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Final Audio Design Impressions and Discussion Thread - Page 149

post #2221 of 6694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

It is saying the same as me, linear impedance phase=no change, every dynamic I've seen has been the same.

Yeah actually that's something to mention, that impedance mismatch sometimes results in better results!! Lol. There's just change, it's something to be evaluated on a specific basis. ASG1 may be an exception for a dynamic, I've yet to see one tested though.

Ahhh it was like going from A to C. Thanks for filling in B.

I kind of want to send it to Rin just for the hell of it before I upgrade it to the G-2. It would need to be "processed" by him really quickly though because of the time limitation on the upgrade program. Also, it's the 1.1 which can be down converted to a 1.0 in a second by Rin, but not the more standard 1.2 version so it may not be very useful to anyone, especially as its recently been changed to the 1.3. What do you think? You can PM me so as to not muddy up this thread with this.
post #2222 of 6694
Quote:
Originally Posted by up late View Post

well music I see them as indicative and useful that way. can't speak for anyone else. I don't get the impression that Tyll Hertsen thinks his measurements are conclusive or tell the whole story. I like his balanced approach to this hobby. it is just a hobby. nothing to get worked up over right? wink.gif

Hmm, well, he slaughtered the T5P's and to be honest I purchased mine after his thoughts on them as I listened to them and could not find one thing he said to be true of them.

I actually think the guy does not listen to music, truly! I have yet to see him mention music in his reviews, he mentions how things sound to him, what the graphs say but nothing about music!

Compare that to someone like Mickey Fremer where you will get a balance of technical and music and the whole point always is how the equipment makes the music musical.

I think this is why this thread has been great, it is about music and how FAD portray it, not a pissing match about graphs.

It has been a quiet backwater away from all that but of course that is changing as FAD get more recognition and the FR brigade with their "if it don't measure well it has to be wrong" stance start rolling in defending their narrow lilttle world outlook on life.

Sorry, I sound harsh but I get fed up with people with a narrow band of opinion that is backed up by science and that don't think outside that ruling the emotions or spirit of others!

That which can be measured or quantified is just the tiniest part of the human experience!

Oh, and I am not taking a pop at you up late, just the whole measurement is God thing and the fact that so many of these people rarely listen the music, sure, they hear it as it is playing but they don't listen
Edited by ianmedium - 6/10/13 at 8:09am
post #2223 of 6694
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post

Nectarines to plums man (not quite apples to oranges biggrin.gif). Everything else is measured to gauge performance to a specific expected outcome. With headphones many treat many graphs that reveal as graphs that gauge.

I see this more similarly as car manufacturers tuning steering "feel." Each manufacturer probably does some kinds of tests to gauge performance but in the end, they all have a different idea of what good steering feel is so they all think the cars perform well. The important part of my point is that the objective standard you are talking about might never have been the intention of the designer. Then you test against that standard and of course it won't line up well. People need to understand that as well as how and in regard to what measurements are useful, and they are useful.

afaik headphones are measured against a flat frequency response just like speakers and amps because it's universally accepted as neutral. headphone manufacturers have to compensate for the speakers being so close to the ears and that's where things get tricky for them. it's easier to make a neutral sounding speaker than a headphone. whether a headphone designer is going for a neutral sound or a coloured one is up to them but the measurements will give the rest of us some idea of how they sound against an agreed standard.
post #2224 of 6694
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmedium View Post


Hmm, well, [Tyll] slaughtered the T5P's and to be honest I purchased mine after his thoughts on them as I listened to them and could not find one thing he said to be true of them.

I actually think the guy does not listen to music, truly! I have yet to see him mention music in his reviews, he mentions how things sound to him, what the graphs say but nothing about music!

 

Well, FYI, Tyll didn't think much of the K3003s (posted in other forums, not on HF, at least that I'm aware of). My guess is that although he's quite knowledgeable and very experienced—certainly much more than I am—, he, like other very experienced people mostly with cans, doesn't—or didn't at the time—have enough experience with different types of IEMs.

