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Final Audio Design Appreciation/Discussion Thread - Page 57

post #841 of 4114

I think I can say with confidence, the 1601 and 1602 are not for me.  I find the whole experience odd and retro lo-fi.  This FAD sound is inarticulate, echoey and sometimes harsh (especially at higher volumes).  Decay seems to last forever; a waterfall plot should prove interesting.

 

I find it intriguing just how much many of you love them and how they 'affect' you.  They bring to mind my love of many odd or cheesy or artsy movies.  Those movies invoke a particular emotion or hit a an appropriate time in my life and just 'stick with me'.  I certainly understand how others could find those movies silly, bad or just plain odd.  But to me those movies range the gamut from creative, to great, and to profound.  Perhaps there's a little of that involved in the retro lo-fi sound I'm hearing.

 

This FAD experience brings back memories of listening to the stock AM radio with my father in his green Ford Pinto.  It had both a green interior and exterior. My childhood retro lo-fi:

 

1000

 

 

One thing I did enjoy is the the completely open feeling of my ears.  While it didn't really help the soundstage of the FADs for me, it did provide a uniquely comfortable experience that just allowed my ears to 'breathe' but you definitely need to find a completely silent space to enjoy this openness. 

 

Finally- Regarding me just 'not getting it', as was mentioned earlier, that is probably as good an explanation as any.  The best way to describe my experience in contrast with the others here is this:

 

"They remind me of those posters/paintings from 10 or 15 years ago (autostereogram or magic eye), that just look like patterns of shapes and colors but if you stare long enough for your eyes and mind to disengage and lose focus, you'll be rewarded with seeing some kind of 3 dimensional object, scene or character not otherwise readily seen in the pattern and colors.

 

I only ever saw patterns of shapes and colors."

post #842 of 4114

Hi shotgunshane,

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

I think I can say with confidence, the 1601 and 1602 are not for me.  I find the whole experience odd and retro lo-fi.  This FAD sound is inarticulate, echoey and sometimes harsh (especially at higher volumes).  Decay seems to last forever; a waterfall plot should prove interesting.

 

[snip]

 

I had them at the beginning of the tour and can say that I understand what you're saying here, even though I actually liked the coloration and ambiance the PFs add to a signal, but not enough to warrant the expense of buying them, and certainly not for full-time use with my entire music collection.  

 

I suspect this thread's unusual number of references to favorite music is, at least in part, whether conscious or sub-conscious, an acknowledgement by PF owners that the PFs don't work well as general-purpose earphones.  I consider the PFs to be more like caviar than bread - far more luxurious than nutritious and definitely an acquired taste.  

 

For me, they worked their magic without objectionable side-effects, when listening to acoustic instruments and vocals, for the most part, but not so well with other instruments.  (See the many album referrals in this thread.)

 

The PFs aren't accurate in the least.  They are surrealistic - a painting instead of a photograph.  And in that sense, they make an irresistible emotional connection for some people.  I "get it,"  and would love to have a pair of PF VIIIs or XIs in my headphone collection - as something I could reach for on demand, but I would only be willing to pay about $300 for them.  Such is my affection for what they can do.

 

Mike

post #843 of 4114
Quote:
Originally Posted by zilch0md View Post

I suspect this thread's unusual number of references to favorite music is, at least in part, whether conscious or sub-conscious, an acknowledgement by PF owners that the PFs don't work well as general-purpose earphones.

 

You needn't look too deeply between the lines; I think most 1601/1602 owners have been very upfront about the earphone's limitations and unsuitability as a general purpose monitor. It's also why folks like James, myself, and others have been repeating ourselves ad nauseam---veritable broken records---in warning people to air on the side of caution. These definitely aren't going to be everyones' cup of tea.

 

As for the music recs, I think it's refreshing. Folks seem content with their earphones, and so instead of the usual upgraditis poetics and solicitations for advice there's actual sharing of music.

 

Spooky... : P

post #844 of 4114

The more I listen to my Heaven VI, the more I just absolutely love it. I will be sharing some notes on it soon. 

