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post #466 of 2767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post


and now you owe him royalties!

Hope not ... just checked the lyrics http://www.metrolyrics.com/speedo-lyrics-ry-cooder.html , there is no Mr. Slow actually mentioned, but Mr. Earl.

 

With the legal system in the USA, one can never be too cautious though - I had no intention of infringing anyone's copyrights. I simply used the modified line as vehicle to convey that B & K plot will not be posted so soon.

post #467 of 2767
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

Hope not ... just checked the lyrics http://www.metrolyrics.com/speedo-lyrics-ry-cooder.html , there is no Mr. Slow actually mentioned, but Mr. Earl.

 

With the legal system in the USA, one can never be too cautious though - I had no intention of infringing anyone's copyrights. I simply used the modified line as vehicle to convey that B & K plot will not be posted so soon.

 

It will probably hold up in court wink.gif

 

In the UK you can use small pieces of music for illustrative purposes without consideration for royalties. I can't remember the maximum time, but I think it was 20 seconds.

post #468 of 2767
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

Hope not ... just checked the lyrics http://www.metrolyrics.com/speedo-lyrics-ry-cooder.html , there is no Mr. Slow actually mentioned, but Mr. Earl.

 

With the legal system in the USA, one can never be too cautious though - I had no intention of infringing anyone's copyrights. I simply used the modified line as vehicle to convey that B & K plot will not be posted so soon.

 

And I always thought it was Mr. O!

Which may or may not make any sense.

Hmmmmm...........maybe it does!  wink_face.gif

post #469 of 2767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

 

And I always thought it was Mr. O!

Which may or may not make any sense.

Hmmmmm...........maybe it does!  wink_face.gif

Cruel fact - it DOES sound like Mr. O! - if phono rig (and headphones/speakers )

is/are not up to the task...confused_face_2.gif

 

Only earls of analog get that Earl right.

post #470 of 2767
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

Cruel fact - it DOES sound like Mr. O! - if phono rig (and headphones/speakers )

is/are not up to the task...confused_face_2.gif

 

Only earls of analog get that Earl right.

 

Last time I played it was on my Technics turntable with a Shure V15 Type I cartridge!

Amp was a Yamaha CR-2020.

Ahhhh...........my first stereo!

 

I'll have to play it again soon.

See what it sounds like NOW.

See if I am a Duke or a Baron (more likely I'm even stupider and duller than I was at 23).

post #471 of 2767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

 

Last time I played it was on my Technics turntable with a Shure V15 Type I cartridge!

Amp was a Yamaha CR-2020.

Ahhhh...........my first stereo!

 

I'll have to play it again soon.

See what it sounds like NOW.

See if I am a Duke or a Baron (more likely I'm even stupider and duller than I was at 23).

Never heard any V15 prior to III ( and then IV and V(MR) and VxMR ) - so can not comment on Type I and the song in question; but judging from the fact that Type I should be inferiour ...

post #472 of 2767
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

Never heard any V15 prior to III ( and then IV and V(MR) and VxMR ) - so can not comment on Type I and the song in question; but judging from the fact that Type I should be inferiour ...

 

Shure V 15 Type III, purchased in 1979, I think.     type I was a typo.

post #473 of 2767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

 

Shure V 15 Type III, purchased in 1979, I think.     type I was a typo.

It's been a loooooooooooooooooong time since I last heard the III, but I always considered it a very good cartridge. Still is, specially if fitted with the MR stylus ( i know many do not like MR on III )  or in more recent times with Jico's SAS stylus. My first non-ceramic cheap cart was Audiotronic/Shure M75ED Type 2 on Connoisseur BD2 belt driven turntable, a close but more poor relative to the III, in about 1976. Still have it, although sold to a buddy from the high school a couple of years later, only to be re-bought some two decades later, when he went totally CD. By now, its original stylus is certainly worn, but  I have many better carts that are far better in cost/performance ratio than it would be replacing the stylus with a NOS sample at present prices for Shure.

post #474 of 2767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

 

Shure V 15 Type III, purchased in 1979, I think.

