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TURNTABLE SETUP Questions thread - don't start a new thread, ASK YOUR QUESTION HERE! - Page 127

post #1891 of 2460
Quote:
Originally Posted by CH23 View Post
 

yesterday rewired my turntables RCA cable, ground wire,(which are now double the length) and electricity cable. it's amazing how much the sound has improved with these normal RCA wires.

 

@analogsurviver what's so special about the uturn kickstarter turntable? to me it looks like a pro-ject turntable?

The arm.

 

Unipivot arms offer the least friction, save for air bearing arm. They are self-healing so to speak, it means the tightness of the bearing is adjusted by gravity - zero play and minimum friction guaranteed, in every sample, by design. Conventional bearings of really decent quality start at like $ 500 - bearings only, no arm, let alone table!

 

The only quirk of the U-turn arm is the absence of the antiskating. It can be easily hacked in most cases - but once it is out, I expect someone to come up with aftermarket antiskating for it. Hopefully not charging the same as the deck itself for the antiskating mechanism alone !

post #1892 of 2460
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post
 

The arm.

 

Unipivot arms offer the least friction, save for air bearing arm. They are self-healing so to speak, it means the tightness of the bearing is adjusted by gravity - zero play and minimum friction guaranteed, in every sample, by design. Conventional bearings of really decent quality start at like $ 500 - bearings only, no arm, let alone table!

 

The only quirk of the U-turn arm is the absence of the antiskating. It can be easily hacked in most cases - but once it is out, I expect someone to come up with aftermarket antiskating for it. Hopefully not charging the same as the deck itself for the antiskating mechanism alone !

and what about linear arms vs unipivot?

post #1893 of 2460
Quote:
Originally Posted by CH23 View Post
 

and what about linear arms vs unipivot?

This is slippery terrain. If you love soundstage width, depth and height uber alles, linear. If you possibly can not stomach the slightest loss in bass tightness, slam and weight - unipivot. 

 

But both designs, well executed and adjusted, can bring first class result. Two of my 4 arms on my research & development TT are unipivot and linear air bearing - the third being WTA improved clone,

4th Transcriptors Vestigal - heavily modded.

post #1894 of 2460

Thanks guys all your help. It can get confusing very quickly for newbies.

 

Analogsurvivor,

 

I have taken your advice and bit the bullet on a JICO SAS

 

This head fi game is a bit of a slippery old slope I only originally wanted a pair of head phones to listen to when my little one was asleep in the evenings!

 

Some how I have managed to go from a pair of  HD650 to a Marantz NA7004 as a bedroom amp/dac rig then some preloved Beyer T1's followed  by a turntable. Not forgetting the Bottlehead Crack which is in build to now this exotic sounding  Boron armed Octahedron diamond micro ridge S.A.S Super Analogue Stylus.

 

A slippery slope indeed.

 

Looking forward to seeing Cara Dillon sing tomorrow evening, booked as a present for wife's birthday.

 

Cheers

 

Jamie

 

 


Edited by JamieMcC - 11/13/13 at 12:36pm
post #1895 of 2460
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieMcC View Post
 

Thanks guys all your help. It can get confusing very quickly for newbies.

 

Analogsurvivor,

 

I have taken your advice and bit the bullet on a JICO SAS

 

This head fi game is a bit of a slippery old slope I only originally wanted a pair of head phones to listen to when my little one was asleep in the evenings!

 

Some how I have managed to go from a pair of  HD650 to a Marantz NA7004 as a bedroom amp/dac rig then some preloved Beyer T1's followed  by a turntable. Not forgetting the Bottlehead Crack which is in build to now this exotic sounding  Boron armed Octahedron diamond micro ridge S.A.S Super Analogue Stylus.

 

A slippery slope indeed.

 

Looking forward to seeing Cara Dillon sing tomorrow evening, booked as a present for wife's birthday.

 

Cheers

 

Jamie

 

 

I hope you will find it to your liking. It is more tricky to set up right, but should not present too much trouble. If set up proves too much, just ask.

