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Final Audio Design Impressions and Discussion Thread - Page 82

post #1216 of 4362
The vast majority of music I listen to falls under the rock genre. Everything from classic to alt/punk/electronic etc. I came to appreciate the PF's listening to such music. For example Awolnation's Megalthic Symphony sounds great through these. I don't think these are necessarily limited to things that would sound great in a church, I think the scope is a bit more broad.
post #1217 of 4362
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodcans View Post

I don't think these are necessarily limited to things that would sound great in a church, I think the scope is a bit more broad.

 

Agreed, I don't mean to say they're limited to that, just give an opinion on what suits them best.

 

I don't listen much to rock, but most rockers I know would probably prefer a faster decay.

post #1218 of 4362

I think I'm more with woodcans on this one. 7 months ago I linked to 3 tracks from Kanye West's (hip hop artist) excellent album, "MBDTF". I've also linked to several tracks on this thread where I've found myself enjoying the PF IXs a hell of a lot that were not the sort of music james444 mentions. However, with KW's album, for instance, if sub-bass is very much your thing, there's a pretty good chance you'll say, "Where's that f***ing deep bass, man!?"

However, I think James does have a point, though, when he points to some music that would be more adequate / easily likeable (read: less of a shock, music that would not present such problems for adapting to, or accepting, the PF IX's unique sonics).

post #1219 of 4362
Getting no deep bass is my problem with the Tera /Miracle pairing...and it does annoy me a lot, so I might pass...excellent album indeed. Tried the latest Kendrick Lamar ?
post #1220 of 4362
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimouille View Post

Getting no deep bass is my problem with the Tera /Miracle pairing...and it does annoy me a lot, so I might pass...excellent album indeed. Tried the latest Kendrick Lamar ?

 

Well, there you go, the PF IXs are not for you.

 

Not really into hip hop myself, but "MBDTF" is certainly one ofo the best albums I've heard in the last 5 years. Will check out your recommendation, though.

 

Now, I love this track on the PF IXs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGC9Lji2JLw

post #1221 of 4362
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

 

One of the FAD 1601's and 1602's (PF's) most characteristic acoustic properties is unusually long decay/reverb from their metal chambers. Thus my short description of what works best with them would be: "basically everything that sounds great in a church". For example acoustic, vocal or choral music, things like that.

 

Going only on my limited but very enjoyable exposure to them (thanks to your generous loan tour), I'd have to say you've identified their strongest distinguishing trait.

 

They can literally create space that might not exist in the recording.

post #1222 of 4362

This is a good thread. Always fun to catch up.

post #1223 of 4362

I am in the 'those are tiny Japanese transistor radios inside the PF IX' camp. Circa 1960s to be more precise. 

 

I'm not kidding.  biggrin.gif

post #1224 of 4362
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmedium View Post
 
...i think the comments of the person [emailing] you speaks volumes of how terrible is ability is to hear quality sound reproduction, no matter how esoteric that is.

 

Not really sure that is the case here. FWIW, this is how I see it and will use an analogy to illustrate what I mean: I reside in a country whose food is regarded as some of the best in the planet (or so the experts say, and I happen to agree with said experts). Now, people here are simply not generally interested in trying food from other ('more exotic') countries. To them, given the choice, such food is "crap" or just not good enough. I, for instance, happen to appreciate some good curry, and I'm not talking about the 'English' variety, but curry Indian people themselves would have/enjoy (though I've never been to India) — I enjoy very spicy food. There was an authentic Mexican restaurant (not Tex-Mex) here a while ago which was absolutely brilliant, with a real Mexican chef (not a cook, ie authentic quality Mexican food being served). The place closed after 2 years; when I asked the (Mexican) owner why, he said the locals were not interested in his food and it was mostly foreigners who appreciated it — apparently not enough foreigners to keep him going.

