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post #2101 of 2648
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post
 

Not only that; it will track test record, 300 Hz @+18dB ( famous torture track on HFN record - provided that the cartridge is capable of tracking this level in the first place ), if you gently rotate it holding it in the air whatever direction/position you fancy and connecting cords will allow - without a hiccup ...

 

The first model from the series, the SL10, was headlined in the review at the time it appeared in italian magazine Suono:

 

Il primo giradischi Kamasutra - che souna in tutte le posizioni

 

Don't think it needs translation... - but the design is the most stable record tracker I am familiar with.


if i didn't have one already, i would want one now XD

 

in fact, i'm looking for a 2nd and 3rd one, one for in my bedroom, and one at my mum's.

of course, this would also mean that i need to get 2 more pre-amps, head-amps, and another two cartridges.

 

and then i need to get a powersupply on the bench in the park where i'll be staying ;P

post #2102 of 2648
Quote:
Originally Posted by CH23 View Post
 


if i didn't have one already, i would want one now XD

 

in fact, i'm looking for a 2nd and 3rd one, one for in my bedroom, and one at my mum's.

of course, this would also mean that i need to get 2 more pre-amps, head-amps, and another two cartridges.

 

and then i need to get a powersupply on the bench in the park where i'll be staying ;P

SL 7 you have has the 12V DC jack adjacent to audio outputs (meant for operation off car battery) ; it works FAR better off 12 V battery (or external PSU, but I prefer battery) than plugged into the mains. You have to pay attention of the polarity of the 12V plug - if you get it wrong, you will blow only a fuse, and not the TT iself; however, that fuse replacement requires dismantling the TT and is very time consuming, so polarity should be  correct the  first time around.

 

So, for the hard core analog cases: SL 10 (metal construction, withstands rigors of portable use better, includes MC pre-preamp ), TC-750 phono pre ( sold under too many brands to name, also works with 12 V battery better than with mains ), your usual portable headphone amplifier & cans; batteries ; add a backpack custom made to fit the above plus say at least 10 LPs - and you are literally ready for the proverbial desert island.

 

Add some solar powered re-charging for the batteries; Technics SL series is electricity guzzler, at approx 800 mA a (still reasonable) 4,5 Ah 12V sealed lead battery lasts about 5 hours; after voltage drops too low, performance becomes erratic in ever funnier ways the more the voltage drops.

post #2103 of 2648
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post
 

SL 7 you have has the 12V DC jack adjacent to audio outputs (meant for operation off car battery) ; it works FAR better off 12 V battery (or external PSU, but I prefer battery) than plugged into the mains. You have to pay attention of the polarity of the 12V plug - if you get it wrong, you will blow only a fuse, and not the TT iself; however, that fuse replacement requires dismantling the TT and is very time consuming, so polarity should be  correct the  first time around.

 

So, for the hard core analog cases: SL 10 (metal construction, withstands rigors of portable use better, includes MC pre-preamp ), TC-750 phono pre ( sold under too many brands to name, also works with 12 V battery better than with mains ), your usual portable headphone amplifier & cans; batteries ; add a backpack custom made to fit the above plus say at least 10 LPs - and you are literally ready for the proverbial desert island.

 

Add some solar powered re-charging for the batteries; Technics SL series is electricity guzzler, at approx 800 mA a (still reasonable) 4,5 Ah 12V sealed lead battery lasts about 5 hours; after voltage drops too low, performance becomes erratic in ever funnier ways the more the voltage drops.

 

i replaced the RCA , ground, and power cables before. it's easier to take apart than you'd think.

 

a portable turntable setup would be so awesome.

i could even do this with my current amp(grado RA-1 works on 2 9V batteries) and pre-amp (Grado PH-1 should function on 2 9V batteries as well)

 

maybe someday....

 

you really are a well of information to me. thanks.

post #2104 of 2648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rem1x View Post
 

Hi guys,

I am still loving my Marantz TT and have really enjoyed using it and the vinyl I have purchased.

