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TURNTABLE SETUP Questions thread - don't start a new thread, ASK YOUR QUESTION HERE! - Page 47

post #691 of 2542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogmonster View Post

Yeah, I've been reading through this thread a good bit. There's alot of information here that's a bit over my head right now. But I'm alyays open to new ideas. The test record looks like a good solid start. I'm extremely careful with my records and I keep them as clean as possible. I usually just use a Pro-Ject microfibre brush to clean them when necessary. I'm not too fond of the cleaning solutions (probably another over reaction). I've also been told by a few people I know that there is so much stuff that can be done with a TT and vinyl in general that it can be very easy to go overkill. The amount of amps, turn tables, speakers etc. seems endless. I'm absolutely delighted with my system now and I don't see the need to add on anything.........yet.

.....and then he got his test LP and lived happily ever after...

 

Seriously, getting that test record is not only good start, it can be also end. If you have the possibility to vacuum clean it prior to first use - do so. You migh bring also few of your well cared for records. Than listen for the results ....>>YETwink_face.gif.

post #692 of 2542

Would someone please link me to a good test LP. Not sure 100% what I'm looking for. I want to get a strobe record/mat to test the rotation of my turntable because i bought it at a thrift shop and it would give me piece of mind. Everything I've played so far seems fine. What would the test track do for me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

.....and then he got his test LP and lived happily ever after...

 

Seriously, getting that test record is not only good start, it can be also end. If you have the possibility to vacuum clean it prior to first use - do so. You migh bring also few of your well cared for records. Than listen for the results ....>>YETwink_face.gif.

post #693 of 2542
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenman345 View Post

Would someone please link me to a good test LP. Not sure 100% what I'm looking for. I want to get a strobe record/mat to test the rotation of my turntable because i bought it at a thrift shop and it would give me piece of mind. Everything I've played so far seems fine. What would the test track do for me?

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Phonograph-Turntable-Record-Player-Anti-Static-Slip-Mat-w-Strobe-Pattern-Center-/390424638174?pt=US_Record_Player_Turntable_Parts&hash=item5ae71f32de&_uhb=1#ht_1170wt_1186

 

About the cheapest way to get a strobe - but you might wish a version that is placed on top of the record label so that you can see the speed while playing http://www.ebay.de/itm/HIFI-TURNTABLE-STROBE-DISC-/181029289400?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Turntables&hash=item2a262fbdb8&_uhb=1#ht_1679wt_1186

 
The simplest possible explanation of the vinyl test record: you have probably seen a TV test picture, which should be round circle, not oval in any direction, should have sharp colours, good contrast - etc. You may be quite satisfied with your TV set, everything would seem fine - until someone showed you the test picture, revealing whatever defects. Same with turntables - after it has been correctly aligned and adjusted, you can really start appreciate the quality of the reproduction - particularly of better quality recordings that demand replay quality to be as high as possible.
 
Test track would not do a single thing for you unless you learn to use it - and after you do, you will be glad that you did. Because properly adjusted turntable will simply invite you to listen more.
post #694 of 2542

@Bogmonster; I used the Shure gauge to set up my Rega, and I would highly recommend it. It's nearly impossible to get the correct tracking force visually, and you definitely don't want it to be tracking too light, as that will do more damage to your records than tracking too heavily. The Shure gauge is $25 shipped on Amazon, much cheaper than the electronic versions from Clearaudio, etc, and just as accurate..

post #695 of 2542
Quote:
Originally Posted by calipilot227 View Post

@Bogmonster; I used the Shure gauge to set up my Rega, and I would highly recommend it. It's nearly impossible to get the correct tracking force visually, and you definitely don't want it to be tracking too light, as that will do more damage to your records than tracking too heavily. The Shure gauge is $25 shipped on Amazon, much cheaper than the electronic versions from Clearaudio, etc, and just as accurate..

