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post #46 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddragon View Post

 

 

 

well, "wow" factor is not impossible to achieve, i achieved that when i first got my ultimate ears trifi10. it still sounds good to me but its sitting in the drawer now because of comfort issues but i have no problem with it in the sound department.

 

I don't think you quite understood what I meant by that, as it's not even something you achieve for the most part.  It's mainly something you get straight off the bat and something that is often not good because what it usually is is gimmicks to hook you in with certain boosts in EQ and such. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

 

You may find this article about break-in very interesting - it's extremely well presented and researched.  It's also based on measurements.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/evidence-headphone-break

 

If you get time to read the whole thing, it's quite enlightening.  Tyll did a batch of tests that basically came up inconclusive.  There may be a small physical change going on - but you'd get more sonic change from the condition of pads, or the slight movement of the cans on your head.  And these are a member of the AKG family that some claim need major burn-in.

 

FWIW I did notice change over time with my DT880s.  But I also know that it's most likely just my brain slowly getting used to them.  Same with my 325is.  When I first got them, they seemed really bright.  They still do in the first 3-4 minutes putting them on.  But after 5 minutes or so my brain adjusts and the brightness fades to a nice comfort level.

 

My advice is to forget about break-in.  Break your cans in naturally - by listening to them.  If they change over time, I'd say it's more likely to be your own wonderful internal processor burning in - rather than the physical transducer your wearing.

 

Hmm...  Interesting.  I will definitely look into it.  As a matter of fact, I was just looking for this kind of info and before I really got into it, you've provided me with at the very least a good start.  Thanks. 

 

In regards to the pads and the movement of the cans on my head, believe me I've experienced that.  It makes quite significant differences often and I try to calculate that as much as I can when trying to do an objective test. 

 

Like I mentioned earlier, your internal processor burning in is a different factor.  It's very easy to test simply by having a large array of the same headphones (which I've had) and comparing them new and "burned in".  I didn't very accurately test it because it was driving me nuts (tbh) and it was before I knew about the potential differences in the pads making changes.  After experimenting and learning that, I was too crazy at that point so it's safe to say the test was inconclusive.  That's annoying, lol...  I'll likely be trying it again some time.  One PROBLEM I did notice is that over time, the volume of the HM5's seems to be diminishing...  That sounds bad to me.  It seems like I slowly need to push the volume a bit further for similar things as time goes on.  I wish I had one of those testing heads. 

 

And BTW, would you say the same thing about speakers as you do headphones?  In theory its very similar so I would guess so.  Burn-in is just too logical and in cases too apparent for it to be a myth as it seems likely that you see it.  For instance, this video isn't exclusively on that but it's mentioned; take a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHWP6Bq8rHw&list=FLTNobbLgf2qT-eYV3TF7xmQ&index=47&feature=plpp_video

 

I know, that's very different, but that's just the video I recently viewed which I remembered hearing it in such a direct way.  I'm sure the same principle applies for any other things alike.  Another thing that might give me a bit of a perspective on your personal opinion: do you believe in LCD screens burning in/changing over time?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

Oops - sorry - just realised I posted the first trials Tyll did - in 2011.

 

Here's the later article I was supposed to post ........ http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/measurement-and-audibility-headphone-break    from Jan 2012.

 

Anyway - both of them are a good read.

 

Thanks! :)


Edited by Typhoon859 - 6/12/12 at 10:20pm
post #47 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

 

You may find this article about break-in very interesting - it's extremely well presented and researched.  It's also based on measurements.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/evidence-headphone-break

 

If you get time to read the whole thing, it's quite enlightening.  Tyll did a batch of tests that basically came up inconclusive.  There may be a small physical change going on - but you'd get more sonic change from the condition of pads, or the slight movement of the cans on your head.  And these are a member of the AKG family that some claim need major burn-in.

