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Final Audio Design Impressions and Discussion Thread - Page 12

post #166 of 4403

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

Also has anyone by chance compared the 1350 M1 to the 1350 M2?

 

I'm quite fond of the M1 and feel it never got its due 'round these parts. A very unusual little IEM. I'd like to try the M2 sometime, which seems even less talked about than its little sibling. It's unfortunate the 1350 series, like the 1601 series, is out of production now.

 

I know this is digging back through the thread a little bit, but I thought I might share my 2 cents on these two. I own the M2, and I heard the M1 for a brief time. Comparing these 2 are actually quite difficult unless you own both, mainly because the sound changes as the time passes. I remember the day I first got the M2, I thought it was faulty, and then put it away for 2 months or so.

 

A sizable collection of my music have female vocals (for better or for worse) and when listening to them with the M2 I thought my eardrums were being stabbed, repeatedly. Compared to something, like the Adagio III, I would consider these would be considered biblically anaemic. Very, very little bass presence/impact, whilst in comparison the upper mid -> low mid treble is very forward. It's also quite quick, adding to the lack of warmth. The M1, if anything was more pleasant. Still not much bass impact, but also less offensive for the rest of the sound. I also found that the M1 to not be as detailed than the M2. Now whether that be lack of running time, or even the construction material (I think FAD put something into the M2 to make it less likely to reverberate, and also making it matte at the same time), I can't be sure. 

 

Now more than a year on, and having put more than 150 hours on the M2, the unique sound signature has grown on me a fair bit, to the point where I use it as one of my main earphones (only with the slitted eartips tho). The aforementioned upper mid, low mid treble hotness has calmed down to tolerable levels, and classical music sounds especially good owing to its quick speed. What hasn't changed is how awful it sounds when you use any non-slitted eartips. Imagine being in a bathroom, and listening to music really loudly...that's pretty much what it sounds like. Add to that, those non-slitted tips don't isolate either.

 

I can actually see why it's not been a popular earphone, with M2 being even less so. For one, it was expensive, but more importantly, that sound signature, you either love it, or you get a massive headache. The M1 might be more tolerable, but really, they both go down the same path, one's just a little bit further along...

post #167 of 4403

Good catch on the catalog, SpringBiscuit.

 

I find it interesting that the the descriptions of the Piano Forte VIII-X are so much better than on the web site. They actually make sense! This begs the question: why don't they update the web site accordingly?

post #168 of 4403
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

The Heaven VII is a new one to me. It was not listed in their March catalog.

 

Do you mean Heaven VI? The chrome copper one...

post #169 of 4403

I don't think the guy wearing the Muramasa is the president of FAD... I remember him being older looking...

 

EDIT: I take it back... the age seems about right... he's probably touched up for these photos... he usually wears a pair of big glasses and his hair is quite grey.


Edited by tomscy2000 - 8/3/12 at 7:39am
post #170 of 4403
Let me check i think it states who he is.
 
Yeh he is just a Gaeku Player (dunno what Gaeku is), guessing a instrument.
 
I think MF said that the march catalog had the president.
 

700

 


Edited by Swimsonny - 8/3/12 at 7:39am
post #171 of 4403
Yesterday I went to my box that contains old IEM's and ear tips as I am giving a friend my Triple.fi10's as I simply will never listen to them again now I have the choice between the ER4'S, Heaven S and incoming DT1350's. Anyway, whilst rummaging around the ear tips to give her a selection I came upon some clear/opaque Klipsch ovoid tips.. I had even forgotten that I had some Klipsch IEM's way back!

Cut a long story short for the first time I tried some different tips out on the Heavens. Not done so before as I have been so pleased with the sound. First of some Sony hybrids which did not work well at all. Firstly one of the Heaven's greatest assets the space to perceive individual instruments in the acoustic was lost, it all became a mess. Likewise the way a voice is placed was lost. Listening to Tori Amos's superb album Night of Hunters her voice was pushed back into the acoustic. Also the bass became none existent and the treble screechy.

Next up were the Klipsch tips. It is important that they sit so that the narrow section goes from top to bottom so as to fit the ear correctly. Now this was more like it. Firstly, they seal out external noise better than the stock tips. Secondly they seem to take a tiny tiny amount of treble energy away over the stock tips but lose none of the air or separation. The mids are a touch more creamy and bass a touch more controlled but still with good extension. Now this was the surprise! The actually increased separation of the instruments slightly. I don't mean increasing width but more that the instruments became slightly more defined in the acoustic. Also, and I think this is more to do with insulation, the details became ever-so slightly more detailed, breath a touch more palpable, resonation of strings were quite different. Listening to Tools excellent album Lateralus and the title track one could hear once the guitar string was plucked the decay of the note became more wave like, it is like one could feel the ripples of the note decaying.