 

Do any of you guys have any suggestions for a phono preamp?  I really would like to upgrade the one I have as it is by far the weakest link in my setup right now.

 

Here is currently what I am using - Marantz TT-15S1 -> Cambridge Audio 651P -> Woo Audio WA2 -> Senn HD800

 

I love warmth with my HD800's so maybe a good lush, warm phono preamp.  Any experiences and recommendations would be most welcome!


The week link in your chain. The Cambridge 651 and 640 are notorious for being somewhat veiled for many tastes. There are even upgrade steps (changing parts) online because it is known. Also, it is not a QUIET amp...a lot of background noise and hum.

 

Better choice ? without a doubt the Musical Surroundings Phonomena II. If all else gets replaced, you would have this phono stage for years to come.

post #2105 of 2648
Quote:
Originally Posted by CH23 View Post
 

 

i replaced the RCA , ground, and power cables before. it's easier to take apart than you'd think.

 

a portable turntable setup would be so awesome.

i could even do this with my current amp(grado RA-1 works on 2 9V batteries) and pre-amp (Grado PH-1 should function on 2 9V batteries as well)

 

maybe someday....

 

you really are a well of information to me. thanks.

Technics SL series varies how hard it is to acess that fuse if it gets blown for any reason - SL 7 is far easier to work with than SL 10. 

 

The main point in case of SL7/10/15 is: it works better with outboard 12V DC than under "its own steam", plugged into a wall AC outlet. Try it - once all that grime removed is heard , you will disable that AC socket - for good.

post #2106 of 2648
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcorob View Post
 


The week link in your chain. The Cambridge 651 and 640 are notorious for being somewhat veiled for many tastes. There are even upgrade steps (changing parts) online because it is known. Also, it is not a QUIET amp...a lot of background noise and hum.

 

Better choice ? without a doubt the Musical Surroundings Phonomena II. If all else gets replaced, you would have this phono stage for years to come.



I have heard good things about that, I will check more into it and thanks for the recommendation.  Anyone have any experience or heard good things about Graham Slee's phono preamps?

 

post #2107 of 2648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rem1x View Post
 



I have heard good things about that, I will check more into it and thanks for the recommendation.  Anyone have any experience or heard good things about Graham Slee's phono preamps?

 

You can listen to downloads of cartridges recorded trough Graham Slee phono preamps here:

 

http://p-mount.net/

 

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/nine-cartridge-survey-produces-audible-results

 

It is not "live", but still better than anyone's review ... - judge with your own ears.

post #2108 of 2648
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post
 

You can listen to downloads of cartridges recorded trough Graham Slee phono preamps here:

 

http://p-mount.net/

 

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/nine-cartridge-survey-produces-audible-results

 

It is not "live", but still better than anyone's review ... - judge with your own ears.

 

I found a lot of different cartridge music files, but didn't see any phono preamps.

post #2109 of 2648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rem1x View Post
 

 

I found a lot of different cartridge music files, but didn't see any phono preamps.


afaik they were all recorded using the same pre amp.

post #2110 of 2648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rem1x View Post
 

 

I found a lot of different cartridge music files, but didn't see any phono preamps.

All of the carts have been recorded trough "Graham Slee" phono preamp(s). For the exact model, configuration, cartridge loading, etc, etc, you can contact either Bob at www.p-mount-net or Michael Fremer at analogplanet.

 

*IF* you had any idea just how much time consuming meticulous adjustment of cartridges and "pairing" them to phono preamp with all the loading problems actually is, 

you would have not even dare to dream asking such a question. Yes, the conditions are less than clear, yes, files are not normalized to some refernce signal, yes, some are not even at the correct speed - but I am stil grateful to both Bob and Michael for making them, as imperfect as they are, available at all. Still, you have to consider there WILL be losses in analog to digital conversion at the recording stage and also at the digital to analog at the reproduction stage - so far, no digital, DSD128 included, is totally indistinguishable from original analog. Both 48/24 and 96/24 files used are compromise at best - but still, should give idea of the general differences between the cartridges and phono preamps.