 

I'm living in Ireland and the Shure guage works out to be close to 50 euro (give or take) on Amazon UK. It's pricey enough but I will definitely purchase one if I feel it necessary. I ordered the test LP recommended by analogsurvivor so I will see how that goes first. Hopefully my TT is somewhere close to where it should be. Last thing I want to do is go messing around with it and damage it frown.gif

post #696 of 2542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogmonster View Post

 

I'm living in Ireland and the Shure guage works out to be close to 50 euro (give or take) on Amazon UK. It's pricey enough but I will definitely purchase one if I feel it necessary. I ordered the test LP recommended by analogsurvivor so I will see how that goes first. Hopefully my TT is somewhere close to where it should be. Last thing I want to do is go messing around with it and damage it frown.gif

It is (un)fortunate we are here on the global basis. Availability and pricing can vary wildly - what is in some place as common as muck, might be someplace else gold - and priced accordingly. Since you convienently live in Ireland, if scales really prove unavoidable, you can try to get one of the best : Transcriptors Stylus Scales, which was made in Carlow, Ireland. http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=10605.0

It is a superb piece of mechanical engineering, accurately measures down to 0.01 gram. Michell also had a variation on the theme, as did Supex and the same thing rebranded for Nakamichi.

These are Rolls Royce/Mercedes/BMV/Ferrari/Lamborghini/etc of stylus scales. One advantage they have over their current electronic counterparts is the fact that they are the thinnest thing mechanically possible - they are about exact thichness/height of a LP when still floating just above the surface of the record mat/platter, giving you a very precise reading exactly where needed - in some tonearm designs, the difference in "height" of the measurements of 0.1-0.2  mm means "day and night" difference for VTF setting. Conceived originally for the Transcriptors Vestigal arm, with which other scales just do not cut it. Additional advantage is that unipivot bearing of this scales has far lower friction than any tonearm which involves wiring (including air bearing arms ) in order to get the signals to the outside world - with the tonearm/stylus scales  in balance, it should take the merest breath to displace the combo in either direction - if the arm bearing friction is low enough. Electronic stylus scales do not allow for this friction check.

 

I sincerely doubt you will need scales for Rega - its dialing system is more than enough good and compliance of Rega carts means they track at high enough VTF not to require so precise scales. But calipilot's remark it is better to track with too high VTF as opposed to too low is a correct one - the purpose of test record is to find minimum VTF which still allows for correct tracking without mistracking. Please note that the most difficult bands on the HFN test LP can be tracked with only a handful of equipment and if you menage to get clean results for the bands for tracking across the entire arc on the surface, you are well within the safe zone for record wear/preservation. It has always been possible to record more on the disc than it can be reproduced, but 99% of the actual music records should be playable without undue wear if you achieve clean tracking across the entire arc/surface of HFN.

 

@EVERYBODY : Please try to restrain yourself with getting the Transcriptors Stylus Scales or its counterparts - if you do not REALLY need it. They are rare, were costly back in the day (1/3 to 1/2 price of the SME 3009 Series 2 tonearm ! ) and are out of production for decades. Leave it to those who really need such a precise instrument, even if you have money to burn; measurements of stylus compliance involve tracking at below 0.1 g ( below 1 mN ) and basic accuracy of 0.01g means 10 % built in error of the measurement at 0.1 gram and worse still at lower VTF required to get the reading for very high compliance cartridges, using appropriate test records.

 

It was the first piece/component of audio gear I said to myself : This is something I will die with.

 

At an age of 17 or 18. 35 years on - still going strong. It proved to be indispensable on the day one and maintaining its accuracy ever since. 

post #697 of 2542
Be careful with it.
post #698 of 2542
Quote:
Originally Posted by solserenade View Post

Be careful with it.

I am. Although it barely gets ever protected by its nice box and usually sits somewhere in corner next to TTs, aside from dusting with a regular record carbon fibre brush, it is fine without any maintenance. It does survive fall from table height to carpeted floor unscaved. Happened a couple of times in 35 years of use, despite all babying otherwise. Althoug it will never play a single note, the most useful piece of audio gear I can think of. Of 4 arms I use/cherish most, none has any VTF dial even in stock, let alone modified version - and Transcriptors Stylus Scales help them  to sing better than anything else. I have recently worked with friend's Michell Stylus Scales and they are equivalent - Michell weight system might be seen as an improvement, but it is really the scales themselves that always steal the show.

post #699 of 2542
Any good tips on how to adjust the VTA? Since you mentioned that in some tonearms, 0.1-0.2 mm means night and day to the VTF setting.
post #700 of 2542

@ analogsurvivor, that all sounds very over the top for my setup. But still sounds very precise all the same. I'm still learning alot from this site about audio equipment so alot of stuff is very new to me. The input is greatly appreciated.