These tips only add to the speed and attack of music, they seem to take the stock tips and improve ever-so slightly overall. I think the isolation here is the secret!
Patricia Barbers track Summertime which is the other end of the musical spectrum has a greater sense of peace and calm and as she hums her vocal has ever-so slightly less sibilance than with the stock tips, I only notice the stock tips have some sibilance because of these Klipsch tips, if i had not tried them I would have been in blissful ignorance!

I love the way these phones handle emotion in the music, how they hold the space for the artist to shine and for the songs story to develop. Now, if you want something very special then go to Solti's ring cycle and be prepared for the hair to stand up on the back of your neck!

For my ears these tips are a keeper and have now made the stock tips redundant. If you have a set laying around give them a go and see if you get similar results!
post #172 of 4403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swimsonny View Post  Yeh he is just a Gaeku Player (dunno what Gaeku is), guessing a instrument.

 

Wikipedia is your friend.

post #173 of 4403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swimsonny View Post

Oh so this is a new catalog. It does clearly say they are due for release in september so i doubt it would lie about that and the numerical listing make sense.

 

 

700

However it does look like they are keeping the other two older heavens though. however i do not  think a whole line consisting of IEMs in the same design will go well. Also whats the chances of a FI_BA_SS successor with a numerical value? ;)

 

Hmm, he is wearing the Muramasa on the front page and the line up does say 'earphone' line up so maybe not.

 

 

A few things:

 

1. It's not a matter of "lying" so much as plans change and lineups get shuffled. Products get pushed back and canned despite having definite release dates. Happens all the time.

 

2. As for the Heaven C and S, I can clearly see they're listed in the catalog still, of course. I said I could see them eventually phasing those two out in favor of the newer Heaven models. These things don't happen over night.

 

3. The FI-BA-SS is not part of the Heaven series.

 

4. The fact of the matter is the Muramasa VIII is no longer in production and not going to be released, something I knew to begin with from speaking to FAD themselves, so the comment about the back page was more of an aside, like "oh I see they've removed it now" as it is listed in the March issue.

post #174 of 4403
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooperpwc View Post

 

Do you mean Heaven VI? The chrome copper one...

 

Looking at the image (which isn't very big on my monitor) it looks like Heaven VII and not Heaven VI.

post #175 of 4403
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post


A few things:

1. It's not a matter of "lying" so much as plans change and lineups get shuffled. Products get pushed back and canned despite having definite release dates. Happens all the time.

2. As for the Heaven C and S, I can clearly see they're listed in the catalog still, of course. I said I could see them eventually phasing those two out in favor of the newer Heaven models. These things don't happen over night.

3. The FI-BA-SS is not part of the Heaven series.

4. The fact of the matter is the Muramasa VIII is no longer in production and not going to be released, something I knew to begin with from speaking to FAD themselves, so the comment about the back page was more of an aside, like "oh I see they've removed it now" as it is listed in the March issue.


Do you think they would phase out the older Heavens based purely on economics as they are made in Japan and the others are made in countries where I would imagine their profit margins are greater, if so that would be a shame as for me, call it silly, there has always been something I have liked about products made in Japan. I always associate quality, quirkiness and attention to detail with Japanese products which seem to fit my personality traits to a T!

Oh yes Muppet, I have been away for quite a while so forgive me if this has been asked before, did you get your Murmansa's? I was sorry to see they are not going ahead with them any more as I love stuff like this!
Edited by ianmedium - 8/3/12 at 8:05am
post #176 of 4403
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

 

Looking at the image (which isn't very big on my monitor) it looks like Heaven VII and not Heaven VI.

 

I downloaded the PDF and zoomed it into 400% --- it is indeed the VI --- I thought it looked like VII from the small JPEGs as well...

 

From the descriptions of the Heaven II and VI, it looks like the Heaven II might possibly cost even less than the IV? It doesn't seem to have BAM, and it seems like it uses a new BA driver (less sensitive).

 

The Heaven VI seems to be the improved IV... though, I'm guessing it's the prototype tuning with housing improvements...

post #177 of 4403
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

 

 

A few things:

 

1. It's not a matter of "lying" so much as plans change and lineups get shuffled. Products get pushed back and canned despite having definite release dates. Happens all the time.

 

I phrased it wrong with lie but this close to launch it will likely not get pushed back to far, i mean they look set to launch dont they!

 

2. As for the Heaven C and S, I can clearly see they're listed in the catalog still, of course. I said I could see them eventually phasing those two out in favor of the newer Heaven models. These things don't happen over night.

 

I know this, i was just saying they will not be discontinued yet, most things get discontinued at one stage. Even the mighty Beyerdynamic DT48 after 75 years of production.