 

In our country we have a saying ( direct translation, it rhymes in our language ):

 

Where bull went, rope should follow !

 

( another way of saying sorry for your wallet in this case )

 

Really nice birthday present - enjoy it, both of you !

post #1896 of 2460
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post
 

The arm.

 

Unipivot arms offer the least friction, save for air bearing arm. They are self-healing so to speak, it means the tightness of the bearing is adjusted by gravity - zero play and minimum friction guaranteed, in every sample, by design. Conventional bearings of really decent quality start at like $ 500 - bearings only, no arm, let alone table!

 

The only quirk of the U-turn arm is the absence of the antiskating. It can be easily hacked in most cases - but once it is out, I expect someone to come up with aftermarket antiskating for it. Hopefully not charging the same as the deck itself for the antiskating mechanism alone !

AND!!! its cheaper :) 
but im still waiting.... I believe that are developing a Q-up like product that will be released after they have caught up with shipping (or so they say). Dunno anything about an anti-skate but I think they said that they didnt want it. 

 

Questions:

  1. Im starting to buy analog accessories needed for my turntable. The audioquest Carbon Fiber brush is a popular item but after reading reviews (including amazon), I am a bit worried because of all the instance of either scratching or bristles falling out. Is this a legit concern or are those people who have problem n00bs? I saw that the Hunt carbon brush had generally better reviews but I am wondering if this is just a general flaw for carbon fiber brushes. If so, they what would be a good or better alternative for dry cleaning? 
  2. I had more questions but got distracted by THIS, and was amused by the blank vinyl.
  3. Oh i remembered one, does anyone recommend the Michael Fremer discs (first one more so than the second)? There are plenty of written instructions supplemented by pictures but video or real time is always best, no? 

 

Thanks,
John

post #1897 of 2460

Ha ha, that antiskating video cracked me up ! I actually did follow this very bloke's advice on SL1210 repairs - which are GREAT and highly recommended. But with this antiskating one he "kicked in the fog" - as is the slang expression for such behaviour around here. Cleaning the records DY style as in one of his other vids is not exactly my cup of tea either...

 

Blank disk is for setting the antiskating, or more precisely put the total lack or absence of, in setting up self propelled linear tracking arms ONLY, be it air or roller bearing type. These arms, particularly air bearing with next to no friction ( wiring is the limit and !"#$%&/())==?* ( curse outdoing anything in English language ) of linear arms ) are far better spirit levels than anything else, and will tend to skate outwards or inwards if TT is not levelled to the n-th degree. In fact, they are used to level TTs ... This, of course, if the lateral geometry with the linear tracking arm is PERFECT - no visible error across the entire playing surface. Else, there are vectors also affecting "antiskate" - do not try to "fudge" slight geometry error with "leveling" - make it right !

 

Antiskating is ALWAYS a compromise. The higher VTF required, the more inevitable antiskating errors are pronounced >>>>>>>> linear arms. 

At up to say 1.2 gram  (12 mN to be exact ) it is kind of OK, above that it starts to rear its ugly head and becomes audible. It depends on the stylus shape, cartridge suspension, tracking error, etc, etc - and can only be adjusted correctly with the aid of a good test record, such as oft cited HiFiNews HFN test record http://www.vinylengine.com/hfn-002-test-lp.shtml. There is a catch & dillema only you can decide what to do : in order to be able to track the high(er) levels of the modulation at 300 Hz ( which became the standard frequency for tracking purposes ), particularly the highest +18dB track, you will usually have to apply FAR more antiskating. It is needed only for the short durations of peaks, less than 1% of the playing time - but will pull towards outside , skewing the central position of your cantilever towards inside and increase the stylus wear on the right channel side 100 % of the time. My decision is to decrease the antiskate low enough that there is no "morse-code" type of mistracking of the right channel at the highest level cartridge can still play within or slightly above the VTF limits as prescribed by the manufacturer - but do not push for completely clean signal in both channels at the highest level track.

 

See why I ultimately grew to prefer linear trackers? - NO such compromise involved. Sometimes, you can have your cake and eat it too.