 

As far as the Piano Forte goes, I am having trouble coming up with what I think of it or how to describe it. I know that's the norm. I just keep listening to it, trying to discover the magic. Sometimes I do, but honestly, it's not enough of a departure from the magic of the Heaven VI. I could gush about the Heaven VI, and the more I listen, the more I fall in love with it. This hasn't happened yet with the PF. While it is quite fantastic on a few things, it's limitations bother me in other ways. Even with acoustic music, I hear the finger skin on the guitar string while being plucked with the HVI, but that detail and texture isn't there with the PF. And with the HVI mids being 95% of the magic of the PF, I'm having a hard time justifying it, and feel the HVI is actually a more emotional experience. I think the HVI images better, has more detail and texture as well. It really is that good. Might look to FI-BA-SS or TG334 as a replacement for PF. 

 

I need to spend more time with the PF. They are something special indeed and I am definitely hearing music in a new way. I thought it would be a slightly more detailed and forward presentation. Though some vocals on the PF are simply unrivaled by anything. 

 

More to come

post #845 of 4114
Thread Starter 

That is the reason why Final audio developing/having different lines of product
.
You get PF series for more specific taste, not everyone will like the sound of PF, it is the matter of you love it extremely, or it sounds horrible to you, same concept as a pair of horn speaker, they don't excel in treble and bass, heck they don't even sounded correctly in frequency chart, but they just produce a sense that you can never forget.

Adagio and Heaven series are more focus on the mass market, it is easier to accept by users and they varied from extreme bass, to mid centric, to awesome detail.   

post #846 of 4114
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringBiscuit View Post

That is the reason why Final audio developing/having different lines of product

.

You get PF series for more specific taste, not everyone will like the sound of PF, it is the matter of you love it extremely, or it sounds horrible to you, same concept as a pair of horn speaker, they don't excel in treble and bass, heck they don't even sounded correctly in frequency chart, but they just produce a sense that you can never forget.


Adagio and Heaven series are more focus on the mass market, it is easier to accept by users and they varied from extreme bass, to mid centric, to awesome detail.   

I could not have put it better myself! It is exactly as I feel and as MuppetFace said, always with the enthusiasm comes the caveat that they are esoteric and as such not for everyone
post #847 of 4114
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

 

1000

 

 

 

I quite like your nostalgia comparison. I tell friends that the PF IX is to accurate sound production what a Monet is to a color photograph. However it might be more accurate to say "what an old 1960's Kodacolor print is to a modern color photograph."

 

This kind of nostalgia is all the rage now with Instagram. The difference I think is that the Instagram pictures are severely deteriorated to get the desired effect. I do not regard the Piano Fortes that way. You say lo-fi, a reasonable view, but I think that it is still 'hi-fi', just way out there.  :-)

post #848 of 4114
Yeah, I don't want a picture painted that these are waaay out there. I actually feel they paint a more accurate and natural representation of instruments than the so called flat level, accurate IEM's and such. Hmm, how can I support that statement? Ah!

Think the portrayal of a performance with the accurate headphones as a bit perfect replication of an oil painting, colours are sharp, definition and detail pop, it looks like an extra real version of the real painting that to me is how something like my ER4S's and a number of multi driver IEM's sound. I once thought wow! What an accurate representation.. And that is indeed what it is.

Now. The piano fortes to my ears are like owning the real painting rather than the copy, I say that because no matter how detailed the representation, it is still, just a representation, it lacks to some degree the emotion of raised brush strokes that when you look at closely make the hair on the back of your neck stand as you feel you have had an insight into the painters soul and thoughts as he or she applied those brushstrokes, that I feel is where the magic of the PF's come in, they allow somehow a closer and more intimate connection to the emotions of the performer and performance.

The details are there still but you have to adopt a different approach to your listening to hear them. But they way they convey the artists and I go back to this time and time again as it is so often forgotten on headfi and low HiFi circles, is that music is an art form, not a science experiment out to eek the very last detail of perfection! Part of the appeal, connection to a human being is how they paint the imperfections into the performance as well after all..

Think listening Callas singing an aria as the PF's, its all there but not forced down your throat like Adele or Witney Huston knocking you into submission just with sheer power to cover up the complete lack of real skill or talent like the more accurat IEM's that on paper measure so well. Don't get me wrong, I still like my ER4S, I just don't love them as I do my PF's and I think there it is in a nutshell!
post #849 of 4114
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringBiscuit View Post

That is the reason why Final audio developing/having different lines of product
.
You get PF series for more specific taste, not everyone will like the sound of PF, it is the matter of you love it extremely, or it sounds horrible to you, same concept as a pair of horn speaker, they don't excel in treble and bass, heck they don't even sounded correctly in frequency chart, but they just produce a sense that you can never forget.