 

But, whatever the case, as experienced as Tyll may be, I trust my ears.

 

Don't know how sensitive Tyll is to music or music playing (read: musicians' capabilities / execution, tone, etc.), TBH. My experience on HF, unfortunately, even with quite a few people who may even agree with me about what 'good' sound seems to be, is that there are a hell of a lot of people, even some of our veeery revered reviewers, who just don't seem to respond to music as I'd have hoped and expected. But, then again, there's musicians who don't always know what good sound is (though I'm not sure I'd personally classify most of them as real musicians).

post #2225 of 6694
OK, one last thing.

To all my fellow "head in the sand" chums who have contributed so much to this thread being about music and not FR or curves or all that stuff which has not infected this thread and turned it into an ego fest of the techies having to be proved right with their little graphs and slide rules rolleyes.gif

I say it is time to take this thread back! Bring back the music, bring back the emotion that is the true measurement of how the FAD's perform, not some silly little line on a paper!

Let Tyll Hertsens and his ilk never ever listen to our wonderful headphones for we already know they will trash them! deadhorse.gif

No, lets keep our heads firmly buried so that we can continue to fool ourselves with the 98% of us that is our spirit and soul and not the sensible measured 2% which is our head and ego.

So, I give to you.. MUSIC!!! biggrin.gifbeerchug.gif (OH, and I see the Other music posted just before I posted this, here's to you me grumpy ol' sparrow, may we forever be stubborn curmudgeons! biggrin.gif


Edited by ianmedium - 6/10/13 at 8:23am
post #2226 of 6694
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmedium View Post

Hmm, well, he slaughtered the T5P's and to be honest I purchased mine after his thoughts on them as I listened to them and could not find one thing he said to be true of them.

I actually think the guy does not listen to music, truly! I have yet to see him mention music in his reviews, he mentions how things sound to him, what the graphs say but nothing about music!

Compare that to someone like Mickey Fremer where you will get a balance of technical and music and the whole point always is how the equipment makes the music musical.

I think this is why this thread has been great, it is about music and how FAD portray it, not a pissing match about graphs.

It has been a quiet backwater away from all that but of course that is changing as FAD get more recognition and the FR brigade with their "if it don't measure well it has to be wrong" stance start rolling in defending their narrow lilttle world outlook on life.

Sorry, I sound harsh but I get fed up with people with a narrow band of opinion that is backed up by science and that don't think outside that ruling the emotions or spirit of others!

That which can be measured or quantified is just the tiniest part of the human experience!

Oh, and I am not taking a pop at you up late, just the whole measurement is God thing and the fact that so many of these people rarely listen the music, sure, they hear it as it is playing but they don't listen

I'm not here to defend Tyll's opinions man but he's in the business of reviewing headphones. it's up to you if you agree with him or not. they're just his opinions and the measurements bring some objectivity to the reviews. and how do you know that he doesn't listen and enjoy music as much as you do? he might be listening to it all day between doing reviews. wink.gif I can't imagine anyone getting into the audio business who didn't start out loving music. i really don't see the problem with headphone measurements as long as we understand fhat they're no substitute for listening. okay? smily_headphones1.gif

and you won't find me in any pissing contest over graphs man. I'm here for the phones to feed me the music I love.
Edited by up late - 6/10/13 at 9:11am
post #2227 of 6694

.


Edited by seeteeyou - 11/4/14 at 11:20pm
post #2228 of 6694

Haven't posted a music link for a little while, but perhaps this is a good time to do so again. No graphs, no effin' nonsense (either way) — here's some real music (no doubt music which will not be appreciated by many), music made specifically for the 160Xs, I'm afraid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2To0Bn4srKI


Edited by music_4321 - 6/10/13 at 8:47am
post #2229 of 6694
Ooo, I like that one mate, I am going to have to find more by her! Thank you for sharing it!
post #2230 of 6694
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

Haven't posted a music link for a little while, but perhaps this is a good time to do so again. No graphs, no effin' nonsense (either way) — here's some real music (no doubt music which will not be appreciated by many), music made specifically for the 160Xs, I'm afraid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2To0Bn4srKI

 

Not quite the 160X, but my Heaven V and my ears thank you. It was as if her soul turned into sonic energy.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmedium View Post
So, I give to you.. MUSIC!!! biggrin.gifbeerchug.gif (OH, and I see the Other music posted just before I posted this, here's to you me grumpy ol' sparrow, may we forever be stubborn curmudgeons! biggrin.gif
 

 

I wish the recording was better. frown.gif

I feel like choir's give a lot of earphones trouble, which makes me sad because I like them.