 

I will do similar, but without all the flaws known from the above - and I do hope no others will start creeping in.  But I CAN tell you something: the importance of the phono stage IS OVERRATED by most audiophiles. It really starts to get important once the stylus/cart/arm/table is at the certain level - so worrying if a phono stage would improve say an Ortofon 2M Red ( providede that said phono is semi decent ) is misleading at least. If we are talking entry level, money spent on better stylus/cart/arm WILL always bring more sonically than phono stage. Remember, even the bloody dirt cheapest phono preamp you can possibly find anywhere HAS basically better performance than even the best ( and costliest - they peak over 30 K$... ) phono cartridge. Of course, there are differences in performance and subjective sound of phono preamps - but what comes to phono input should always be as good as humanly po$$ible - in the first place. Much, if not actually most of the differences heard with various phono preamps, can be tracked down to the electrical cartridge loading - ONLY if this loading is made exactly the same for both (or more) phono preams under test, has the test any real meaning. Loading can change frequency response by several dBs - how on earth should then be possible to evaluate RIAA accuracy by ear, 

between say + - 0.5 dB and +- 0.1 dB speced phono preamps ? It could be that the worse RIAA speced preamp actually has electrical loading more suitable for the cartridge it is used with for the test - and overall result would be better than with more accurate RIAA preamp with (slightly) mismatched electrical loading. 

 

All the above said - does not prevent me from using totally dual mono dual battery power supply pre-preamplifier for MCs ...

 

I will not start doing these recordings prior to getting a decent ultrasonic RCM - most likely DIY style. So, it will not be soon.

post #2111 of 2648
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post
 

All of the carts have been recorded trough "Graham Slee" phono preamp(s). For the exact model, configuration, cartridge loading, etc, etc, you can contact either Bob at www.p-mount-net or Michael Fremer at analogplanet.

 

*IF* you had any idea just how much time consuming meticulous adjustment of cartridges and "pairing" them to phono preamp with all the loading problems actually is, 

you would have not even dare to dream asking such a question. Yes, the conditions are less than clear, yes, files are not normalized to some refernce signal, yes, some are not even at the correct speed - but I am stil grateful to both Bob and Michael for making them, as imperfect as they are, available at all. Still, you have to consider there WILL be losses in analog to digital conversion at the recording stage and also at the digital to analog at the reproduction stage - so far, no digital, DSD128 included, is totally indistinguishable from original analog. Both 48/24 and 96/24 files used are compromise at best - but still, should give idea of the general differences between the cartridges and phono preamps.

 

I will do similar, but without all the flaws known from the above - and I do hope no others will start creeping in.  But I CAN tell you something: the importance of the phono stage IS OVERRATED by most audiophiles. It really starts to get important once the stylus/cart/arm/table is at the certain level - so worrying if a phono stage would improve say an Ortofon 2M Red ( providede that said phono is semi decent ) is misleading at least. If we are talking entry level, money spent on better stylus/cart/arm WILL always bring more sonically than phono stage. Remember, even the bloody dirt cheapest phono preamp you can possibly find anywhere HAS basically better performance than even the best ( and costliest - they peak over 30 K$... ) phono cartridge. Of course, there are differences in performance and subjective sound of phono preamps - but what comes to phono input should always be as good as humanly po$$ible - in the first place. Much, if not actually most of the differences heard with various phono preamps, can be tracked down to the electrical cartridge loading - ONLY if this loading is made exactly the same for both (or more) phono preams under test, has the test any real meaning. Loading can change frequency response by several dBs - how on earth should then be possible to evaluate RIAA accuracy by ear, 

between say + - 0.5 dB and +- 0.1 dB speced phono preamps ? It could be that the worse RIAA speced preamp actually has electrical loading more suitable for the cartridge it is used with for the test - and overall result would be better than with more accurate RIAA preamp with (slightly) mismatched electrical loading. 