Adagio and Heaven series are more focus on the mass market, it is easier to accept by users and they varied from extreme bass, to mid centric, to awesome detail.   

 

This does not apply to me. It assuredly does not sound horrible to me, and I do quite like it with some things, and that range of things is growing. And I also had a breakthrough with them last night with a sudden realization that if I let these go, I might very much regret that. I think there is very much a brain burn-in involved here and also possibly some mechanical burn-in since it's a dynamic driver.

 

Like I said, I need more time with them. 

post #850 of 4114
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundFreaq View Post

This does not apply to me. It assuredly does not sound horrible to me, and I do quite like it with some things, and that range of things is growing. And I also had a breakthrough with them last night with a sudden realization that if I let these go, I might very much regret that. I think there is very much a brain burn-in involved here and also possibly some mechanical burn-in since it's a dynamic driver.

Like I said, I need more time with them. 

From what you have said in the past about how you like your music presented I feel for you it is worth seeing if you can adjust to them as I feel they would actually match what you want from music really well.

I am going to throw an album at you as what I feel is a good test of what I was on about in my previous post. It is Neil Young's Greendale album if you have it. Try to listen to a lossless or wav copy rather than compressed.. Or the CD or Vinyl if you have it.

I did this yesterday. I listened to various tracks with my ER4S's then the PF's and this is the interesting point, if looked at from a purely analytical standpoint it feels like the ER4's give a more detailed rendition.. However! With the ER4's the sound bites were enough, with the PF's I ended up starting from the beginning and listening right to the end of the album, feet tapping and completely absorbed into the story Neil weaves as the album progresses. As the album continued I became to understand that those micro details we all get addicted to with the accurate IEM's were all still there, the skin against string as it slides down the guitar, the breathy spittle in the harmonica but it was just not taking center stage, I had to listen more to pick it out but what happened was I ended up not bothered as the PF's skill at emotion was what was drawing me in to the performance and making me feel I was in an audience of one with Neil and the band!

Likewise the same occurred listening to Rene Fleming, through these one can truly see what a passionate and learned performer she is, through the ER4's it feels more like talent night on Xfactor as they just do not convey her soul as she performs as convincingly I feel. Hope that helps.
post #851 of 4114
Thanks Ian for that. Can't wait to get home and give the album a listen. I am refraining from listening to any other earphones during this time to try and really focus on the PF with no mental distractions of other sonic signatures.
post #852 of 4114
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundFreaq View Post

Thanks Ian for that. Can't wait to get home and give the album a listen. I am refraining from listening to any other earphones during this time to try and really focus on the PF with no mental distractions of other sonic signatures.

I am really looking forward to your thoughts as either way, wether they validate what I say or contradict it helps others come to a balanced decision about these. One thing especially is that I have come to appreciate much more the best musical instrument of all.. The human voice as I find the PF's really dig into the expression and emotion.
post #853 of 4114

Oh my god, everything has changed! I get it! I could tell I was on the brink of discovery, and it hit me full force! I am all smiles! Ian, the Neil Young is what did it. I get it. I am going from describing it as full and rich to" I can feel the Texas heat, and smell the sunscreen while he sings at the local folk festival. With Miles Davis, I can smell the old wood of the bass. I can't go through my collection fast enough. These things are magic! While I am refraining from listening to other headphones, I switched back to the Heaven VI with Neil Young and they sounded horrible in comparison. Ok, I am going back now. 

post #854 of 4114
Oh by the way, the acoustic version of Greendale is where it's at!
post #855 of 4114
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundFreaq View Post

Oh my god, everything has changed! I get it! I could tell I was on the brink of discovery, and it hit me full force! I am all smiles! Ian, the Neil Young is what did it. I get it. I am going from describing it as full and rich to" I can feel the Texas heat, and smell the sunscreen while he sings at the local folk festival. With Miles Davis, I can smell the old wood of the bass. I can't go through my collection fast enough. These things are magic! While I am refraining from listening to other headphones, I switched back to the Heaven VI with Neil Young and they sounded horrible in comparison. Ok, I am going back now. 

Oh Yay.. I am not nuts then! biggrin.gif I am so happy for you! another one for you is Townes Van Zandt, being from Texas I am guessing you have some of his stuff? In particular from the legend album Marie sung with Wille Nelso, near the end of Townes life, his voice is old and tired but oh so atmospheric.

I found this copy of it on youtube though not sure of the quality
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