 


 

 

So I've been on a Scottish folk music kind of a kick and thought I'd share.

 

Andy M. Stewart - Donegal Rain

 

 

Not sure if this is the song I'd like to share but the youtube selection for his stuff is kind of scarce.

post #2231 of 6694
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=nfpG6nVcoCY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DnfpG6nVcoCY

This is a song which I have on a Live album Cara Dillon did for the B&W Society of Sound offering which I liked.
Edited by Ridleyguy - 6/10/13 at 5:16pm
post #2232 of 6694
Morning, and this is a tl;dr material. Please skip it if you think your 10 minutes is worth elsewhere, or you may join my rants now~ 
Today isn't a Sunday, here isn't a church, but I have a confession to make on my recent purchase of FAD PF IX.
 
I was troubled for many months on my habit of listening to sounds. Despite the music playing gloriously in my ear canals, I realized that most of the time my mind keeps on focusing on the little thing. Like how the drums slam, the trumpets blow,the cymbals crash, or any other instruments playing. I enjoyed very much of "looking" at the sounds, and the quality of timbre of the gears. Having Flat-4-Sui really satisfies my craving for these "details", but deep down in my heart, I felt something wasn't right. Something.
 
I first heard the PF VIII during a local meet, alongside with the likes of TG334, JH13/16 demo, and a few others which sounds more "correctly". Before that, I read much about how people describe PF series projecting sepia, retro and quaint feeling, especially from the photo comparison by james444 in the HF-FAD thread. When I played familiar tracks out from the horn-like nozzles, the word "wrong" keeps on popping out of my mind like an alarm triggered. It sounds so wrong on my Bon Jovi, it sounds so wrong on the drums, well, everything but the vocals is off. And that was my maiden experience on PF which left me thinking: Would I get something like that at all?
 
A week ago, I was juggling around a few other choices between TG334, JH13, W4R, Flat-4-Kaede or amps/dacs which is within my pocket depth at that time. I decided to plunge into the "fad" by handing out my extra savings in exchange for the PF IX. I knew I was out of my mind, I kept telling myself am I doing the right thing? I know the only reason which convinced me to go all daring on getting one of the outliers of IEM world.
 
It was the singularity of the sound signature.
 
I realize that for one moment, I wasn't paying attention to the sounds. I am listening to the song as a whole. Honestly, in a typical perspective, PF is one of worst in terms of balance and FR to me. It is all mids. Well, occasionally, I an hear some drums here and there, and a little treble peak from time to time, but the feel is just unique. Gone are the little details which became my OCD, and now I find my music much more enjoyable when I don't have to (and can't) concentrate on finding the little men in the song.
 
I guess it's a confession when i say, I didn't get PF for its superb SQ or anything. But rather, the look and the feel for it. I find the housing elegant like a jewelry, and I'm impressed by its unique presentation. Finally, I can convince my impulsive brain to stop analyzing music, and just sit down in the middle of the mini-hall and hear what the singer is singing, and allow the background music to be just background instead of the focal point.
 
I am weird. Not everybody would agree with me. I took an expensive way to change my music-listening experience. By the way, I saw the word: HI-FI printed on the box, I guess it could've insulted a few people who have different idea on what HIFI should be.
 
Thanks for reading my confession.
post #2233 of 6694
Nice ^honest viewpoint
post #2234 of 6694
yep. I can relate to that.
post #2235 of 6694

A few things I haven't had the chance to comment on recently.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundFreaq View Post

.....Headphoneus Supremus....but I still want to make the post here, my favorite thread......