 

My first Hi Fi cartridge was a Shure V15 Type III which I bought from my brother, in 1979. He had owned it for a few months and then a good job came up for him in England (we were living in Ireland) but he was just lodging there and had no room for Hi Fi stuff.

post #475 of 2767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

Shure V 15 Type III, purchased in 1979, I think.     type I was a typo.

next cartridge was a Shure V15 Type IV.........

.........followed by a Sumiko Alchemist Talisman Boron which smoked the Shures.
It made the Shures sound closed in, dull and slow.
The Sumiko was my first Moving Coil cartridge, and everyone remembers their first time!
Edited by Chris J - 1/17/13 at 4:01am
post #476 of 2767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post


next cartridge was a Shure V15 Type IV.........

.........followed by a Sumiko Alchemist Talisman Boron which smoked the Shures.
It made the Shures sound closed in, dull and slow.
The Sumiko was my first Moving Coil cartridge, and everyone remembers their first time!

One of my "nexts" was also Shure V15 Type IV - and that one was so "closed in, dull and slow" ( to remain polite about it ), that it did not last 14 days in my sytem.  At the same time bought Grado FTE+1 and Pickering XSV 3000 - Pickering lasted for about three years and got replaced by ....( too much to list or willing to publicly admit ), but old FTE+1 still ocasionally gets some playing time - with a NOS stylus, of course, or some hot rod stylus higher up in Grado line.

 

Whatever cartridge I might be using at any given time, it is accompanied by "a"  Grado - they have a certain flair to the sound that most other simply lack. Even if their frequency response leaves sometimes too much to be desired -  enough to require and warrant the use of an equalizer (!) for phono.

post #477 of 2767
Thread Starter 
Well we all do hear differently that's for sure! I've never really liked the Grado "house sound" for phono. And their cartridges have very well documented stability problems on quite a few table/arm combos (the "Grado Dance").

Oddly enough, I'm more of a European cartridge guy wink.gif Benz, Ortofon, Clearaudio. Although I also have liked a lot of the Denon carts, and currently have a DLS1 in the rotation.
post #478 of 2767

After the Sumiko Alchemist I got

 

Audio Technica OC-9       another very nice cartridge!

 

                         somewhere along the way I also tried a Shure V 15 Type V MR, meh, sounds like a Shure V 15

 

Sumiko Blue Point Special           never really fell in love with that one, it wasn't bad, I just didn't like it as much as the OC-9

 

and now:

Sumiko Blackbird          now that is a very nice cartridge, to my ears it sounds very flat and extended, very fast, open and very quiet (i.e. quiet vinyl sounds quiet, you know it when you hear it, some arm and 'table and cartridge combinations just sound noisy.

An earlier poster recommended a Rega 'table for this reason.

post #479 of 2767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

Well we all do hear differently that's for sure! I've never really liked the Grado "house sound" for phono. And their cartridges have very well documented stability problems on quite a few table/arm combos (the "Grado Dance").

Oddly enough, I'm more of a European cartridge guy wink.gif Benz, Ortofon, Clearaudio. Although I also have liked a lot of the Denon carts, and currently have a DLS1 in the rotation.

Oddly enough, I used to evaluate pre-production samples of Benz cartridges in the late 80s, culminating with my "extended tourist stay" at the factory in 1990 - obtaining Swiss permit to work is next to Mission Impossible. I was responsible mainly for the QC and was considered general PITA - as I would accept nothing but perfection. I maintain good relationship with them to this very day. You must give me credit for restraining myself from showing any bias towards Benz, despite my firm conviction they build one of the best cartridge lines in the world. Mr. Albert Lukaschek, who suceeded Mr. Ernst Benz both as owner and main designer, PERSONALLY LISTENS TO EACH AND EVERY CARTRIDGE PRIOR ALLOWING IT TO BE SHIPPED. If anything not to his liking, he will immediately instruct the gal or guy ( gals outstrip guys when it comes to hand precision work ) what to attend to - and listens again if his instructions resulted in the desired sound, repeating the process until he is satisfied..

 

Only then carts go packaging etc - the SAME goes for refurbished/retiped carts.