 

All the above said - does not prevent me from using totally dual mono dual battery power supply pre-preamplifier for MCs ...

 

I will not start doing these recordings prior to getting a decent ultrasonic RCM - most likely DIY style. So, it will not be soon.

 

I was simply confused by how to navigate through the site to find the different phono preamp samples.  I think the Cambridge Phono Preamp certainly is my weakest link as I said so I am still on the hunt for the perfect completion of my analogue setup.  (aka a great preamp). 

Thanks for the help and it sounds like one day you are thinking of doing a comparison of your own?  If so I will still probably be around here somewhere and would love to check it out!

post #2112 of 2648

@analogsurviver: is there any specific 12v psu for which i should be looking? (keep in mind:european plug is required)


Edited by CH23 - 1/22/14 at 4:40am
post #2113 of 2648
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post
 

 But I CAN tell you something: the importance of the phono stage IS OVERRATED by most audiophiles. It really starts to get important once the stylus/cart/arm/table is at the certain level - so worrying if a phono stage would improve say an Ortofon 2M Red ( providede that said phono is semi decent ) is misleading at least. If we are talking entry level, money spent on better stylus/cart/arm WILL always bring more sonically than phono stage. Remember, even the bloody dirt cheapest phono preamp you can possibly find anywhere HAS basically better performance than even the best ( and costliest - they peak over 30 K$... ) phono cartridge.

Bad analogsurvivor BAD :deadhorse:

 

Half of what you said is true and half is so wrong you need to be on the horse end of the stick.

 

For a cheap entry level cart, yes, phono stage is not going to make angels sing and brass knobs shine brighter. But to say phono stage is overrated ? Why do you keep posting opinions like fact ?

 

One you get away from entry level, the phono stage is vitally important. Many newer receivers (and a lot of older) add phono to their systems as an afterthought. They are barely tolerable. Take that same system, a decent cart (MM, MI or MC) and add an outboard phono stage and quality changes.

 

I really don't want to go into this. You seem like a smart guy with a lot of buzz words and background knowledge but many times you post crap and call it steak sandwich.

 

Hope about the next time you are going to post these diatribe of mythical knowledge, you post some links to verifiable facts. I am POSITIVE that Michael Fremer would disagree with you on the phone stage. And then to say the cheapest phono stage will best even the costliest cartridge ? NOT.

 

Many phono stages don't do carts justice. THAT is the problem. The choke the life out of say, MC carts if they have standard 100ohm loads. Who the hell said 100ohms is the BE ALL END ALL .

 

Man...you make me want to take a pill....I love ya guy but stop being the guru and start being FACTUAL.

post #2114 of 2648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rem1x View Post
 



I have heard good things about that, I will check more into it and thanks for the recommendation.  Anyone have any experience or heard good things about Graham Slee's phono preamps?

 


Just so you know, many MM phono stages will suit for an MM cart but for MC, while the ~~Graham Slee's phono preamps are "nice" they have the one fatal flaw of many MC amps. They don't allow input ohm setting. SO its one size fits all at 100ohm....even if your cart likes lower or higher. Too bad.

 

That's why I recommended a phono stage like the Phonomena II. LOOK for those features for the cart you have now and will be there for you on any future carts.

post #2115 of 2648
Quote:
Originally Posted by CH23 View Post
 

@analogsurviver: is there any specific 12v psu for which i should be looking? (keep in mind:european plug is required)

12 V 4,5 Ah sealed lead battery + smart charger for it ... - no need for super low output impedance/resistance battery, better to get two; one in use, other one charging.

 

If you are electronically able, you could perhaps design your own charger; ideally it should stop powering the TT if voltage drops too low, shoulf be on charging/trickle charge whenever TT not in use. As noted before, fully charged  4.5Ah battery would last approx 5 hours.

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