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post #571 of 2699
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent One View Post

 

The previous owner didn't have a problem with it (the cart). It's seldom used, as he moved up to a Benz-micro shortly thereafter. Naturally, I'll post my new found experience. Currently, proud of my 1977 Sony PS-X5 w/AT120E cart.

Hmmm... - I fear you will learn the hard way why he did it. Is it perhaps http://www.head-fi.org/t/388383/fs-music-hall-mmf-7-1-turntable-w-cart ?

MMF 7 by itself should be good, no experience.

 

120E could use some frosting and a cherry on the top, but everything below that missing top is very sound and healthly "cake" indeed. One could say you can get frosting for it by getting ATN440MLa stylus, frosting+cherry with ATN150MLX stylus and frosting+cherry+++++ by getting ATN150ANV stylus.Those ++++ are not necessary, but I would suggest 150MLX over 440MLa, as it is not too much of a price difference. No experience with Sony table, but I guess you being proud of it will remain justified for considerable time to come - it looks like honest deck on vinylengine. If you pimp it with an approprate mat, upgrade the stylus and adjust everything right with a good protractor and test record, perhaps add some vibration control in form of various feet or isolation platforms, it should take quite a lot of $$$ to significantly improve upon its performance.

 

Music Hall mmf-7 FS: Same table, different owner. The AT120E came installed on this PS-X5. Of course, I have heard better. However, @ $125 I'm getting some bang for my buck. I placed it on top of some 3"x3" - 6 lb brass footers, which in turn sat atop some 4" Maple platforms and performance went up to the next level - top, middle and bottom. Currently trying the Music Hall cork mat.


Edited by Silent One - 1/24/13 at 12:29pm
post #572 of 2699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent One View Post

 

Music Hall mmf-7 FS: Same table, different owner. The AT120E came installed on this PS-X5. Of course, I have heard better. However, @ $125 I'm getting some bang for my buck. I placed it on top of some 3"x3" - 6 lb brass footers, which in turn sat atop some 4" Maple platforms and performance went up to the next level - top, middle and bottom. Currently trying the Music Hall cork mat.

 

Do you think different types of wood have varying resonances? Genuine question

post #573 of 2699

Yes, I do. I'm always playful in the lab trying different settings, materials, surfaces and the pursuit of "What if...?" Maybe like a cook in the kitchen "Let's try this tonight!"


Edited by Silent One - 1/24/13 at 12:54pm
post #574 of 2699
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcs414 View Post

Hey turntable newbie thread-  could I get some more feedback you think?  Of course I noticed Travis responded, but he's a friend and I'd expect nothing less.  Sorry Morbid, you're friend-zoned.   But how about some Skylab weigh-ins on my TT, with hopefully some bits of wisdom -- or maybe the same from any of you other fine and wise vinyl gurus who frequent this (or any of the other) turntable threads?  I know this TT can't be that freaking rare, right?  Where's the love?  wink.gif  Instead, I get a chorus of crickets chirping.

 

 

Sorry man - can't really comment on a TT I know nothing about!

post #575 of 2699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent One View Post

 

Music Hall mmf-7 FS: Same table, different owner. The AT120E came installed on this PS-X5. Of course, I have heard better. However, @ $125 I'm getting some bang for my buck. I placed it on top of some 3"x3" - 6 lb brass footers, which in turn sat atop some 4" Maple platforms and performance went up to the next level - top, middle and bottom. Currently trying the Music Hall cork mat.

 

Serious question:

How does it makes the performance go up a level or two?

Can you describe?

 

One thing a really good turntable system does is make vinyl sound quieter.

In a well manufactured record using high quality vinyl, the record itself is inherently quiet.

But a noisy turntable can sound like noisy vinyl.

post #576 of 2699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent One View Post

 

Music Hall mmf-7 FS: Same table, different owner. The AT120E came installed on this PS-X5. Of course, I have heard better. However, @ $125 I'm getting some bang for my buck. I placed it on top of some 3"x3" - 6 lb brass footers, which in turn sat atop some 4" Maple platforms and performance went up to the next level - top, middle and bottom. Currently trying the Music Hall cork mat.

