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post #346 of 2767
Quote:
Originally Posted by KT66 View Post

Yes much much better , the first P1 is a bit of a dog

 

So I've heard. I'm leaning towards the P2 just for the RB250 tonearm (over the RB100 on the RP1)

post #347 of 2767

Two more vidz from YT regarding Knosti and Spin Clean RCMs offering good side by side comparison:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDppIeScHog

Here, some improper use and "oopses" to be avoided are also seen. You can avoid soaking the label area by filling the RCM just to the  level needed with liquid.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD7CnjA7brE&feature=endscreen&NR=1

I think this second vid is very good, as it demonstrates an extreme case of "before and after".

But I would recommend at least distilled water insteasd of lukewarm tap water - heating it up to lukewarm is also not a bad idea

( but below 35 degress Centigrade, above not good for vinyl ).

 

I would like to ask users of Spin Clean : how fast ( for how many LPs ) does the micro fiber cloth used to dry the record soak to the point it can no longer be used before drying up again ? I am asking because price difference in Europe between Knosti (approx EUR 40) and Spin Clean (usually 99) is significant and if it makes sense to get more microfiber cloths in order to be able to clean more LPs in a single session, I would like to know. I believe there are others interested in this.

 

As they say: You get what you pay for !

post #348 of 2767
I saw the spin cleaner set is being sold for RM600 plus here ($200). That's really steep.

On another note, I've gotten myself the Pro-ject Phono Preamp for quite a good price. I'll try it out when I get back home. How do they compare to other phono stages?
post #349 of 2767
Quote:
Originally Posted by penmarker View Post

I saw the spin cleaner set is being sold for RM600 plus here ($200). That's really steep.
On another note, I've gotten myself the Pro-ject Phono Preamp for quite a good price. I'll try it out when I get back home. How do they compare to other phono stages?

Back in my CD/LP retail days, "I" had a Project Phono Box SE in the system with Project RPM4 table fitted with Project K4 ( Grado Black rebrand ) and although none of these are stellar performers, if anyone with Rockport Sirius ( something VERY good, in SIX figure range $ , never heard or seen ) would say "I can not listen to this setup", I would dismiss it as overzealous snob opinion. When once a young pair of musicians just starting their career in our premier symphonic orchestra somewhat impishly laughed at the small LP bin besides mainly CDs and CDs in the store, I asked them if they have half an hour. They did. I played the same recordings from Decca 96/24 remastered CDs and Speaker Corner's re-releases on vinyl. You should see these people's "born and raised with CD sound" yaws dropped. Not only did LPs sound much better, in quite a few cases NOISE WAS APPRECIABLY LOWER WITH LP THAN CD. Professional musicians in symphonic orchestra, hearing live sound daily - not some audiophile opinion.

 

If Project Phono Box SE was not up to the task, the results would not have been that favourable.

 

There might/may be a bit better value in everything phono than Project if you really shop carefully after thoroughly researching on the internet - but you can rest assured any Project will give you at least decent performance for the money. Check your local prices, see what is available and list the options - for some reason or another, pricing can vary wildly from market to market. With some luck, you might find some "reverse pricing" - something good that is sold for less at your place than in USA or Europe, for example. Not very likely, but possible nontheless.

 

Good luck!

post #350 of 2767
Yes I've tasted the vinyl sound first hand last week when shopping for the turntable. There was a small turntable/audio store on the first floor of the mall, I entered with another friend. An unknown singer's record was playing on the turntable and the sound was amazing. I didn't catch the speaker brand or model because I was so immersed with the music. The sound was very, VERY, holographic. Literally I can feel the singer was singing in front of me accompanied by the instruments. I was completely blown away, it was amazing, it was great, I was impressed so much.

I am not a guy with perfect pitch or critical ear, but when I hear that, I knew it was really good. I got scared a little if I would catch upgraditis and spend my money on it too much. I intend to make it my long term commitment. So, slow and steady would be nice.
post #351 of 2767
Quote:
Originally Posted by penmarker View Post

Yes I've tasted the vinyl sound first hand last week when shopping for the turntable. There was a small turntable/audio store on the first floor of the mall, I entered with another friend. An unknown singer's record was playing on the turntable and the sound was amazing. I didn't catch the speaker brand or model because I was so immersed with the music. The sound was very, VERY, holographic. Literally I can feel the singer was singing in front of me accompanied by the instruments. I was completely blown away, it was amazing, it was great, I was impressed so much.
I am not a guy with perfect pitch or critical ear, but when I hear that, I knew it was really good. I got scared a little if I would catch upgraditis and spend my money on it too much. I intend to make it my long term commitment. So, slow and steady would be nice.

Nicely put. You do not need to spend a fortune on reasonably good analog - start nitpicking and you will exceed anyone's budget. So, careful, with common sense, worth seeing an pharmachist willing to sell you Anti Upgraditis pillswink_face.gif.

