Final Audio Design Appreciation/Discussion Thread - Page 61

 

What's this, the PFs are out of focus!

 

Just joking, congrats on your new tube amp!

James. I was wondering when someone would pick up on that

Man, I have just depleted the batteries on the amp. Oh boy oh boy oh boy. Tubes and the PF's are truly a match made in heaven. I truly do not want to say this but I have to. familiar recordings, ones I have known for years I am having to get to know all over again and this amp just shows how truly groundbreaking the PF's are.

I feel safe in saying this. If you have not heard these through a truly great amp then you have not heard half of what they are capable of. My respect and love for these earphones has reached new levels. as has my respect for the CLAS.

I was actually in tears listening to Steve Earls rendition of Pancho and Lefty from the Townes album.. In tears!!!

 

Very interesting...!

 

Awesome!  Don't get your tubes wet!  

Mike! I tell you mate, I wish you were closer by I would love for you and Paul to listen to this. I just had a note from Shikada-San the designer and maker of the amp to say that all should be bedded in nicely after 100 hours. Man oh man I just keep pinching myself how lucky I am to have these things.

Ian,

 

When you first mentioned that you were going to get a portable tube amp - a first class one, no less - I thought to myself how the PFs already sound as if they've got tubes built into them, even when driven with solid state gear.  My guess is that you're hearing a very, very "wet" and "full" sound - "luscious" might be a good adjective to describe what you must be hearing.  Euphony unleashed.  

 

Just to help me understand...  Would you say the new amp gives you more of what the PF already gave you - taking it further in the same direction - or does it venture into some new sonic traits that were missing from the PF?

 

I realize it's too early to reach conclusions, but I'm curious just the same!

 

Mike

Mike.

Great question and my comments are to be taken in context that the amp has some burn in to go. So far what I am finding is certainly tube sound but this is the remarkable thing there is much greater detail retrieval.

For instance. On Dave Brubeck's Time out album the drum solo on take five. I have heard before the reflection of the drums strikes on the studio wall but with this amp there is actually texture to that, depth as well that I have only heard before on a speaker set up. It is like it has taken the PF's, added to what I love about them, the musicality but at the same time added more details but not in an intrusive way, just more.

Likewise on Rhythm of the heat by Peter Gabriel. Each drum strike in the complex and detailed drum section has texture and depth and is definable and yet at the same time cohesive as a musical whole.

Paul Simons Hearts and Bones has just so much more acoustic ambience than with the blackbird.

It is not a heavy or slow sound but open and detailed but at the same time very very musical. It seems to take the PF's to a place in terms of detail and separation that did not exist as much before but, and this is a big but! they lose none of what I love about them which is musicality and texture.

I think these phones really rise to what they are being fed and from my experience tonight being fed a high quality tube amp just makes what I love about these shine even more and throws in more detail and texture but not in an analytical or unmusical way if that makes sense.

I always thought the PF's mature sounding earphones now with this amp they feel like ones worldly wise uncle who constantly surprises one with his exploits and knowledge. I am really looking forward to hearing what SF has to say after he listens to them through his liquid fire. I have a feeling much the same as I have said!

Ian, that is fantastic to hear. Hopefully I will get some time this weekend to get the tubes I want into the LF and give it a go. 

 

In the mean time, I've done some A/B/C listening with the FI-BA-SS, ES5, and Signature Pro. I've discovered something and I have a question. Is the opposite of coloration, transparency?

 

Before, the Signature Pro made my ES5 sound so colored and congested. The Signature Pro was much more realistic and natural sounding in the mid range listening to Keith Jarret Live at Koln. Now, the FI-BA-SS Shows the Sig Pro's coloration with a truer timbre, and more natural sound with less congestion and coloring. It's thinner sounding (less colored), but so much more clear and real sounding. And the Sig Pro is one transparent little guy! I could not believe it! The FI-BA-SS makes my ES5 sound like listening to piano underwater with your ear canals caked with mud. 

 

Don't get me wrong, with electronic, and some vocals, that coloration can be fun. But I am starting to crave the open, natural, transparent clearness of the FI-BA-SS above all. They are truly a marvel. 

 

One thing that is important to note it that when you move from the ES5 to the Sig Pro, you lose that euphony when you lose the coloration. But with the FI-BA-SS, the same isn't true. Despite it's incredible transparency, MUSIC is a joy! I'm not listening to the piano (Sig Pro), I am listening to the beauty of the music ebb and flow. 

You know, I don't know anything about the headphones you talk of so can't comment on their traits. However, as far as coloration and transparency are concerned for me no, they are not opposites. I have heard many 'coloured' amps that are also transparent, its just they have a sound signature as well.

I think there are different ways to achieve musical enjoyment, least from my experiences over the past few months that is what I am finding. For instances, as we know, the PF's are very coloured but at the same time, especially with a really good amp they are capable of incredible transparency into the acoustic I find. Likewise I find my ER4's transparent but in a different way, without as much coloration.Both I like though prefer the PF's delivery more.

No, I am going to through something out to you and see what you think. I have been feeling this for a while though the signature pro's are not applicable (I assume in sig pro your on about the Ultrasone's) however they have that odd Slogic that I feel does the same thing to some extent.

I am talking about smearing. Every Multi driver IEM I have heard does it and it is something I find I just do not like. Sure, there may be details but it feels each drive unit is fighting with the other and so there is a smearing effect. I have heard it on multi driver speakers where the crossovers have not been deigned well and I think due to the nature of the physical environment of IEM's it is even more prevalent no matter how well designed. That is why I prefer single driver IEM's, there is none of that smearing, least not in my experience.

Though having not heard the SS's I think what your getting and finding so appealing is that lack of smearing which then of course brings immediacy which can be a problem as well if the whole thing has not been designed well. That is where FAD come in as they still tune it for musicality, least I reckon that is the case.

I have heard the ED8'S and 10's there is something about that S logic that seems to smear the sound for me, it is really odd why they would do that!

Does that make any sense or am I nuts with my thoughts on this?

It completely makes sense. 

 

My thoughts are that even with a single note, that isn't being divided up by the crossover, is still muddy. Say a 3KHz Piano tone, just a single note, in theory should be activating the mid-range driver (yes, via the crossover, but without competing BA drivers being driven at the same time). Just a single note does not nearly have the transparency. Now I realize, the acoustics and ambience/reverb of the room, plus the hammer strike of the string are not that one single note, so maybe that is where I run into problems... Maybe a true test would be a synthesized electronic 3Khz tone with some texture in it to test transparency and coloration. 

 

So maybe the electronics in a multi-driver BA inherently make for a reduction in transparency, even when multiple sounds are not being divided up by the crossover. And/or, Final Audio has their materials, drivers, and tuning just right so that they really are manufacturing the best single BA's on earth. 

 

Does that make sense?

 

Does FAD manufacture their own BA's?

 

They're supposedly proprietary, yeah.

How many companies actually do that these days? It seems few and far in-between. 

 

Especially given the size of FAD. Recently Sony engineered their own, but they're so much bigger.

That was also on my mind. I don't know how big FAD is, but I got the impression they are pretty small. Nearly boutique, but also heard they are pretty popular and well-known around Japan. But that doesn't mean their products are prevalent.