 

I suppose to this fellow experienced HF'er, the SR-009s / HD800s are the equivalent of fine French food, and the PF IXs perhaps more like some 'exotic' but wrong-tasting food, or for all you know, maybe worse, just a cheap burger and chips fried in recycled oil! I think his comments were far too harsh but I could understand where he was coming from. No biggie in my book. He loves fine French cuisine only. I love fine French, Spanish, Italian, Indian, Mexican,...and even some fine English cuisine (yes, there seems to be such thing as fine English food!)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmedium View Post
 
You post comes at an interesting time for a couple of reasons for me. One is that only today I was reading Sterophile and the reviewer of whom I have a lot of regard was bemoaning how peoples Idea of what good bass is nowadays is so far off what good bass is that it is almost painful. Like everything in this modern world it is extremes that matter more it seems rather than subtleties

 

I agree there's a tendency for extreme / enhanced bass in today's popular music, but I can't help feeling there's a bit of snobbery in comments like the one from Stereophile.

 

Now, I listen to plenty of classical music, but I generally don't enjoy the atmosphere around classical concerts and even the behaviour / attitude expected /demanded of classically trained musicians when performing in public. As much as I dislike most (popular) music I hear around me, there's still 'good' music even in such genres as hip hop or even your Pop Idol type of music. Also, let's not forget a lot of this is a cultural thing, or perhaps now, thanks to globalisation, a sign of the times. Take Punk rock, for instance; it's not my favourite type of music, either, but it was fresh at the time, a necessary shock to some of the music that had become a joke with bands like ELP and Yes, perhaps even The Stones or Led Zeppelin — to this day I find Anarchy in the UK by the Sex Pistols a brilliant track. Unfortunately, the Punk movement kinda took over in Britain's popular music culture for a while, which then led to the so-called Indie type of music, and suddenly some very good music became maligned, buried, mocked, not allowed to surface. The English music press, very good in the past, started to become 'decadent', pretentious and...absolutely empty. Oh, all those egos...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmedium View Post
 
Personally in life I have found the subtle moments far more profound than the wiz bang moments. The PF's for me are in the subtle camp, just like a good horn speaker and low powered SET amp they will not wow with pyrotechnics but they will draw you in even though you may feel that is madness. The Norm now is that the population en masse has become so desensitized that only wiz bang will work!

On the whole, I'm with you on this one. The PFs for me, in a way, are rather unassuming yet very true, with a quality to them that simply draws me in unexpected and mysterious ways.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmedium View Post
 
Of late I have become somewhat despondent with this forum. This is in the main for me because it seems that what is normal now is the norm here and I swear a great many people simply have no idea what natural or realistic sound is anymore. If it is not pumping earth shattering bass or treble to cut glass with then a headphone is crap or it is rolled off or it is bass light and for me the article I read this morning really made me realize this here.

 

I share your sentiment here. Even though I have the HD600 & HD800 (and V200), I have no intention of posting in the full-sized headphones forum (or amps forum) — I don't like what I see there. Then again, I don't like a lot of what I see in this forum, either, but I still feel more at home here, even if I post on very few threads.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmedium View Post
 
The second part is that because the PF's for me have changed how I listen to music, how I appreciate it, brought me back to how i used to listen BCD (Before CD!) I sought out a closed back full sized headphone for the days when I needed isolation. After searching and listening I ended up the the Beyerdynamic T5P. A headphone that when I got it and exchanged PM's with a local member the response was, "Arn't they too bright and no bass?" A response I have seen all to often here and to my ears absolute nonsense!

On Sunday I decided to do back to back listening between the 5P's and the PF's. It confirmed what I had hoped, that I found in a closed headphone something almost the same in terms of musical engagement and emotion.
I have begun to realize that natural round here means extensions in the frequency ranges, almost to comical levels. Its like everyone is on MSG!

 

In my case, the HD800 is the #1 phone, followed by the K3003 — meaning that if forced to choose one or two, those would be my choices. None of these sound remotely close to the PF IXs, but it seems I need my PF IXs, like I need orange marmalade and a double macchiato with my breakfast, something I can't do without (perhaps not the best analogy).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmedium View Post
 
Now, before the pitchforks come out let me say, if MSG is your thing hey, great more power to you but do not for one minute tell me MSG is good or the way all things should be. If we move to far away from a non exagerated sound we will end up as we have where people cannot hear a difference between compressed music and uncompressed music.
 