 

Congrats, SF!!! Very nice speech!

It's mine, too. (And thanks for your kind words as well).

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooperpwc View Post

Damn am I having a great evening with the PF IX.

 

I have had many of those nights, love 'em!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmedium View Post


Thank you German Guy, as I said on the ASP thread I am so happy to have others owning this amp so we can exchange views!

Oh, I wil post this over there as well but here is a shot of this wonderful amp with the PF's and my 801 (oh, and an interloper!) together this lot make such beautiful music!
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


AppleMark

 

 

 

Great photo Ian! I really am looking forward to applying a little of my own 'snake oil'. Now If I can just get some quality tubes.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

 

I think you meant the 1601s? (bolded text). Whenever I speak of the 160Xs, I'm always referring to both the 1601s & 1602s (aka the PFs). I don't find the 1601s to be technically superior to the 1602s, and, FWIW, I find myself reaching more often for my 1602s as, to this day, I'm still surprised at how they manage to grab my ears, heart & body in ways my HD800s, K3003s. 1601SS & FI-BA-SS don't (for some of the music I listen to), hence why I still "need" these unique IEMs. Now, the 1601SS, while very, very close sonically, has a tad more airiness which I think might make me choose them over the 1602SS, but only in the scenario I described in my previous posts ("If I had to choose only one...and X & Y phones did not exist..."), ie while SQ-wise the 1601SS is definitely not placed in the middle between the FI-BA-SS & 1602SS, the 1601SS is just a tad less idiosyncratic / unapologetic, which would allow me to enjoy a bit more music with them.

 

Like you, a lot of the classical music I listen to has been recorded in the 60s, 70s & 80s, though I tend to listen more to chamber & solo music than orchestral / symphonic works. But, no matter what subgenres of classical music, I don't personally find the FI-BA-SS "distracting" and, in fact, it's precisely with orchestral works that I tend (though not always) to prefer them over the 160Xs.

 

 

I'm curious about the 1p2, yes, but not that curious, really (more curious about the Parterre and, to a lesser extent, the much cheaper SonicDiver SD2). Apart from a couple of non-SQ aspects that don't appeal to me much, the 1p2's midrange descriptions by several people make me think I might not be fully convinced as I'm someone who craves and values a good / solid midrange a great deal. Also, my impression is that, although the 1p2 has been hyped quite a bit mostly by a couple of members, the actual sonic differences between it and the K3003s are not as marked as some claim (let's not forget the K3003s have been rather maligned by 2-3 people who, in turn, have been instrumental in the parroting / regurgitating we've seen for quite some time by other members [the so-called incoherence & treble peaks issues mostly]. FWIW, one member who hardly ever posts on the 1p2 thread owned—not just auditioned—both IEMs and decided to keep the AKGs).

As noted a while ago, I'd really love to try the SR-009 (and also the SR-007 Mk I & II), but that won't be happening in the foreseeable future (unless perhaps one day one of my trips to the UK happens to coincide with a HF UK meet…). I honestly wonder, though, whether my ears would tell me that any of those Stax phones would be a marked sonic upgrade over the HD800s to warrant a possible purchase, all the more considering the huge price difference between the Senns & the Stax.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

FYI, according to some ancient manuscripts, the K3003s are bad-karmaproof (I believe it's something to do with certain subtle—but key—differences between the Germans and the Austrians); the 1p2s aren't.

 

(I suggest you try to audition both)

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooperpwc View Post

Music, IwishthatyouwouldstoptalkingabouttheK3003. 

 

(You know that I am in the market for a dynamic or semi-dynamic vented design and those are on the list. I don't need the temptation just now.) 

 

 

So do I(And thanks for your kind words as well).

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

 

We should probably stop here and now... I can foresee how this might end.  wink.gif

 

Awesome as always.

 

 

You're probably right. And thanks!


Edited by woodcans - 6/11/13 at 5:03am
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