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Final Audio Design Impressions and Discussion Thread - Page 103

post #1531 of 4403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idsynchrono_24 View Post

I liked the paranoia and rawness of OoS (Love how unhinged things get on "Darkshines"), Absolution is really polished but kinda schmaltzy lyrically. I mean Matt is no poet or anything, but that album is a bit cringe inducing at times, though, thankfully, nowhere near as bad as modern day Muse. From Black Holes onwards, I refuse to acknowledge that any of those albums exist

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

The only two albums my Muse I really like—love, in fact—are "Origin of Symmetry" (OoS) and the follow up to that, "Absolution"; I think the former is pretty close to a masterpiece and is my favourite Muse album, love every single track on it even when the recording/mastering ain't that great (I believe it was recorded live in studio), but it captures a pretty unique vibe, raw power, intensity, with quite a bit of inspiration (the muse!) that was lost, in my view, after "Absolution".

 

I love those albums as well. While I do like their new stuff, it is quite different from their earlier work, certainly missing a fair amount of bolded.


Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

 

Not too sure Muse would be regarded as prog, tbh — I think they refer to that genre as "alternative" (just like they do with the music of Radiohead & Placebo), whatever that means, but you can tell Muse (and Radiohead) have listened to, an quite possibly been influenced by, (good) so-called prog bands.

 

True.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post
this, FWIW, is possibly my all-time favourite Muse track (from the OoS album): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiHUKVoYbdc
 

Possibly mine as well. Absolutely love it. I have a few live perfomances of this on video and Matt uses a 7 string guitar for the song, which fascinates me for some reason. I have it on vinyl as well, and is quite an experience via analog.

post #1532 of 4403
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

This one, I feel, is yet another job more suitable for the FI-BA-SS / FI-BA-SB: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YciBfhO1JZU

 

Excellent. And aptly titled as well. One of my mentors turned me on to them. I'm about to go dig out the albums I have, I hope I can find them.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

(Ah, to think this 19-year-old young lad had a free ticket for this performance given to him by his girlfriend [who couldn't attend] at the time. The truth is I wasn't really interested in the gig and completely forgot about it! Turns out the concert was later released [on vinyl], heard this one track and kicked myself)

 

The only live performances I've regretted thus far were the ones I didn't attend.

 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

woodcans, FWIW, "Back in Black" is the only AC/DC album I like / have kept (don't like the whole album, but do enjoy 3-4 tracks quite a bit)

 

 

It's their only album I keep coming back to occasionally. That and the tracks Thunderstruck and Who Made Who.


Edited by woodcans - 4/30/13 at 4:13pm
post #1533 of 4403

So much for being "possibly different", as expected, transient speed, soundstage etc. all not shown on FR will be the same as the design is exact. 

 

post #1534 of 4403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

So much for being "possibly different", as expected, transient speed, soundstage etc. all not shown on FR will be the same as the design is exact. 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

Yes, Inks, as you clearly stated in a different thread 4 weeks ago: "The Piano Fortes are crap IMO. It's one of those cases where some will place in the argument that it's an acquired taste or special sound, but I can say the same for the Apple earbuds, if only they had an exclusive price tag and shiny housing."

 

 

----------------------

 

 

Last post of the day for me. The PF IXs, as is often the case, simply doing what they do best: sometimes tapping into music like no other phone I've heard — this one from the same album ("Exposure") I spoke about in my previous post (best version of this song I've ever heard): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdwLhu9bZAE


Edited by music_4321 - 4/30/13 at 2:23pm
post #1535 of 4403
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post
 The PF IXs, as is often the case, simply doing what they do best: sometimes tapping into music like no other phone I've heard — this one from the same album ("Exposure") I spoke about in my previous post (best version of this song I've ever heard): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdwLhu9bZAE

 

Thank you once again for sharing. I really appreciate your time and effort, and I am thoroughly enjoying expanding my musical horizons.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

Last post of the day for me. 

