mid-centric with rolled off highs and lows. they had a coloration that sounded off to me, they sounded muddy and they weren't all that resolving. If i hadn't known they were expensive high end phones i would have written them off after the first listening session. but if their sound does it for you then you're golden. they bring something very different to the market but their sound is anything but accurate. that's what my ears tell me and the measurements do too. smily_headphones1.gif
Edited by up late - 6/12/13 at 8:27am
post #2275 of 6697
Up late is right, though I don't think anyone argues PFs are accurate or close to it. I agree it's not what ill call a hi-fi sound, more like a boutique specialized sound. Rolled off highs and lows is taking away things.

Of course no iem is perfectly flat, but high end stuff gets as close as possible
Edited by Inks - 6/12/13 at 8:21am
post #2276 of 6697
WARNING, WARNING... THIS IS A MEASUREMENT PISSING MATCH FREE ZONE biggrin.gif

And so, lets bring this back to music..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09J-ylTiS1U
post #2277 of 6697
As stated in different ways many times throughout this thread, most owners of the PF series are not claiming that their PFs are the best or most accurate IEMs out there, but it is interesting to me that people who don't like them seem to rely primarily on graphs as the source of their arguments. How music is presented, IMO, plays a very large role in explaining why certain people, and maybe it is a minority, react so positively to the PFs, as what they do well goes beyond any limitations in their dynamic range.
Edited by Ridleyguy - 6/12/13 at 9:51am
post #2278 of 6697

That's why I always imagine FAD designers could've been some genius who dropped out of the engineering school, thus the unorthodox measurements produced and yet capturing many hearts.

post #2279 of 6697
Gentlemen, I could not have put it better!

As I type the PF's are allowing to fully enjoy Elvis's I need somebody to lean on and it is sublime! Elvis singing an intimate Jazz torch song and owning it!

I think due to his popularity and much publicized life people can easily forget this guy had not only a voice but could phrase a song as well as Sinatra!
post #2280 of 6697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridleyguy View Post

As stated in different ways many times throughout this thread, most owners of the PF series are not claiming that their PFs are the best or most accurate IEMs out there, but it is interesting to me that people who don't like them seem to rely primarily on graphs as the source of their arguments. How music is presented, IMO, plays a very large role in explaining why certain people, and maybe it is a minority, react so positively to the PFs, as what they do well goes beyond any limitations in their dynamic range.

 

It's not about the music for them. It's sad. But it's what floats their boat, to borrow the nomenclature. I would rather an intense emotional connection to my music over knowing what I am hearing is dead-accurate yet lifeless. I am trying to decide if there's any value in my new HD800 at the moment. It's technically great, but they don't do much for me right now. I'd rather listen to my Heaven V, to be honest. 

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