Headphones it seems have gone the way of reality TV round here, if its not in your face, if its not extreme or shocking then it ain't good.

 

Now, I think that's taking things a bit too far (the MSG thing), but I think I can see where you're coming from. I definitely agree many people don't recognise good sound, or even the sound of real instruments (!), but I think there are some pretty good phones out there that render music very adequately. Probably my first recommendation to someone seeking an excellent sounding IEM—and not spend a fortune in the process—would be the excellent Sony MDR-7550 (which can now be found somewhere in Europe for 150 euros — no "pyrotechnics" here, just brilliant sonics all round and a type of sound that's not very coloured at all, ie a very faithful sounding phone, in my view, and a completely ignored and neglected phone at that, at least here on HF.


Edited by music_4321 - 4/10/13 at 7:19am
post #1225 of 4362
Yep. That's what they reminded me of cooperpwc. Too compressed sounding for tubes.
Edited by up late - 4/10/13 at 7:17am
post #1226 of 4362

I love this, Ian!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmedium View Post

[snip]
Like everything in this modern world it is extremes that matter more it seems rather than subtleties.
[snip]
The Norm now is that the population en masse has become so desensitized that only wiz bang will work!
[snip]
...if its not in your face, if its not extreme or shocking then it ain't good.

[snip]

 

+100

 

Walk into any retail electronics store that sells televisions and you'll see that somebody has adjusted the "Color" (saturation) to the moon on every display, not to mention getting the "Tint" wrong.

 

I can only conclude that Joe Consumer actually wants to see day-glow orange skin tones!

 

"Fine art" photography is the same, with effects like HDR (high dynamic range) used to outrageous excess - but it's popular.  

 

Audio is no different.  There's a huge market for exaggerations of reality.  My co-worker's Ultrasone Pro 900 comes to mind.  That thing will literally bang on your head from both sides.

 

blink.gif

 

So a hearty congratulations on your success with finding full-size headphones that simply don't go there!

 

See my recent post regarding the Beyerdynamic T1's lack of popularity.

 

Mike

post #1227 of 4362
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

Not really sure that is the case here. FWIW, this is how I see it and will use an analogy to illustrate what I mean: I reside in a country whose food is regarded as some of the best in the planet (or so the experts say, and I happen to agree with said experts). Now, people here are simply not generally interested in trying food from other ('more exotic') countries. To them, given the choice, such food is "crap" or just not good enough. I, for instance, happen to appreciate some good curry, and I'm not talking about the 'English' variety, but curry Indian people themselves would have/enjoy (though I've never been to India) — I enjoy very spicy food. There was an authentic Mexican restaurant (not Tex-Mex) here a while ago which was absolutely brilliant, with a real Mexican chef (not a cook, ie authentic quality Mexican food being served). The place closed after 2 years; when I asked the (Mexican) owner why, he said the locals were not interested in his food and it was mostly foreigners who appreciated it — apparently not enough foreigners to keep him going.

 

I suppose to this fellow experienced HF'er, the SR-009s / HD800s are the equivalent of fine French food, and the PF IXs perhaps more like some 'exotic' but wrong-tasting food, or for all you know, maybe worse, just a cheap burger and chips fried in recycled oil! I think his comments were far too harsh but I could understand where he was coming from. No biggie in my book. He loves fine French cuisine only. I love fine French, Spanish, Italian, Indian, Mexican,...and even some fine English cuisine (yes, there seems to be such thing as fine English food!)

 

 

I agree there's a tendency for extreme / enhanced bass in today's popular music, but I can't help feeling there's a bit of snobbery in comments like the one from Stereophile.