 

How does your TT and phono preamp now sound on HA-S 500s ?

post #352 of 2767

Be really careful with vinyl. I was discussing it with another customer at my local dealer (who also sells vinyl). We both now have the same problem. 

 

You'll be sitting at home on a day off doing nothing important and just say to yourself "I have to go to a record store. I need to get out of here."

 

BAM. Out $100 bucks.

post #353 of 2767
Quote:
Originally Posted by MorbidToaster View Post

 We both now have the same problem. 

 

At least you can admit you have the problem.  I'm still in denial.  

 

For quick fixes I buy cheaper stuff like MoFi inner sleeves, or 4 mil thick outers.  Tides me over for a little bit.  biggrin.gif

post #354 of 2767
Quote:
Originally Posted by MorbidToaster View Post

Be really careful with vinyl. I was discussing it with another customer at my local dealer (who also sells vinyl). We both now have the same problem. 

 

You'll be sitting at home on a day off doing nothing important and just say to yourself "I have to go to a record store. I need to get out of here."

 

BAM. Out $100 bucks.

OK. Pefectly familiar with that feeling. Try some X000 LPs later...

 

It can be done at MUCH lower costs than your local record store. IF you are not latest/greatest/must be ravingly reviewed by ....   type of guy/gal.

 

But please, no complaints from your parents/SWIMBOs/etc for still spending a fortune there : http://www.prex.com/visit/scorpio-music.html

 

You can get more of "stylus fine polishers/grinders" for your money from Scorpio than probably anyplace else...if you do not mind cut-outs.

 

The only REAL advantage CD  has over LP ? Back in my retail days, lots of male customers were looking longingly towards that LP bin - deciding factor was the SIZE of the thing - you CAN  smuggle in a new CD without your parents/significant other spotting your spendthrift behaviour at once - Mission Impossible with LP.

post #355 of 2767
@analogsurviver
I'm at my aunt's house and still haven't gone back to my house yet to try anything. Will report back how it sounds on my setup. Actually, I'm not really using my S500 a lot nowadays, it doesn't pair well with my tube amp. I guess it has something to do with impedance matching. I'm now considering about selling the cans, nowadays I walk around wearing $7 Cliptec IEMs that gets the job done and is fairly discrete. The headphones were too flashy for street use IMHO.

@MorbidToaster
I live far away from any record store, that's sort of a way to put me off from spending unnecessarily on it.

Though I spend a fortune on food. I eat a lot, yet I'm not fat. Curious.

Also, today I scored Pink Floyd's Dark Side of The Moon, and ELO's A New World Record.
JACKPOT!!
Wanted to get a Beethoven's but the quality is questionable.
Edited by penmarker - 1/6/13 at 11:55am
post #356 of 2767

So I'm back in my own home and got the chance to try out the turntable along with the vinyls and all. The end result was a little disappointing to me.

 

First off, the phono stage hums because my power source isn't exactly clean. We only have two wall sockets, and I'm using an extension on top of another extension, both of which has most of the sockets used by a router, a modem, my computer peripherals, and etc. So now there is that humming coming on and sometimes it would go off leaving a very soft low volume hum, and climbs back up again. I though it was from the turntable, but turning off AND unplugging it still doesn't diminish any hum. From there I tried to unplug the phono stage itself, presto, the hum stops.

 

Other than that, the vinyls themselves are very noisy heard from headphones. I have a microfiber cloth, but i guess its not fine enough to get into the grooves to clear out the dusts. Also the sound is generally flatter than the vinyl rips I have of the same albums in my computer.

 

I guess to chase perfection with vinyl will consume a huge chunk of my time and money.

 

Challenge accepted.

 

**edit: 
Oh my ABBA Arrival sounds so good. I guess the vinyl records need to be really REALLY clean. (This one was cleaned by the previous owner) also the phono stage isn't humming now. Should start humming any time soon.


Edited by penmarker - 1/7/13 at 2:38am
post #357 of 2767
The secret to happy LP playing , is getting the right pressings and access to a vacuum cleaning machine
post #358 of 2767
Quote:
Originally Posted by penmarker View Post

So I'm back in my own home and got the chance to try out the turntable along with the vinyls and all. The end result was a little disappointing to me.

 

First off, the phono stage hums because my power source isn't exactly clean. We only have two wall sockets, and I'm using an extension on top of another extension, both of which has most of the sockets used by a router, a modem, my computer peripherals, and etc. So now there is that humming coming on and sometimes it would go off leaving a very soft low volume hum, and climbs back up again. I though it was from the turntable, but turning off AND unplugging it still doesn't diminish any hum. From there I tried to unplug the phono stage itself, presto, the hum stops.

