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post #421 of 2460
Quote:
Originally Posted by penmarker View Post

So if you had adjusted the VTA, what happens to records that had minor or major warps? Will the warped part that is higher than the rest sound bad?

 

I'm curious because my tonearm has a VTA adjustment. Other than that, this is a very basic manual tonearm. Should I ever change carts, I'm going to need to readjust the VTA?

Generally get the arm parallel to the record surface, find a tracking force you like and adjust VTA very subtly until you think it sounds best. If you don't notice, Parallel is great. Tighten it up and call it a day.


Edited by goodvibes - 1/14/13 at 5:26am
post #422 of 2460
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post

Nothing wrong with the analog tape, mics or cutters from the 60s. I also haven't found modern vinyl to be quieter. What can be done vs what is commonly getting done (analog or digital) are 2 very different issues. I agree most haven't heard what good vinyl reproduction is but I disagree it gets more problematic with better associated kit. Quite the opposite and still surprising for a rattling rock in a trough.

Analog tape and vinyl of 60s are OK and in a way better than what you can use today. Regarding mics and cutters I would not be so sure. 

 

What was meant with more problematic was this : in lots of analog masters for the LP or analog master tape themselves a certain degree of compression had to be used in order to squeeze the lenght of the programe on disc and/or make it playable by majority of likely players. If you play records from 60s with an player that is not limited in dynamic range too much, it will reveal these shortcomings - it will not explode in the room with sound the way a really good uncompressed recording would. Wish vinyl was not so limited in bass and not so hard to record in treble - just take a look at the requirements for the master tape meant for LP by any of the firms still doing analog disc mastering and you will understand. It really does take great skill and experience to put anything approaching the dynamic range of digital, let alone feed from the mike as in direct to disc, on the actual vinyl record. It was only with the introduction of the latest generation of cutter heads by Neumann and Ortofon cooled with gas that became possible to put high frequency signals on disc comparable to those found on analog master tape. Those appeared at the end of 70s/begin 80s and although are far better than their predecessors, that does not preclude the possibility of making excellent recordings/masters with them - if not too much HF energy for therm is present, in hands of a skilled operator they can be every bit as good as those made with the latest generation of cutterheads.

 

Tape from the 60s has held over time rather well - not something that can be said about their sucessors that could take much higher level signals when new, enabling better signal to noise ratio -  only to deteriorate with intervening years sometimes to totally unusable condition; in worst case they phisically fall to pieces - game over.

 

Basically - I will try to find any possible flaw in anything - not for discrediting it, but for finding ways to improve upon something that already has great qualities to begin with. You should always read my posts with this in mind - if and when I am lukewarm or silent about it, it is usually because I feel it would not be worth deadhorse.gif-.This analog horse is still well alive and kicking, only I feel a new "horseshoe" etc is perhaps in order to keep it competitive for long time to come.

 

Intersting, while attending the demonstration of the then new Quiex sv http://www.classicrecords.com/blog/ record at the audio fair in Milan, Italy approx 10 years ago, there was quite a fierce opposition from the "analog camp" - the dynamic range, bass extension and channel separation of these LPs was too close to digital for their preconceptions as to what analog should sound like ! IMHO an engineer working with master tape and trying to get his/hers  pressed LP as close as humanly possible to the master tape is better suited to judge if he has suceeded or not. I never heard a master tape in home, only a few times in studio - and it is usually quite different/better from the LP issued - (  but not always - half speed mastering in particular can improve above master tape ). In this view, reaction of listeners used to normal vinyl is quite understandable - but you should not praise something for its actual weaknesses.

 

With increased quality, both analog and digital should start approaching the same sound - each  from another side, but if properly done, clearly pointing at meeting at the same point in hopefully not too distant future. If it starts diverging, this is clear indication something went wrong. Each has its own set of streghts and weaknesesses - and I will try my best to help either to get nearer to that goal. 

 

Because music is what matters in the end - and its message is sometimes so sublime and fragile that can be all too easily mangled by technicalities.

I hope we will reach that level where this mangling to technical reasons will be more of a rare fluke than regular occurence ASAP.

post #423 of 2460
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post

Generally get the arm parallel to the record surface, find a tracking force you like and adjust VTA very subtly until you think it sounds best. If you don't notice, Parallel is great. Tighten it up and call it a day.

 

Yup, I agree with you.  I think that setting the expectation that one has to adjust VTA on the fly for different types of records actually dissuades people from getting into and enjoying vinyl, and it is simply NOT TRUE that everyone has to adjust VTA per record type to enjoy playing records. It may be true for some (I think few) people, but many/most of us do not feel the need to do it.

post #424 of 2460

Like anything else, you can either play with your equipment all day or get it close and enjoy the music.

 

I have mounted a lot of cartridges but I had someone come in and set up my VPI.  And now all I do is use it.

post #425 of 2460

So I'm thinking about jumping into vinyl and  I'm considering this set:

 

Pro-Ject Debut Carbon to  Rolls Bellari VP 130 tube pre-amp to Headphones or occasionally: AudioEngine A2 speakers

 

 

Any feedback on these choices? Would I run into any problems, or would it be good to go?


Edited by Grevlin - 1/14/13 at 8:12am
post #426 of 2460
Thread Starter 

I had the Bellari for a while, nice little phono pre.  The Pro-Ject certainly has a good reputation.

post #427 of 2460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

I had the Bellari for a while, nice little phono pre.  The Pro-Ject certainly has a good reputation.