 

Now, I listen to plenty of classical music, but I generally don't enjoy the atmosphere around classical concerts and even the behaviour / attitude expected /demanded of classically trained musicians when performing in public. As much as I dislike most (popular) music I hear around me, there's still 'good' music even in such genres as hip hop or even your Pop Idol type of music. Also, let's not forget a lot of this is a cultural thing, or perhaps now, thanks to globalisation, a sign of the times. Take Punk rock, for instance; it's not my favourite type of music, either, but it was fresh at the time, a necessary shock to some of the music that had become a joke with bands like ELP and Yes, perhaps even The Stones or Led Zeppelin — to this day I find Anarchy in the UK by the Sex Pistols a brilliant track. Unfortunately, the Punk movement kinda took over in Britain's popular music culture for a while, which then led to the so-called Indie type of music, and suddenly some very good music became maligned, buried, mocked, not allowed to surface. The English music press, very good in the past, started to become 'decadent', pretentious and...absolutely empty. Oh, all those egos...

 

On the whole, I'm with you on this one. The PFs for me, in a way, are rather unassuming yet very true, with a quality to them that simply draws me in unexpected and mysterious ways.

 

 

I share your sentiment here. Even though I have the HD600 & HD800 (and V200), I have no intention of posting in the full-sized headphones forum (or amps forum) — I don't like what I see there. Then again, I don't like a lot of what I see in this forum, either, but I still feel more at home here, even if I post on very few threads.

 

 

In my case, the HD800 is the #1 phone, followed by the K3003 — meaning that if forced to choose one or two, those would be my choices. None of these sound remotely close to the PF IXs, but it seems I need my PF IXs, like I need orange marmalade and a double macchiato with my breakfast, something I can't do without (perhaps not the best analogy).

 

 

Now, I think that's taking things a bit too far (the MSG thing), but I think I can see where you're coming from. I definitely agree many people don't recognise good sound, or even the sound of real instruments (!), but I think there are some pretty good phones out there that render music very adequately. Probably my first recommendation to someone seeking an excellent sounding IEM—and not spend a fortune in the process—would be the excellent Sony MDR-7550 (which can now be found somewhere in Europe for 150 euros — no "pyrotechnics" here, just brilliant sonics all round and a type of sound that's not very coloured at all, ie a very faithful sounding phone, in my view, and a completely ignored and neglected phone at that, at least here on HF.

 

 

 

 

Awesome Post Music!

 

Very nice reading........

post #1228 of 4362
Great thoughts music, I agree I was being a bit "over passionate" with some of my thoughts there biggrin.gif for what it's worth I am not only a classic music buff. I was at one the first gig the pistols did in Devon popgoing my brains out, same with the undertones, clash and others.. Yes, I am that old! A permenant fixture in my collection is never mind the bollocks! I find the PF's capture Johnny's snarl nicely!

Post punk I got into the whole electronic/ new romance thing, did A&R for some of the bands at the time which was brief but fun then went into working with Prefab Sprout for their first album, now that for me was a genius group, to this day I reckon Paddy is one of the greatest songwriters of the 20th century!

All along though Classical, especially Wagner, ran deep through my veins and I maintain there are aspects of punk and early electronic that had influence from that, certainly I know ultravox was, especially midge.
post #1229 of 4362
Thanks Mike, Will check out the T1 thread in a mo'!

For purposes of clarity regarding my last post so that it does not come across quite as glamorous and more honestly. In the early eighties for A&R read sitting in the back of a cold commer minibus who's heater had given up the ghost in 1970 selling copies of the groups albums to fans after the gig! In that two year period I think I traveled just about every A road in Britain accompanied by the fragrant smells of a band just coming from a sweaty gig and sleeping in the luxurious accommodation provided by the record company.. Said Commer van biggrin.gif And further in pursuit of honesty, read working on PS's first album as unpaid tea boy occasionally allowed to twiddle the knobs in the vein hope of getting into the business which I never did until i was in my forties... Mind, I still get the ruddy tea! rolleyes.gif
post #1230 of 4362
+1...and now I want to get them again....
Quote:
Originally Posted by spkrs01 View Post

Awesome Post Music!

Very nice reading........
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