 

Serious question:

How does it makes the performance go up a level or two?

Can you describe?

 

One thing a really good turntable system does is make vinyl sound quieter.

In a well manufactured record using high quality vinyl, the record itself is inherently quiet.

But a noisy turntable can sound like noisy vinyl.

 

In simple terms, because the differences are that noticeable - more dynamic with better bass, wider mids and sweeter highs. As opposed to just setting it on the rack...in stocking feet,tongue_smile.gif naked.


Edited by Silent One - 1/24/13 at 2:31pm
post #577 of 2699
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACKENEDPLAGUE View Post

 

Do you think different types of wood have varying resonances? Genuine question

Yes. Good TTs are all about material(combinations) - once the basics like bearings etc are right. a really good design would try to combine materials with different enoug resonant frequencies that the whole remains as resonance free as possible - and only then resort to damping . it is here that modern tables are better than vintage - where there was metal, metal and more metal, ringing forever like a bell. Just strike the bare platter of Sl 1200 and you will hear what I mean - and compare that bell to modern Project or Rega or, Heavens forbid, even Funk Firm TT ...

post #578 of 2699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent One View Post

In simple terms, because the differences are that noticeable - more dynamic with better bass, wider mids and sweeter highs. As opposed to just setting it on the rack...in stocking feet,tongue_smile.gif
 
naked.

Thanks,
do you hear more ambience, space, reverberation, more room sound?
post #579 of 2699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

 

Serious question:

How does it makes the performance go up a level or two?

Can you describe?

 

One thing a really good turntable system does is make vinyl sound quieter.

In a well manufactured record using high quality vinyl, the record itself is inherently quiet.

But a noisy turntable can sound like noisy vinyl.

Tour de force in vinyl reproduction is to get Soviet Union's Melodiya, or even worse, Medunarodnaya Kniha label ( forerunner to Melodiya ) playing quietly enough to be really listenable - because some of the best recordings are on those two labels with horrible vinyl.

 

Proving one point - what we perceive as vinyl noise, is in fact the sum of all resonance(s) of the playback chain, from the junction between the diamond stylus and cantilever through ........ to the resonances in the end transducers. Records themselves do not "noise" - equipment that plays them certainly does. There are very few resonance free designs - if your phono is silent only with totally new and vacuum cleaned record, it certainly does not qualify as such. Of course even "perfect" phono will noise more with used/dirty records, but will never go berserk with them - they will be less clean, but certainly more than just listenable. A resonace(s) infested phono will be all but unlistenable with used/dirty record..

post #580 of 2699
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

In a way, yes, but not completely sure. I am familiar with top Jico offerings, and they are superb. But not to improve upon N92e stylus would be hard indeed, So I guess you found the least inexpensive way to improve your phono, as original NOS Shure commands high prices.

This stylus business in M92e works right up to the top - you can use V15VxMR stylus in it, either original or Jico's SAS.. There are two Jico SAS styli for V15VxMR, one with an aluminium cantilever http://stylus.export-japan.com/product_info.php?cPath=18&products_id=1523

 and another more expensive with higher performance boron cantilever http://stylus.export-japan.com/product_info.php?products_id=1524 or here 
http://www.turntableneedles.com/JICO-SAS-type-77x3-DSAS-for-Shure-VN5xMR_p_3878.html. Jico does something in between, a hyperelliptical 
http://stylus.export-japan.com/product_info.php?cPath=18&products_id=1005.


I guess that Jico manufactures the same stylus under different names, so that their M92e and M104e might well bw the same thing, colour of plastic holder aside. Did actually not confirm this in practice.

 
 
.

I was thinking about retipping my Shure V15 Type V MR, do you think the SAS stylus tip improves the basic sound of this cartridge?
Basically I'm asking if it will still sound like a V15 Type V MR?
Or is it a better sounding cartridge, more life, less dry, etc.
post #581 of 2699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post


Thanks,
do you hear more ambience, space, reverberation, more room sound?

