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post #1711 of 2591
Hey guys, I recently made a return to vinyl (on a budget) It's been 25 years since I sold my Technics turntable. I've spent last 20 years as a recording engineer/producer. I was fortunate enough to learn my craft in a time before ProTools and computers took over. There's nothing like the sound of 2" analog tape running at 30 inches per second thru studio monitors into a room tuned by a professional acoustician. biggrin.gif Needless to say I am a fan of analog and excited to get back to vinyl. I recently came across and bought a Realistic LAB-2200 linear tracker. I bought a cheap Audio-Technica 311ep cartridge and a Cambridge Audio 540 preamp to get her going. I have to say that I am quite impressed so far. I have a little hum to chase down and then a cartridge upgrade. It's a P-mount. Anybody have a favorite?
post #1712 of 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

There is another very unlikely possibility - record support (mat ) on the table is poor enough for the record to oscillate like "hum" the second stylus is in the groove.  

Mine does that! I'll have to test that.
post #1713 of 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsis View Post

Hey guys, I recently made a return to vinyl (on a budget) It's been 25 years since I sold my Technics turntable. I've spent last 20 years as a recording engineer/producer. I was fortunate enough to learn my craft in a time before ProTools and computers took over. There's nothing like the sound of 2" analog tape running at 30 inches per second thru studio monitors into a room tuned by a professional acoustician. biggrin.gif Needless to say I am a fan of analog and excited to get back to vinyl. I recently came across and bought a Realistic LAB-2200 linear tracker. I bought a cheap Audio-Technica 311ep cartridge and a Cambridge Audio 540 preamp to get her going. I have to say that I am quite impressed so far. I have a little hum to chase down and then a cartridge upgrade. It's a P-mount. Anybody have a favorite?

 

Hi Brother In Arms  - and welcome to this thread. I've started with turntables and some day wish to have 2" 30 ips portable recorder for location recordings, you have gone in reverse. So we share lots of common ground.

 

Not familiar with Realistic LAB-2200, but it seems to be yet another Technics linear tracker in disguise. Is it belt or direct drive - I've found only  http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=82296&d=1205200147 stating it has "powerful brushless DC servo motor". If it is anything similar to Technics SL-L20, you've got there a mighty good sounding TT.

 

Regarding cart/styli - bluntly - how much? There is even Micro Line stylus for your present cart (approx $150 ) - otherwise please see my post  just few post back regarding Technics SL-7 and specially Sleeping Beauty. Lots of questions you might have answered there in advance.

post #1714 of 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

Hi Brother In Arms  - and welcome to this thread. I've started with turntables and some day wish to have 2" 30 ips portable recorder for location recordings, you have gone in reverse. So we share lots of common ground.

Not familiar with Realistic LAB-2200, but it seems to be yet another Technics linear tracker in disguise. Is it belt or direct drive - I've found only  http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=82296&d=1205200147 stating it has "powerful brushless DC servo motor". If it is anything similar to Technics SL-L20, you've got there a mighty good sounding TT.

Regarding cart/styli - bluntly - how much? There is even Micro Line stylus for your present cart (approx $150 ) - otherwise please see my post  just few post back regarding Technics SL-7 and specially Sleeping Beauty. Lots of questions you might have answered there in advance.

Thanks. I'll check the Sleeping Beauty post. If I find the consensus to be that it's worth it, I'm not opposed to spending $150. I just don't want to double the budget for marginal gain. I'm hoping to benefit from the experience of p-mount aficionados.The LAB-2200 is direct drive.
The http://www.p-mount.net/ site has some great info. The diagrams regarding stylus shape and contact area were enlightening. Having had an extensive professional background in audio, I have an above average understanding of all things audio with the exception of vinyl. I'm simply amazed by the physics of it all. The fact that a single needle can transfer two channels of information blows my mind. So now I'm on the quest for vinyl knowledge.
post #1715 of 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsis View Post


Thanks. I'll check the Sleeping Beauty post. If I find the consensus to be that it's worth it, I'm not opposed to spending $150. I just don't want to double the budget for marginal gain. I'm hoping to benefit from the experience of p-mount aficionados.The LAB-2200 is direct drive.
The http://www.p-mount.net/ site has some great info. The diagrams regarding stylus shape and contact area were enlightening. Having had an extensive professional background in audio, I have an above average understanding of all things audio with the exception of vinyl. I'm simply amazed by the physics of it all. The fact that a single needle can transfer two channels of information blows my mind. So now I'm on the quest for vinyl knowledge.

 

No problem, you welcome. 

 

There is an intermediate stylus foe your cart. I do not recall whether it is original AT or Jico, but it does sport Shibata stylus shape that is still vast improvement on what you have now and is less critical of alignment - a plus with TT that most likely does not allow for vertical tracking angle ( VTA ) adjustment and could perform better on LAB 2000 than Micro Line. It is also cheaper, approx $80.

 

Correction - a single needle is ( kind of, depending how touchy is one on the subject ) capable of reproducing 4 channel sound.

post #1716 of 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post


Correction - a single needle is ( kind of, depending how touchy is one on the subject ) capable of reproducing 4 channel sound.

Ahh yes the short lived era of quadraphonic. Like Hendrix, ahead of its time. I have in my possession a quad Pioneer TT (the model number escapes me at the moment). It was maliciously destroyed by my brother in-laws ex evil_smiley.gif the tone arm has been ripped off. I haven't checked the motor yet. My father in-law bought it new while stationed in Korea so I hope to at least salvage the plinth and cover for sentimental value. Maybe retro in some innards.


**edit: It's a Pioneer PL-55DX


Edited by Arsis - 10/3/13 at 7:51pm
post #1717 of 2591

Turntable setup question: how do you guys like to isolate your turntables?