 

FWIW I did notice change over time with my DT880s.  But I also know that it's most likely just my brain slowly getting used to them.  Same with my 325is.  When I first got them, they seemed really bright.  They still do in the first 3-4 minutes putting them on.  But after 5 minutes or so my brain adjusts and the brightness fades to a nice comfort level.

 

My advice is to forget about break-in.  Break your cans in naturally - by listening to them.  If they change over time, I'd say it's more likely to be your own wonderful internal processor burning in - rather than the physical transducer your wearing.


I could be wrong... but even if burn-in is psychological, could it be detrimental to the headphones? I'm thinking of doing it for the hell of it, psychological or not people have said that it does make cans sound better.

post #48 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschi223 View Post


I could be wrong... but even if burn-in is psychological, could it be detrimental to the headphones? I'm thinking of doing it for the hell of it, psychological or not people have said that it does make cans sound better.

 

 

 

burning in is a natural process wheny you listen to your headphone for enough time anyway and no it cannot be detrimental to your headphones unless you blast your music so loud that you blow your drivers out

post #49 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddragon View Post



burning in is a natural process wheny you listen to your headphone for enough time anyway and no it cannot be detrimental to your headphones unless you blast your music so loud that you blow your drivers out

+1

But also, if burn-in is considered as a factor (as it wouldn't hurt to be anyway), then it should be kept in mind that there are better and worse ways, especially in that initial period, even though the process would in fact be a natural one at that. Regardless, you don't want to be sitting there in the future thinking, "what if I did it another way and my headphones could've been better off now because of it." As a matter of fact, you'll just end up feeling like you worsened their potential. Maybe that's just me though and I'm retarded, lol.
post #50 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhoon859 View Post


+1
But also, if burn-in is considered as a factor (as it wouldn't hurt to be anyway), then it should be kept in mind that there are better and worse ways, especially in that initial period, even though the process would in fact be a natural one at that. Regardless, you don't want to be sitting there in the future thinking, "what if I did it another way and my headphones could've been better off now because of it." As a matter of fact, you'll just end up feeling like you worsened their potential. Maybe that's just me though and I'm retarded, lol.

 

 

 

 

??????? i thought its just burned in or not if you believe in burning in, theres better or worse ways? never heard of it. for people who dont believe burning in is the headphone sounds like this, no change at all.

post #51 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschi223 View Post


I could be wrong... but even if burn-in is psychological, could it be detrimental to the headphones? I'm thinking of doing it for the hell of it, psychological or not people have said that it does make cans sound better.

 

As reddragon mentioned, as long as you don't blast the drivers too loud, your headphones would be fine.  Read the articles I linked from InnerFidelity though (especially the second one).  I've yet to see any real evidence of burn-in myself (except for psycho-acoustic).

 

The only thing I really object to is the (IMO) BS about some cans needing 100s of hours burn-in (this usually co-incides with comments about night and day changes - and strangely they all seem to be improvements ..... go figure).  Problem is that newcomers read this, and then spout the same rubbish to the next batch of newcomers.  In the end it becomes urban-legend.  It's one of the reasons you'll see some people talking about audio-phoolery.

 

I can't discount that burn-in exists - but the actual data on it (headphones) points more toward any effects being extremely subtle.  Like I said earlier - forget about burn-in.  Let yourself get used to the new cans.  If you don't like them after a week - you've brought the worng ones, or they may not suit your set-up.  Chalk it up to experience, sell them, and try something else.  That's what I did - and I love my current modest set-up.

post #52 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

 

As reddragon mentioned, as long as you don't blast the drivers too loud, your headphones would be fine.  Read the articles I linked from InnerFidelity though (especially the second one).  I've yet to see any real evidence of burn-in myself (except for psycho-acoustic).

 

The only thing I really object to is the (IMO) BS about some cans needing 100s of hours burn-in (this usually co-incides with comments about night and day changes - and strangely they all seem to be improvements ..... go figure).  Problem is that newcomers read this, and then spout the same rubbish to the next batch of newcomers.  In the end it becomes urban-legend.  It's one of the reasons you'll see some people talking about audio-phoolery.