 

Just another question though, once I have my TT adjusted using the test LP, am I good to go listening to my records or will I still need the force guage? As I said, I have no problem getting one but if it's not necessary after using the test LP I would rather spend that money on new records L3000.gif

post #701 of 2542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogmonster View Post

@ analogsurvivor, that all sounds very over the top for my setup. But still sounds very precise all the same. I'm still learning alot from this site about audio equipment so alot of stuff is very new to me. The input is greatly appreciated.

 

Just another question though, once I have my TT adjusted using the test LP, am I good to go listening to my records or will I still need the force guage? As I said, I have no problem getting one but if it's not necessary after using the test LP I would rather spend that money on new records L3000.gif

Well, it is perfectly possible to adjust a TT without using stylus force gauge using just test record. Just did one - and out of sheer curiosity will now measure what it turned out in the end. If your Rega does after adjustment with test LP not show tracking force appreciably outside/above recommended range for the VTF by the cart manufacturer, you do not need a gauge to tell you whether it is 2 g (as indicated by dial on the arm ) or 2.04 as measured with exact gauge. If you measure some gross discrepancy - like 3 g instead of say 2 at which cart should be able to track, that is another story.

 

Stylus gauge is a tool. For any tool decisive factor whether to buy it or "something else" is how much you will need it - if you change the stylus/cartridge only if and when it is worn/demaged and replace it with the new of the same type, you probably do not need it - if dial system on your arm is good enough. If your arm does not have any dialing system for VTF, obviously you need it before you can do anything else.

 

How many times did you have a flat tyre with your car - yet you always carry tools needed to replace it?

 

Then again - you should always consider the size and value of your vinyl library. If you have few (bad) records, it would be a waste to invest anything. If you have inherited a sizeable record collection and money for equipment to play it is tight - reconsider many times over before you start demaging precious irreplaceable records. Price of stylus force gauge relative to couple of bad LPs is significant - and sinks under the radar with good collection. Only you can decide what to do in your case.

post #702 of 2542
Quote:
Originally Posted by penmarker View Post

Any good tips on how to adjust the VTA? Since you mentioned that in some tonearms, 0.1-0.2 mm means night and day to the VTF setting.

Yes and no. First you have to get other basics like lateral geometry, VTF and antiskating force right - you will need a test record to do that. VTA does change with VTF, does change after burn in of the cartridge - and for this reasons you can not make final VTA adjustment right after mounting the cart.

First you must meet other conditions to be right in order to be able to listen for VTA.

 

Question is - WHICH record to use. I can say - but it is sooooo looooong out of print and now does cost an arm and a leg if it pops up for sale, that the point is moot. You should strive for some kind of "average" VTA - if you insist on perfection, it needs to be adjusted for EVERY LP . Which is impractical to say the least. 

 

Get the basics first (geometry, test record ) - it will be much easier to explain what to do with VTA  after you have mastered basics.


Edited by analogsurviver - 2/5/13 at 8:41am
post #703 of 2542

@ analogsurvivor. I see where you're coming from. I'll shop around and see if the Shure guage is cheaper somewhere else. I love my records and I want to keep them in top condition so I suppose it is a good investment as well. All this info is making me nervous about listening to them now.

post #704 of 2542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogmonster View Post

@ analogsurvivor. I see where you're coming from. I'll shop around and see if the Shure guage is cheaper somewhere else. I love my records and I want to keep them in top condition so I suppose it is a good investment as well. All this info is making me nervous about listening to them now.

It was not meant to make you or anyone else nervous - just conscious of the facts. If I knew what I know now and had the same or at least comparable equipment back then, many of my favourite oft played albums would have been in better shape. C'est la vie.

 

This sunday, after a hiatus for more than a year, I went to our local vinyl maniacs "brunch/coffee" -  and although most are quite much more well to do than myself, their jaws dropped after I told them what I have paid for the last good new sealed test  LPs now roughly 20 years ago ( 3 figures, first not 1,  per ONE LP ). Today unobtainium, even for the likes of Bill Gates.

 

NEVER regretted a dime. I did "shop around" - till it was one beyond last call for acohol and considered myself lucky to be able to procure the thing at all. No such danger with force gauges - they are in plentiful supply.

 

http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/shuresfg2_e.html

 

http://www.amazon.de/Shure-SFG-2-Tonarmwaage/dp/B00006I5SD

post #705 of 2542

@ analogsurvivor, thank's for the link.....unfortunately they don't ship to Ireland angry_face.gif I've shopped around and they're pretty much the same price. I decided to go with one. Piece of mind (and good records) are worth it. I may be back with questions. Looks straightforward though. Thanks for all your help and advice.

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