 

Have a nice shiny Rega RP1 with the peformance upgrade, and it -can- sound fantastic.  But the place I'm in has floorboards and it is ridiculously to have it vibrate, meaning it doesn't sound fantastic as much as I'd like...

post #1718 of 2591

The best TT isolation, short of air support like in Scanning Electron Microscopes (Rockport Sirius TT uses variation on the theme ) is hanging the TT from the ceiling on fishing thread. Each corner of the TT ( or some board/slab TT is resting on ) is supported by a fishing thread. The suspension has lateral resonant frequency defined by the lenght of the thread(s) only - it is a physical pendulum. In vertical sense it is defined by compliance of the threads and total supported mass. Both can be made very low, best is to use entire ceiling height with TT hanging in the air just above the floor.

In order to make the whole contraption more stable and user friendly, it is advisable to make "footprint" on the ceiling larger than that of TT as much as reasonable - it damps/prevents movement of the TT in rotational sense. It is possible to perfectly level the TT by using counter rotating cable tensioners from hardware store.

 

Needless to say, wall mounts for the 4 hooks from which thread is lined should be done really solid, rated far above the weight suspended. Just in case, it is prudent to have TT hanging slightly more above the floor - to allow for say an inch hard styrofoam or similar to cushion the fall of the TT if for any reason thread(s) fail.

 

I have never seen it done in real life, it is in my hopefully not too distant future plan...

post #1719 of 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Errymoose View Post
 

Turntable setup question: how do you guys like to isolate your turntables?

 

Have a nice shiny Rega RP1 with the peformance upgrade, and it -can- sound fantastic.  But the place I'm in has floorboards and it is ridiculously to have it vibrate, meaning it doesn't sound fantastic as much as I'd like...

 

And when you listen, stand and hold one leg up while combing your hair.:D

 

Not everyone can do the following which is, get a shelf that can be bolted to the wall, preferably to the studs and sit the TT on that.  I use a Target shelf from the '80s.  I believe there are several brands out there.

 

AppleMark

post #1720 of 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbophead View Post
 

 

And when you listen, stand and hold one leg up while combing your hair.:D

 

 

 

Whaaat? No skipping/jump rope while supporting the rare vase from the Ming dinasty, combing the hair that does not get in touch with the vase nonetheless.... You must ve slipping, man...:dt880smile:!

 

Kidding aside, I did post the thread hanged TT for a reason; it is the second best possibility after air support and costs relatively extremely little. Proble- matic is space and its all time low WAF factor. There are good supports commercially available that take little extra space - but they do burn a sizeable hole in the pocket and need to be precisely matched to the mass supported in order to have full potential realized. They can not meet or exceed thread method. Whether or not thread method is acceptable - must be indivudual decision.

post #1721 of 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Errymoose View Post
 

Turntable setup question: how do you guys like to isolate your turntables?

 

Have a nice shiny Rega RP1 with the peformance upgrade, and it -can- sound fantastic.  But the place I'm in has floorboards and it is ridiculously to have it vibrate, meaning it doesn't sound fantastic as much as I'd like...

 

I have my TT on a wooden shelf inside a cabinet.  The cabinet is set on carpet and leveled.  The shelf is set at mid level and balanced by pins that are set out from the main cabinet. It is isolated from all my other components, (pre phono and amp)

 

I would suggest for simplicity that you need a stand or cabinet set on a large carpet to isolate vibration off the wooden floors.  The stand or cabinet needs to be sturdy and heavy.  

 

I don't use any isolating feet but that might be an option for you.

post #1722 of 2591

As long as none of you visiting TT consultants dilly dally with my Ming Dynasty Gaiwan while brainstorming a solution :rolleyes:for me. 

post #1723 of 2591

An old slate tile I salvaged from my parents place underneath it (on top of my stereo rack) seems to have made it a lot better...

post #1724 of 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post
 

The best TT isolation, short of air support like in Scanning Electron Microscopes (Rockport Sirius TT uses variation on the theme ) is hanging the TT from the ceiling on fishing thread. Each corner of the TT ( or some board/slab TT is resting on ) is supported by a fishing thread. The suspension has lateral resonant frequency defined by the lenght of the thread(s) only - it is a physical pendulum. In vertical sense it is defined by compliance of the threads and total supported mass. Both can be made very low, best is to use entire ceiling height with TT hanging in the air just above the floor.

In order to make the whole contraption more stable and user friendly, it is advisable to make "footprint" on the ceiling larger than that of TT as much as reasonable - it damps/prevents movement of the TT in rotational sense. It is possible to perfectly level the TT by using counter rotating cable tensioners from hardware store.

 

Needless to say, wall mounts for the 4 hooks from which thread is lined should be done really solid, rated far above the weight suspended. Just in case, it is prudent to have TT hanging slightly more above the floor - to allow for say an inch hard styrofoam or similar to cushion the fall of the TT if for any reason thread(s) fail.

 

I have never seen it done in real life, it is in my hopefully not too distant future plan...

 

I read about this somewhere in the speakers section. One fellow has a musician friend, and his speakers are suspended from the ceiling with piano wires, and they're one of the best setups he has ever heard. Maybe not in the speakers section, but definitely somewhere here in head-fi.

post #1725 of 2591
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Errymoose View Post

Turntable setup question: how do you guys like to isolate your turntables?

Have a nice shiny Rega RP1 with the peformance upgrade, and it -can- sound fantastic.  But the place I'm in has floorboards and it is ridiculously to have it vibrate, meaning it doesn't sound fantastic as much as I'd like...

I use a Ginkgo Audio Cloud 9 isolation platform, and I will tell you that thing works very well. Great design - floats the TT on racquetballs between two huge non-resonant plexiglass chunks. Remarkably effective.
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