 

I can't discount that burn-in exists - but the actual data on it (headphones) points more toward any effects being extremely subtle.  Like I said earlier - forget about burn-in.  Let yourself get used to the new cans.  If you don't like them after a week - you've brought the worng ones, or they may not suit your set-up.  Chalk it up to experience, sell them, and try something else.  That's what I did - and I love my current modest set-up.

 

 

 

didnt like my ety hf5 at first listen but liked them after a while though i dont think it takes an entire week for me to change my opinion about them, also the deeper insertion was a factor. i would agree with you that if you dont like a headphone for a week, you probably wont like them ever.

post #53 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschi223 View Post

I was looking into the Koss Pro4AAAT or the Grado SR125i along with an Asus Xonar Essence STX. Any help would me much appreciated, as this is my first purchase of a non-integrated sound device. Thank you!

 

   I love the sound of the Grado SR125i ...even better than the SR225i - has always been one of my favorite Grados

post #54 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddragon View Post




??????? i thought its just burned in or not if you believe in burning in, theres better or worse ways? never heard of it. for people who dont believe burning in is the headphone sounds like this, no change at all.

Wherever burn-in is concerned, that's what is discussed. I mentioned this earlier with more specifics, like, using music vs. white noise vs. pink noise vs. sweep tones. In any case, what I know is that it's probably better to use the headphones connected to the amp for the first 50 hours or so vs. using it paired with e.g. a MacBook Pro because it may permanently scew the sound to an upwards curve, or rather, more of a line upwards. In other words, AGAIN, IF burn-in were as much a prominent factor as is claimed to be, what I'm saying is that the Treble would be disproportional with the Bass. It should be run through the highest quality source you will likely be listening through with EQ/boosting also the way you would listen. That's actually my main concern where burn-in comes into question.

To be honest, the HM5 headphones appear to me to have gotten worse over time relative to the new ones I recently opened when comparing, but as I said earlier, too many factors were getting in the way - ones which I didn't think would be that ridiculous in altering the sound. The feeling was just unsettling and I didn't bother trying it again because it was taking all the enjoyment out of the headphones for me. I still believe in burn-in. It makes too much sense and I've definitely seen it with other things. I have yet to have the proper experience with it when it comes to audio though, just because I've only recently acquired a source I feel worthy enough to merit conclusive results, that being the HM5's. As I said, I can't really say what's up as far as they go though.
Edited by Typhoon859 - 6/13/12 at 12:39am
post #55 of 69

I really suggest you read Tyll's second article - it answered a lot of my questions.  And it does it with real facts and real tests rather than the mumbo-jumbo that is continually suggested as 'truth'.

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/measurement-and-audibility-headphone-break

post #56 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

I really suggest you read Tyll's second article - it answered a lot of my questions.  And it does it with real facts and real tests rather than the mumbo-jumbo that is continually suggested as 'truth'.

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/measurement-and-audibility-headphone-break

Yeah, I knew you were gunna suggest it again.  Lol, sorry, I would've read it by now.  Like I said, I'm actually interested.  I have my last Final exam of the semester today so after that, all is good, lol.  I tried to be minimally distracted these past days.  Thanks again though.

post #57 of 69
FiiO E17 AMP + BRAINWAVZ HM5 COMBO FOR $230 RIGHT NOW ON MP4NATION!: http://www.mp4nation.net/fiio-e17-alpen-dac-headphone-amplifier-brainwavz-hm5-monitor-headphones

I'm going crazy right now! I need to get this for everyone I know! If only my acquaintances were more like you. They don't understand what it's for and how awesome this really is. Omg omg omg, lol. This is an awesome deal!
Edited by Typhoon859 - 6/14/12 at 7:02am
post #58 of 69
Thread Starter 