 

3. The FI-BA-SS is not part of the Heaven series.

 

Oh, my mistake the catalog was a bit misleading with that:

 

 

700

 

 

4. The fact of the matter is the Muramasa VIII is no longer in production and not going to be released, something I knew to begin with from speaking to FAD themselves, so the comment about the back page was more of an aside, like "oh I see they've removed it now" as it is listed in the March issue.

 

Oh but you always knew it was unlikely to be a steady member of the line up because of the limited made.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

 

I downloaded the PDF and zoomed it into 400% --- it is indeed the VI --- I thought it looked like VII from the small JPEGs as well...

 

From the descriptions of the Heaven II and VI, it looks like the Heaven II might possibly cost even less than the IV? It doesn't seem to have BAM, and it seems like it uses a new BA driver (less sensitive).

 

The Heaven VI seems to be the improved IV... though, I'm guessing it's the prototype tuning with housing improvements...

Yes sorry, the print screens are a bit blurry.

 

Yes, by the looks of things the II will be bottom of the line, another indicator is the lack of the case that the other two numerical heavens have.

 

And yes that is what they are saying.

post #178 of 4403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swimsonny View Post

I phrased it wrong with lie but this close to launch it will likely not get pushed back to far, i mean they look set to launch dont they!

 

Trust me, things get pushed back and canceled at the last minute all the time, especially with a small company like FAD. There have been no formal announcements of the Heaven II and Heaven VI outside of these catalogs which don't have much of a distribution, so they don't look particularly "set" to launch to me based on my experience with this stuff. Usually we get some kind of actual announcement the month leading up to a release. With the Heaven IV for instance, we had YouTube videos and third party vendors announcing their forthcoming supply. Not saying it won't happen this September, however I'm also not confident enough to act like it's a sure thing. Call it a hunch.

 

 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Swimsonny View Post

I know this, i was just saying they will not be discontinued yet, most things get discontinued at one stage. Even the mighty Beyerdynamic DT48 after 75 years of production.

 

Again, I'm basing this off of my actual experience with FAD. When the 1602 Piano Forte lineup was announced, they still had the 1601 models in supply and listed prominently on their website. Even after the 1602s had been out for a year or so, the 1601 were only just then discontinued. FAD has a tendency to release new products while keeping their older lineup in circulation for a while before dropping them. When the Heaven C was released, they still had the Heaven A around for a few months despite it being the same earphone essentially (just with a different housing). Similarly, it would not surprise me to see the Heaven C and S in circulation for a while once the newer Heavens are released, before finally being discontinued.

 

In contrast, a company like Denon discontinues their D7000 flagship before releasing the D7100. Obviously every product gets discontinued at some point, however we're talking about discontinuation with respect to one product replacing another in a lineup specifically.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swimsonny View Post

Oh but you always knew it was unlikely to be a steady member of the line up because of the limited made.

 

The Muramasa VIII isn't just "limited." It's non existent. It was discontinued right after production began and none of the few that were made were put into circulation.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

 

I downloaded the PDF and zoomed it into 400% --- it is indeed the VI --- I thought it looked like VII from the small JPEGs as well...

 

From the descriptions of the Heaven II and VI, it looks like the Heaven II might possibly cost even less than the IV? It doesn't seem to have BAM, and it seems like it uses a new BA driver (less sensitive).

 

The Heaven VI seems to be the improved IV... though, I'm guessing it's the prototype tuning with housing improvements...

 

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

 

It would make sense for the VI to have the prototype's more "fun" tuning that was dropped at the last minute for the production IV. Especially going by FAD's precedent of making their higher models more overtly colored.

 

post #179 of 4403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swimsonny View Post

...the VI has a chrome copper finish.

 

No, they are saying that the housing is chrome copper. That and 'taking the BAM mechanism to a higher level' will result in 'the first balanced armature IEM to perfectly reproduce the sound of the human voice'.

 

It sounds like the Heaven VI could be a new top of the line BA IEM for Final Audio and potentially pricey. Sticking with the Heaven series cable seems a bit of a shame then. (Or is this cable better than it looks?)

post #180 of 4403
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooperpwc View Post

 

No, they are saying that the housing is chrome copper. That and 'taking the BAM mechanism to a higher level' will result in 'the first balanced armature IEM to perfectly reproduce the sound of the human voice'.

 

It sounds like the Heaven VI could be a new top of the line BA IEM for Final Audio and potentially pricey. Sticking with the Heaven series cable seems a bit of a shame then. (Or is this cable better than it looks?)

 

I have a feeling the FI-BA-SS is still going to be their top BA, with the Heaven VI replacing the Heaven S. The Heaven IV is $200, so the Heaven VI could be anywhere from $400 to $700 and I wouldn't be too surprised.

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