 

Last classic rock post of the day for me. As a Led Zep fan, I have listened to their albums more times than I can count, so many that I don't listen that much any more. But 'In My Time of Dying' from Celebration Day sounds quite special through the PF IXs. Highly recommended.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

So much for being "possibly different", as expected, transient speed, soundstage etc. all not shown on FR will be the same as the design is exact. 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As an audiophile of many, many years, and one with a degree in engineering, I certainly appreciate graphs and all measurements. But my training combined with my listening experiences (both live and recorded) has led me to the conclusion that without a doubt, what we currently are capable of measuring with respect to sound reproduction, is only a small piece of the pie. This will be my last post regarding measurements.


Edited by woodcans - 4/30/13 at 3:29pm
post #1536 of 4403
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodcans View Post

 

As an audiophile of many, many years, and one with a degree in engineering, I certainly appreciate graphs and all measurements. But my training combined with my listening experiences (both live and recorded) has led me to the conclusion that without a doubt, what we currently are capable of measuring with respect to sound reproduction, is only a small piece of the pie. This will be my last post regarding measurements.

 

It shouldn't be. You should preach that far and wide across these forums. That is one of the most important things you can learn as an audiophile. Unfortunately, it's like parents imparting wisdom to their kids. Unless you experience it for yourself, you may not learn it. 

post #1537 of 4403
I agree with woodcans and SF. Measurements are only part of the story and I like to think of them as the beginning of it. There is a heck of a lot between that point and the full picture and none of it can be measured.

So many products are lambasted and forgotten on this forum because they do not measure how the majority think they should or the so-called experts who's word it seems is God around here! But oh so many times I have listened to equipment they praise and that measures wonderfully only to be left cold with it.

The problem is this is all a fairly new state of affairs. When I first started out in HiFi there were so many places one could go to listen to equipment. You would read a review in a magazine, they would do measurements and then give their opinion on that equipment and quite often something that did not measure well came out well in the review due to the sound quality. One would go armed with that to the local HIFi store and then listen for oneself and either agree or disagree with the review but at no time was the review taken as a given and a product purchased solely on that review. Always the purchase was made on what it sounded like in the dealers or at home if they offered home demonstrations.

There has been created a new beast with the advent of forums. Experts who are not answerable to anyone, who set their own rules and use the power of persuasion to convince knowing the person is unlikely to be able to hear the equipment before purchase. They also know that people are fallible and chances are that having invested so much they are unlikely to comment negatively so as not to look foolish amongst the peers on the forum.

So now we have forum experts who are not answerable to editors and who on the whole have very large ego's as they get a niche of followers to support them. The worst place on this forum for that is the sound science forum where a bunch of unaccountable folks hiding behind their computer screens pontificate and make statements that they are not held accountable to by peer's, only other members who's credentials cannot be verified!

At the end of this long winded rant is this simple statement. Listen with your own ears, they never lie. Try to go to local meets to hear equipment if you cannot hear it locally in stores. If that is not possible then take reviews (and I include my reviews and thoughts in that as I am fallible and have human emotion) with a great big pinch of salt. Also, try to seek thoughts outside of forums, not just this one, try to get views from recognized media, they are not perfect but they are held to a lot more accountability than the average forum member is!

All that to say just do not take graphs or measurements for granted or as an absolute!
post #1538 of 4403

post #1539 of 4403
Once there is an understanding of the graph it all makes sense, what's there is there. Subjectively liking a product is one thing but placebo just because of a different shell color is another...
post #1540 of 4403
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

 

Since you seem to be quite interested in the FI-BA-SS (or its 'budget' sibling, the FI-BA-SB) and you also like OoS, you may like this track where the FADs do a pretty impressive job; the lyrics are based on a true story — this music is quite different from that found OsS, but not completely…well... er…this is an album I regard as a true masterpiece in the full sense of the word (released 13 years before OoS, with much more meaningful and mature lyrics, btw): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqBaDg7kj3M

Good stuff :).  I've never actually listened to Frissel's solo stuff, but I'm familiar with his work with King Crimson. And yes, one of these days, I'll have a FAD of my own. There are currently a few other phones on the horizon beckoning me with their siren's song. If anything, I'll pick up a Heaven S on the cheap as a primer (well, let's be honest G. you made them out to be much more than that!) I gotta say, I enjoy having this thread in my feed if only for the lovely pics that keep popping up! 