Edited by analogsurviver - 11/15/13 at 1:21am
post #1898 of 2460
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post
 

Ha ha, that antiskating video cracked me up ! I actually did follow this very bloke's advice on SL1210 repairs - which are GREAT and highly recommended. But with this antiskating one he "kicked in the fog" - as is the slang expression for such beahaviour around here. Cleaning the records DY style as in one of his other vids is not exactly my cup of tea either...

 

Blank disk is for setting the antiskating, or more precisely put the total lack or absence of, in setting up self propelled linear tracking arms ONLY, be it air or roller bearing type. These arms, particularly air bearing with next to no friction ( wiring is the limit and !"#$%&/())==?* ( curse outdoing anything in English language ) of linear arms ) are far better spirit levels than anything else, and will tend to skate outwards or inwards if TT is not levelled to the n-th degree. In fact, they are used to level TTs ... This, of course, if the lateral geometry with the linear tracking arm is PERFECT - no visible error across the entire playing surface. Else, there are vectors also affecting "antiskate" - do not try to "fudge" slight geometry error with "leveling" - make it right !

 

Antiskating is ALWAYS a compromise. The higher VTF required, the more inevitable antiskating errors are pronounced >>>>>>>> linear arms. 

At up to say 1.2 gram  (12 mN to be exact ) it is kind of OK, above that it starts to rear its ugly head and becomes audible. It depends on the stylus shape, cartridge suspension, tracking error, etc, etc - and can only be adjusted correctly with the aid of a good test record, such as oft cited HiFiNews HFN test record http://www.vinylengine.com/hfn-002-test-lp.shtml. There is a catch & dillema only you can decide what to do : in order to be able to track the high(er) levels of the modulation at 300 Hz ( which became the standard frequency for tracking purposes ), particularly the highest +18dB track, you will usually have to apply FAR more antiskating. It is needed only for the short durations of peaks, less than 1% of the playing time - but will pull towards outside , skewing the central position of your cantilever towards inside and increase the stylus wear on the right channel side 100 % of the time. My decision is to decrease the antiskate low enough that there is no "morse-code" type of mistracking of the right channel at the highest level cartridge can still play within or slightly above the VTF limits as prescribed by the manufacturer - but do not push for completely clean signal in both channels at the highest level track.

 

See why I ultimately grew to prefer linear trackers? - NO such compromise involved. Sometimes, you can have your cake and eat it too.


so glad i made a linear tracking turntable my weapon of choice. even more so after reading this sort of stuff XD

post #1899 of 2460

Well Cara Dillon was on great form once again last night, simply stunning vocals its spellbinding how she can convey such emotion and musicality when she sings. Its also a real treat to watch the very skillfull acoustic musicians who make up the rest of the band think "the transatlantic sessions". We even managed to have a chat after the show for a few minutes and she wished the misses happy birthday who was clearly was over the moon and grinning from ear to ear. I hoped to ask if their new album might also be released on vinyl but to be honest Cara was so radiant it completely slipped my mind.

The support act were two guys called  "Winter Mountain"  sort of a folksy Simon & Garfunkel sound, nice harmonies.

 Anyhow a great night out was had by all.

post #1900 of 2460
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post
 

This is slippery terrain. If you love soundstage width, depth and height uber alles, linear. If you possibly can not stomach the slightest loss in bass tightness, slam and weight - unipivot. 

 

But both designs, well executed and adjusted, can bring first class result. Two of my 4 arms on my research & development TT are unipivot and linear air bearing - the third being WTA improved clone,

4th Transcriptors Vestigal - heavily modded.

This might not be the case with the Trans-Fi T3. I have never used it, only other linears.

post #1901 of 2460

Trans Fi T3 is a further development of the design originated from Poul Ladegaard of Bruel & Kjaer fame .

It is air bearing in horizontal and coventional bearing in vertical direction. Although the inverted V shaped air bearing has enormous surface and very low gap dimension - ultimately it still is air in this gap. And air is compressible, therefore any air bearing arm is ultimately too soft "anchored" to the table. 