Thanks - I've been researching for about a week or so.

 

I like that the Bellari has a headphone out so I can go directly to headphones. It gets really good reviews as long as I get a better power supply and upgraded tubes - which I'm perfectly fine with. Plus - its just a sexy device, better than the usual "black box" or "silver box."

 

I'm torn between the Debut Carbon and the Rega RP1. They seem like just about dead equal - so the gloss red Debut Carbon would win with matching the Bellari.

 

The Audioengine A2's would honestly be used rarely, and I'm still not sure how the good vinyl would sound through them. They would mostly be used when I want the switch my desktop listening from headphones to speakers.

 

The record player and pre-amp could maybe move to the Master bedroom later on in the future and become a 2.1 stand-alone system.  Not sure.


Edited by Grevlin - 1/14/13 at 8:31am
post #428 of 2460

Yup. Got my dealer to come in and set up my Scout. Haven't touched it since. Just playin' records.

 

And now it sits unused because my speakers and amp haven't come in yet. D:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dminches View Post

Like anything else, you can either play with your equipment all day or get it close and enjoy the music.

 

I have mounted a lot of cartridges but I had someone come in and set up my VPI.  And now all I do is use it.

post #429 of 2460
Thread Starter 

It's a nice advantage of buying a TT and or cartridge from a good local dealer - they will do the cartridge alignment for you.  Many dealers will align a cartridge you buy from them on an existing turntable if you bring it to them.

post #430 of 2460

Yup. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

It's a nice advantage of buying a TT and or cartridge from a good local dealer - they will do the cartridge alignment for you.  Many dealers will align a cartridge you buy from them on an existing turntable if you bring it to them.

post #431 of 2460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grevlin View Post

So I'm thinking about jumping into vinyl and  I'm considering this set:

 

Pro-Ject Debut Carbon to  Rolls Bellari VP 130 tube pre-amp to Headphones or occasionally: AudioEngine A2 speakers

 

 

Any feedback on these choices? Would I run into any problems, or would it be good to go?

Pro-Jects are all competitive at their respective price points and deliver sonically. Hard to go wrong.

 

Not familiar with the amp.

post #432 of 2460

Starting own thread. Disregard post please.


Edited by Paul Graham - 1/14/13 at 12:59pm
post #433 of 2460

More record cleaning talk:

Does anyone use LAST Record Cleaner or LAST Record Preservative?

 

Here's a link to their website:

http://thelastfactory.com/

 

I often clean dirty records by:

1.   removing most of the dust and debris with a record brush

2.   pull more dust off by using a Nagaoka record cleaner (it is a sticky roller device, I keep it as clean as I can by washing it after each use)

3.   using LAST Record Cleaner to give the record a wet cleaning.   I guess you could call this a poor man's wet vacuum system.

 

4.  Occasionally I also use LAST Record preservative which is supposed to reduce record wear, but I actually use it because it seems to reduce high frequency distortion on some records. The LAST corporation states that using their record preservative actually does reduce high frequency distortion.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

Have to "brainmark" that Digital Propellerheads - GOOD one !

 

No, you can't. 

I've trademarked it and patented it, unless you want to pay me royalties????beyersmile.png

 

I don't think they hang out here anyway................

post #434 of 2460
Thread Starter 

I don't use Last record cleaner because I use a VPI wet-vacuum cleaning machine, but I DO use Last Record Preservative. I think it makes the records seem quieter, although it's pretty subjective/subtle.  I apply it immediately after cleaning on the VPI.

post #435 of 2460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

More record cleaning talk:

Does anyone use LAST Record Cleaner or LAST Record Preservative?

 

Here's a link to their website:

http://thelastfactory.com/

 

I often clean dirty records by:

1.   removing most of the dust and debris with a record brush

2.   pull more dust off by using a Nagaoka record cleaner (it is a sticky roller device, I keep it as clean as I can by washing it after each use)

3.   using LAST Record Cleaner to give the record a wet cleaning.   I guess you could call this a poor man's wet vacuum system.

 

4.  Occasionally I also use LAST Record preservative which is supposed to reduce record wear, but I actually use it because it seems to reduce high frequency distortion on some records. The LAST corporation states that using their record preservative actually does reduce high frequency distortion.

 

 

 

No, you can't. 

I've trademarked it and patented it, unless you want to pay me royalties????beyersmile.png

 

I don't think they hang out here anyway................

Yes. LAST record cleaner and LAST Record Preservative.

 

I have even measurements "before" and "after" of one of the Bruel & Kjaer test records used during their demo back in 80s.

Not a single digit measurement, but spectrum analyzer plot. The Bruel & Kjaer guys were extremely sceptic about use of anything on their ( very expensive ) records, yet their own spectrum analyzer showed on average of about 6 dB of improvement in distortion across the audible band. Less than the LAST literature/brochure was promising, but 6 dB is still an enourmous and instantly audible improvement. Will try to unearth that spectrum analyzer plot from my archives and have it scanned by a friend.

 

LAST Record Preservative is much more than just cleaning. It actually chemically improves the vinyl surface - it is here where the improvement comes from.

 

If and when I get big biggrin.gif, I might remember it and consider paying royalties beerchug.gif

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