post #1541 of 4403
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodcans View Post

Now this is something I prefer. It has a macabre feel to it.

post #1542 of 4403
sorrry but i gotta disagree with woodcans and music. the piano fortes that I tried didn't have that level of clarity. if you want a crystalline sound and micro detail in spades then reach for the fi-ba-ss.
post #1543 of 4403
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodcans View Post


As an audiophile of many, many years, and one with a degree in engineering, I certainly appreciate graphs and all measurements. But my training combined with my listening experiences (both live and recorded) has led me to the conclusion that without a doubt, what we currently are capable of measuring with respect to sound reproduction, is only a small piece of the pie. This will be my last post regarding measurements.

Not to undermine measurements used today and their usefulness (I really enjoy learning more about them), but this, this, and this.

It would be pretty presumptuous to assume anything but this. There are probably nuances with variables nearing a practical infinity down to the quantum level. I consider current measurements as a limited overview.
post #1544 of 4403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

Once there is an understanding of the graph it all makes sense, what's there is there. Subjectively liking a product is one thing but placebo just because of a different shell color is another...

 

What is insulting about your posts is not only that you insist that most, if not all, of us do not understand graphs, but that if we did, we would not like these (and other) phones and that all of us simply like (or even love) these Piano Fortes because they're shiny, expensive, Japanese, exclusive, and so on.

In your narrow-minded, and quite frankly ever more and more fundamentalist, point of view the more a phone deviates from the frequency response of the ER-4S, the worse—the "crappier", to use your own word— it is. There is a reason why not everyone likes the ER-4S/P as much as other phones—even when some may own a pair, still enjoy it and perhaps even have a reasonable amount of respect for Etymotic—and it is not only because people don't manage to get a good fit or seal or because today's people's music tastes are all about "da bass".

You obviously haven't read several posts in this thread where, among other things, it's been said that FAD clearly intended these "crap" Piano Fortes to sound the crappy way they do and that this "crap" wasn't for everyone.

 

I'll finish off quoting something I wrote just over a year ago after a couple of exchanges you and I had on the EX1000 thread and other things I'd seen on HF:

 

"The best sex manual does not make you a good lover. The best driving manual does not make you good driver. The best music book/manual does not make you a good musician. Playing an instrument does not make you a musician. Playing an instrument for 20 years does not make you a musician. Practising an instrument for 4-8 hours a day does not make you a musician. Not all music is Music. Creativity is often misunderstood. Egos often get in the way of Music. Emotion is misunderstood -- it is both underrated and overrated."

FR graphs are that, FR graphs -- they are (very) useful but limited -- they can even be very limited. And this is NOT about the all-too-comfy comment: "We all have our sound preferences" or "It's all just a matter of different opinions"

 

Now, please do carry on with your often condescending tone where you feel you have to lecture people and keep telling them that it's all placebo... and... well... all the rest of it.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by up late View Post

sorrry but i gotta disagree with woodcans and music. the piano fortes that I tried didn't have that level of clarity. if you want a crystalline sound and micro detail in spades then reach for the fi-ba-ss.

 

Earlier, you said, "listening to the piano fortes is like looking at the world through (sepia?) tinted glasses", and then woodcans said, "there is more crystalline-like clarity and vividness than implied by sepia" and I agreed with woodcans' comment. That's not the same as saying the clarity levels of the PFs and FI-BA-SS, for instance, are the same (at least that's how I see it). There's clarity and then there's clarity, perhaps unrealistic clarity, too many details where things may begin to sound rather unnatural for some people. Clarity is one aspect combined with other aspects which create the full sound / colour / character /presentation of a phone.

 

Your original comment / opinion is still very valid, though.

post #1545 of 4403
It's insane how FR are taken out of context, not going to bother explaining.

Like I said, while its clearly not a good result there's nothing wrong with liking them, though personally I find it wrong to call them hi-fi or anything of the sort, it's a specialized sound.

The main point I was also making is that I was right, VIII=IX, even outside of fr...
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