 

This is where a unipivot or extremely ingenious arrangement of the Kuzma 4Point will ultimately ALWAYS smoke any air bearing arm(s) - in bass (slam, power, whatever you might call it ). Both designs are by default free of bearing chatter that pleagues most arms with conventional ball bearings of some description.

 

The tables turn when soundstage and freedom from distortion across the entire record playing surface is concerned. Here, no pivoted arm can win - if the cartridge is truly and not only on paper state of the art.

 

It ultimately boils down to one's preferences. I prefer linears ( I use Eminent Technology ET2, a very good air bearing arm, that is according to several reports inferiour to Trans Fi T3 ) - but grass in the bass can be greener on an unipivot. That is why both types grace my R & D turntable - sometimes with the same type of cartridge on both.

 

However, there IS a linear arm approaching ideal well "anchored" operation - Opus 3 Cantus. Please see my post either in Post picture ... or this thread - about half a year ago. I can guarantee you first hand it has subterranean bass AND great soundstage across entire record playing surface.


Edited by analogsurviver - 11/18/13 at 3:47am
post #1902 of 2460

Interesting, I have never used a Unipivot. I'm getting a new table and might look at some 10" UP based on your comments.

 

I enjoyed the MG1 when I had it but time for something different, but at $600 it's hard to pass up...

 

Here is a LT I never saw before:

 

http://doggonetrust.com/zorin-analog-sound/

 

post #1903 of 2460
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorcilantro View Post
 

Interesting, I have never used a Unipivot. I'm getting a new table and might look at some 10" UP based on your comments.

 

I enjoyed the MG1 when I had it but time for something different, but at $600 it's hard to pass up...

 

Here is a LT I never saw before:

 

http://doggonetrust.com/zorin-analog-sound/

 

I have seen this LT a while ago - more or less it is a knock-off of the arm on the Versa Dynamics TURNTABLE SYSTEM . It is not going to work anything to its full potential on lesser turntable without vacuum hold down system at least - but air bearing turntable, like all Versa models, sure does add a notch or two..

 

Here the almighty Opus 3 Cantus ( in its native habitat, on Opus 3 Continuo TT ) :

 

post #1904 of 2460
I'm fairly sure that this is only semi related to this thread, but:

I have a Philips 22GF110 suitcase record player, and i want to modify it's internals as to get better sound out of it. (Replacing pretty much all electra if needed)
How would i go about and do this?


Some more info on this record player:

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/philips_playby_22gf11001l.html#b

EDIT:

i realised i once soldered a groundwire inside the thing, but it turns out i soldered it to the wrong pieces, making it sound quite bad.
Just cut the wire, and it sounds lovely again.
Edited by CH23 - 11/19/13 at 12:43pm
post #1905 of 2460
Quote:
Originally Posted by CH23 View Post

I'm fairly sure that this is only semi related to this thread, but:

I have a Philips 22GF110 suitcase record player, and i want to modify it's internals as to get better sound out of it. (Replacing pretty much all electra if needed)
How would i go about and do this?

Some more info on this record player:

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/philips_playby_22gf11001l.html#b

EDIT:

i realised i once soldered a groundwire inside the thing, but it turns out i soldered it to the wrong pieces, making it sound quite bad.
Just cut the wire, and it sounds lovely again.

It is a museum piece - not something I would EVER consider to play my best vinyl with it. Simply follow the Service Manual/Schematics, repair if needed to the original spec, and play "expendable" records for demo, nostalgia, etc, reasons. 

 

A serious portable TT ( for scouting the records at record meets/swaps/garage sales/etc is Sony Flamingo http://www.ps-f5.com/ Pricey little bugger for sure - but can pay for itself if the seller was "cunning" enough to vacuum clean a very rare record mistracked to death, put it into fresh Nagaoka inner sleeve, put everything into a fancy outer sleeve - and tried to make a quick buck by labeling it as Mint or Very Good + for vinyl. Armed with Flamingo - such lowlifes will have no chances against you...

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