 

Other than that, the vinyls themselves are very noisy heard from headphones. I have a microfiber cloth, but i guess its not fine enough to get into the grooves to clear out the dusts. Also the sound is generally flatter than the vinyl rips I have of the same albums in my computer.

 

I guess to chase perfection with vinyl will consume a huge chunk of my time and money.

 

Challenge accepted.

 

**edit: 
Oh my ABBA Arrival sounds so good. I guess the vinyl records need to be really REALLY clean. (This one was cleaned by the previous owner) also the phono stage isn't humming now. Should start humming any time soon.

Oh dear - FORGOT to write in my previous post regarding hum/noise :

 

DIGITAL AND ANALOG DO NOT MIX WELL - WORSE IS COMPUTER RIG that puts any amount of garbage back to the power line feeding it ( and everything else in your case ). Try totally unplugging your computer rig from the wall and see if it helps with your phono.

 

EVERYBODY - try this in your own system:

 

The worse thing in an analog rig is to have anything with a microprocessor plugged into a wall. A CD /VHS / anything with digital display/player, even if it has power turned off by the power switch, will still cause audible degradation in top analog setups by simply being plugged into the wall outlet. Plug it out - if your analog just went a notch up in quality, now you know what has been holding it back. Some CD/etc players are more, some less offensive in this regard, but none will make your analog sound better if plugged into wall outlet while not in use. I used to carry around a portable battery powered CD player to demonstrate the effect, and people with prohibitively expensive CD players were shocked that overall comparable or better reproduction was possible from a fraction of a fraction of the cost of their on paper far superior stationary wall outlet powered CD player. Portable battery powered CD player will not be the ultimate in anything, but will not feed garbage back to your power line and will not necesitate expensive power conditioning. It can positively surprise with SQ. Get two sets of fast rechargeable batteries and charger for it and you should be well off.

 

The user manual for Versa Dynamics turntable(s) warns specifically against this; it is so devilishly good that merely plugging a CD player in wall outlet feedeing the Versa will have the effect of throwing sheets from your bed over your speakers. I thought this claim was a wild exagerration - until heard.

 

Back to earth - does your household electrical connection has any grounding - 2 or 3 wires/contacts in your wall outlet ? If not properly grounded, it can hum like mad - just the fact that your outlet socket in walls have three contacts does not necessarily mean they are all connected properly as they should have been in the first place. Time and time again, after the arrangements for me to come and adjust a phono rig were made, this "simple & trivial" grounding problem kept popping up - sure it will hum, if your entire house is "in the air" ! Almost became household electrician due to this "collateral demage" ...

 

If not completely sure what you are doing, please have a certified electrician do it for you - safety first.

 

Your guess unfortunately does have an affirmative answer. Keep it reasonable ! 

 

As always, enjoy your music !

 

P.S: Now you know, first hand, WHY record cleaning was so emphasised in this thread. Back in the day I was your age, the only available Record Cleaning Machine was from Keith Monks - FAR too expensive for me at the time to even consider. Although Knosti or Spin Clean are not as effective as vacuum cleaning, they sure beat nothing at all. KAB vacuum RCM mentioned in this thread is perhaps best bang for the buck - you would have to invest 5 figure in $ just for the cartridge that is so good that "somehow" menages to play music and not noise from the dirty record - but would still sound worse than your present rig with at least Knosti clean records.


Edited by analogsurviver - 1/7/13 at 3:38am
post #359 of 2767

Thanks analogsurviver, can't wait to try this in a few days. Will first remove the DVD from system, while playing vinyl. Then will remove the Mac music server from the rig next and listen out for changes.

post #360 of 2767

Thanks a lot analogsurviver, very insightful.

 

I have one more question, what about power conditioners? Will they help in conditioning the power fed into my vinyl setup? I'm asking because a friend of mine suggested that.

Also, are power conditioners the same as automatic voltage regulators (AVR)?

 

I'm worried the power extensions might have some minor shortages. I guess I should've mentioned this earlier.

When I was hooking up my plug extension, it was onto another extension. And I have another box-shaped socket splitter that splits one socket into three, and it has a little LED indicator light. When I had plugged it in without flipping the switch on, the LED lit up. Even before turning on the extension was already powered albeit maybe at small voltages.

 

I have no other power outlets here to test out whether my extension is faulty, or the extension I am plugging it into was faulty, or the wall socket itself.

 

On another note about cleaning records, a record seller told me to wash it under running water with a soft cloth, and do not use any chemicals on it. Now I have a few conflicting opinions. Wouldn't washing it under running water will soak the label? I'm worried the label might get washed off.

 

**edit:

This is weird, I tried moving the phono stage around and playing with the connections and now the hum subsided (to a lower level though, I cannot completely remove it really).


Edited by penmarker - 1/7/13 at 5:34am
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