My Alessandro Ms-1i's came today. I've been listening to them nonstop, I LOVE their sound. SO great for the music I listen to. Apparently they are very easily driven, so they're being driven straight out of my laptop/desktop/iPhone. They sound so great!!! Thank you all so much! For a mid-range purchase I'm looking at some Senn HD 600s along with the E17, but that will come later. Maybe in a couple years, or a couple months, I'm not sure. I leaned towards the MS-1i because they are very inexpensive and highly moddable, which I love doing. I'm very happy with my purchase. Highly recommended! Thanks all!

post #59 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschi223 View Post

My Alessandro Ms-1i's came today. I've been listening to them nonstop, I LOVE their sound. SO great for the music I listen to. Apparently they are very easily driven, so they're being driven straight out of my laptop/desktop/iPhone. They sound so great!!! Thank you all so much! For a mid-range purchase I'm looking at some Senn HD 600s along with the E17, but that will come later. Maybe in a couple years, or a couple months, I'm not sure. I leaned towards the MS-1i because they are very inexpensive and highly moddable, which I love doing. I'm very happy with my purchase. Highly recommended! Thanks all!


Somebody should respond to me and say, "BUUURNED!"  Lol. 

 

Very glad you found something you like.  Don't be surprised though if you quickly get used to them and want to move on to the next step.  It happens to everyone, so don't worry, if it does, it doesn't mean you made the wrong choice >.<  The best headphones (or anything for that matter) are actually ones that you start liking more/understand more over time rather than from the moment you put them on.  I'm not sure if I need to explain the principle behind that, lol.  The E17 btw is also back in stock separately and its with 1-2 day (according to them) FedEx shipping in the US.  You can get them with free IEM headphones with/without microphone.  Or you have a choice to pay $10 extra for a bundle with a headphone stand which normally cost $20.  From what I've seen, unless bundled, I've almost never seen deals on DAC/Amps, at the very least from FiiO, so this is probably as good as it will get. 

 

If you don't mind me asking a few questions though, how long would you say you could wear the headphones before they get any bit uncomfortable?  Also, what was your purchase price? XD

 

 

FYI- Most of the headphones mentioned (aside from maybe the Sennheisers) are "easily" driven.  As in, straight from the mentioned devices, they would likely play loud enough.  It's not just about that.  The HM5's for instance are very easily driven but with the amp, their full frequency range gets balanced out and tonality improves quite significantly.  I'm not sure how much an amp would do for your pair of headphones specifically though, but looking around, people mention improvements.  Although ironically, those very same people on occasion seem not to like the headphones. 

 

I'm not sure if I mentioned but what the FiiO E17 amp would also do is give you a uniformity of sound amongst all your devices and any others for that matter no matter where you go.  Before the amp for example, it always sucked when I went over to someone's house with the headphones and they sounded much more crappy connected to their desktop than it did from the beginning connected to my receiver.  The primary difference was that they were much thinner and smaller sounding and didn't really deliver those dynamics, especially in the lower ranges, that I was hoping to show off (referring to songs I wanted to show).  So yeah, I'm hoping to give you as much information as possible so that you know its purposes and usefulness, you know, aside from the generic, "it make sound better, uh-huh!"

 

In any case, enjoy!  Hopefully the bit of bickering here didn't throw you off and we actually helped you out! :)


Edited by Typhoon859 - 6/14/12 at 7:11pm
post #60 of 69
Thread Starter 

Some people like the Grado fit, some don't. I don't mind it, but it's not the most comfortable headphones I've worn. When I first put them on, I wasn't blown away, but genuinely impressed at how much better they sound than the apple earbuds (duh). The longer I listen to them, the more impressed I am with them. If I think they begin to get stale, I'll just mod the crap out of them. I'm really satisfied! I might purchase the amp for futureproofing at some point. I really did get helped out! Thanks everyone!

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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › My ears have grown out of onboard sound and Apple earbuds. I'm looking for the optimal price/performance option for headphones and a DAC/sound card/headphone amp for under $300.