In a word - yes. The trick is to make TT so resonance free and quiet that it can convey the qualities you mention without masking them with its own noise.

 

A very effective way of turntable support is to simply put it into a big enough "pool" of sand. There even was an Italian TT which basically was 300 kg (!) of quartz sand in order to supress any resonance(s) . 

post #582 of 2699
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

In a word - yes. The trick is to make TT so resonance free and quiet that it can convey the qualities you mention without masking them with its own noise.

A very effective way of turntable support is to simply put it into a big enough "pool" of sand. There even was an Italian TT which basically was 300 kg (!) of quartz sand in order to supress any resonance(s) . 

Hey!
I was asking Silent One! LOL!
post #583 of 2699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post


I was thinking about retipping my Shure V15 Type V MR, do you think the SAS stylus tip improves the basic sound of this cartridge?
Basically I'm asking if it will still sound like a V15 Type V MR?
Or is it a better sounding cartridge, more life, less dry, etc.

Tough question. Jico's SAS IS good - period. It is not the same as original V15VMR - nothing is or ever will be. Frequency response of the two styli i different - I will try to re-find the measurements. It CAN NOT BE RETIPPED - the diamond in Shure , either Alu or berilium cantilevers is pressed into  a hole, with minimum cement to be there more for security reasons than really holding it in place. It does not rely on glue to hold it in place, like so many others. At least with berylium cantilevers, I think ( to think is to know nothing ) it is not possible to remove the diamond from the hole and replace it with another diamond of exactly the same dimensions, pressing it back and glueing it with the same minuscule amount of cement as in original - WITHOUT breaking brittle beryliuum material in the process. If you menage to get the old diamond out without breaking the cantilever, and replace it with a bigger diamond mounted in embedded glue, you will end up with much increased effective mass than original, changed frequency response, etc - in short, it will not be the same anymore.

 

If you really like V15VMR, and have it in your ear as the only acceptable thing, then only route would be NOS. Jico SAS is a good replacement, in some parametrs exceeding original, in some lagging behind it a bit. Shure's quality declined towards the end, sometimes dangerously so - I have seen diamonds  so misaligned to actually threaten demage to the records. Jico's SAS is a precision product and sample to sample variations do exist, but are nowhere near possibility to actually present danger to records.

 

My V15VMR is in poor condition by now, but I liked it much better than V15VxMR. I have yet to hear Jico's SAS for Shure - I have one for Technics EPC 205CIIL cart, and it is simply superb - but has to be aligned E-X-A-C-T-L-Y. If not, it will sound inferiour to original stylus.

post #584 of 2699
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

Yes. Good TTs are all about material(combinations) - once the basics like bearings etc are right. a really good design would try to combine materials with different enoug resonant frequencies that the whole remains as resonance free as possible - and only then resort to damping . it is here that modern tables are better than vintage - where there was metal, metal and more metal, ringing forever like a bell. Just strike the bare platter of Sl 1200 and you will hear what I mean - and compare that bell to modern Project or Rega or, Heavens forbid, even Funk Firm TT ..

She was talking about the bloody stand

post #585 of 2699
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACKENEDPLAGUE View Post

She was talking about the bloody stand

Still, the similar applies - analog turntable is a mechanical device, it will sound different on different stands. 

 

I would certainly not dismiss the difference in sound reported - just because it is by a female. It is prettier gender who might dismiss all the hulabaloo regarding SQ - but given the opportunity, women are likely to start reporting  far minutest difference in sound than most male audiophiles are considering as important - or even able to hear at all. They might not be designers, might not understand physics/mathematics and/or theries, but that makes them more likely to actually report what they hear, because they are not predispositioned by "if it is made like that, it MUST be better" syndrome.

 

I've writen this once before, but will repeat it here. One very known tweeter manufacturer has come to conclusion that female employees shoud do the final QC on every tweeter produced. Soon enough, they were forced to stop this practice - because women discarded far too many units that were well within spec - automated measurements of THD etc do not get ever more critical as women did - considering an 0.1 % second harmonic distortion as reject !

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