 

I like Ortofon, particularly things dating about 20 years back, current are not so much to my liking ( but did not hear A90 or Anna ) - and steer clear of Clearaudio carts, although their arms and TTs are another story. I have the baby brother to your DL-S1, the DL-304, along with tons of other cartridges from around the globe, including Soviet Union>Russia ( Korvet GZM-128, an extremely well accomplished MM ). The only significant cart I did not yet work with is Ikeda cantileverless pneumatic suspension MC.

 

Grado is "enfant terrible" of analog audio for the reasons you stated - yet not only they CAN be ameliorated, but it is perfectly possible to make Grado behave in absolutely exemplary manner. A Grado in a wrong arm not only performs "Grado dance", it more likely resembles a drunkard barely menaging to stay on his/hers feet. The culprit is THE CULPRIT of poor performance of phono playback, the infamous resonance resulting from compliance of the stylus suspension reacting with the effective mass of the cartridge and arm combined. Even most manufacturers do not seem to be conscious enough about the havoc it wrecks with every other aspect of performance. This is usually something that better sooner than later is swept under the rug, hopefully passing as unnoticed, and if and when noticed, hopefully dealt with by other people. An analogy every one will understand : consider your record player is a car. Your cart is an engine, your turntable is a chassis and your arm suspension system. They will happily sell you all three separately, resulting in a car that can do 400 km/h, provided the road is perfectly flat without a bump exceeding 1 mm . Because they either did not install any shock absorbers at all - or they are hopelesly mismatched for the actual resulting vehicle. The outcome of such a car in real world and its impact on the well being of its occupants and "innocent by-drivers" is unfortunatelly perfectly predictable and there is a reason why any DIY car has to past stringent atests in order to be allowed to be driven in normal traffic. You can and are allowed to do with your "phono car" whatever you please - including performing "Grado dance" - because you will be doing it on your records, not those belonging to those who sold you the equipment.. Which can and sometimes in extreme cases does culminate in yet more extreme phono sport - groove jumping. By the time any of the two appear, there is no longer anything like sound quality as we know and strive for left.

 

I am perfectly aware this is the boldest statement one can make in analog audio - because it WILL step on sore thumb of many. There is no better literature dealing with this than seminal paper  http://www.theanalogdept.com/images/spp6_pics/TT_Design/MechanicalResonances.pdf  There were a couple of very good designs that emerged as direct result after this paper was published - but they unfortunately represent(ed) a scant fraction of a percent of all record player devices. It is more than most manufacturers are capable of or willing to provide, it is more than most dealers are capable of or willing to provide to their customers ( despite margins in phono equipment is perhaps the highest of any commodity known to man that is not illegal, second only to parfumes ), and it is proven more than even avid enthusiasts are generally capable of achieving at home by themselves.

 

"A Grado" can be made rock solid in the groove - and it CAN have REFERENCE BASS SOLIDITY, something 101 % of you will perhaps claim as impossible. There is a fly in this ointment - do not expect generally someone else to do it for you.- you will have to read AND understand what above paper is saying; and then take some action in this direction. It is not only about Grado ( it is only the most known as likely to be problematic in this regard - and it is precisely this lack of internal damping that gives Grados such phenomenal definition IF properly utilized ) - EVERY cart/arm combo is affected and there is a cure for each and every one of them.

 

Trouble is, as usual, it looks expensive. Even if it originally was not, it is now - because of rarity; laws of supply and demand are still very much in power.

 

There are many ways to Rome; the same can be said about the main record player resonance measures in order to make it at least less bothersome.

post #480 of 2767
Thread Starter 
Good stuff about Benz! Thanks for posting. It's a pity they seem to have basically gone out of business. I LOVE my Benz LP-S MR. It's a pity that when it gets "used up" it seems I will have to find another brand to replace it.

I also agree about the importance of arm/cartridge matching. My Denon DP-59L is one of those few TT's you mention that had a method of addressing that - the Tonearm "Q-Damping". Actually quite effective, and allows the 59L to work well with a remarkably wide variety of carts.
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