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post #1591 of 2630

Hello, I was wondering how much a diamond stylus could potentially cost.

 

EDIT: I would want a diamond stylus as it is the hardest material known to man so it shouldn't wear out as fast as styli made of other materials but another thing I would like to know that I forgot to include in my original post is: would a diamond stylus be gentle to my records and not damage them?


Edited by Double-A - 9/3/13 at 12:15pm
post #1592 of 2630
Thread Starter 
There are diamond stylus cartridges between $30 and $10,000. Can you be more specific about what you are looking for?
post #1593 of 2630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

There are diamond stylus cartridges between $30 and $10,000. Can you be more specific about what you are looking for?


Thank you for your swift response . . . technically I am not currently looking for anything yet as I am trying to save my money for some college education. I just wanted to know these things for when I am able to spare some money. Thank you for your time.


Edited by Double-A - 9/9/13 at 2:22pm
post #1594 of 2630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-A View Post


Thank you for your swift response . . . technically I am not currently looking for anything yet as I am trying to save my money for some college education . . . I just wanted to know these things for when I am able to spare some money. Thank you for your time.

Diamond stylus is probably the most expensive material known. If you want the best, it takes natural and not human made diamond, it has to be grain oriented if it is to wear slowest/last longest - which means that there will be more diamond wasted in cutting/grinding process than if cut/grind to have best volumetric yield. The more the stylus tip approaches that of the cutting stylus, the more trouble there is in making that shape. The smaller the actual stone is, the harder to make it made right. And/or to mount it properly on the cantilever.

 

Diamond is not exactly cheapest material known - yet all of the above can FAR outstrip the cost of the raw material. In best styli ( the physically smallest and of the most advanced stylus tip profiles made to the tightest tolerances ) it is next to invisible in the final cost. 

 

Want proof ? Take a good microscope, compare side to side Van den Hul stylus tip profiles from any other manufacturer, Van den Hul included, and that from Audio Note IO cartridge. It is a VdH stylus made in Japan ( most likely but not positively confirmed by Namiki ) - and it looks in real life just as good as others do on paper or "photoshoped" images.

 

Its only disadvantage - PRICE !

 

Shure once did give a rough estimate how much a pound ( or kilogram, can not remember ) of finished diamond styli costs. It was a mind boggling figure, above what mere mortals can ever hope to earn in a lifetime. Given the small weight per stylus, that amount would make MANY cartridges and last a really long time for the manufacturer to use up, 

 

I do not want to disclose the actual cost per single stylus cartridge manufacturer has to pay to the stylus manufacturer. It is one of the most closely guarded and generally kept in confidence information. But you can "guesstimate" it from the costs of the retippers - a really good diamond stylus stone alone can cost more than many complete cartridges.

post #1595 of 2630

As far as I know damage to your records when only talking about the stylus would be mainly a function of the diamond profile.  Obviously assuming a perfectly set up cartridge/table.

 

I have spherical, elliptical and line-contact/micro-ridge carts of varying quality and each has its use for recording, listening, mixing or even scratching.  I don't know if there is an inherent longevity that comes with any specific style of diamond cut.  It would depend on how it was being implemented and used.

 

Hope that helps,

Hi-Five

post #1596 of 2630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-Five View Post

As far as I know damage to your records when only talking about the stylus would be mainly a function of the diamond profile.  Obviously assuming a perfectly set up cartridge/table.

 

I have spherical, elliptical and line-contact/micro-ridge carts of varying quality and each has its use for recording, listening, mixing or even scratching.  I don't know if there is an inherent longevity that comes with any specific style of diamond cut.  It would depend on how it was being implemented and used.

 

Hope that helps,

Hi-Five

There is longevity involved in stylus cut. One factor is the material itself ( from powder remaining during diamond grinding compressed back into stylus shape to grain oriented natural diamond ),

the other tip geometry itself. Micro Ridge is the toughest to wear out, as it for all practical purposes retains its shape with wear, unlike any other tip geometry. Various estimates regarding how many hours of acceptable reproduction is available from Micro XY ( Line, Ridge, Reach, SAS , perhaps other commercial names ) have been given, from Audio Technica's 1000 hours before there is a loss at 20 kHz of - 1 dB in right and -2 dB in left channel at the inner grooves, or Jico's 500 hours before certain distortion levels are exceeded. Both are much better than any other shape used for any comparable amount of time - specially anything approaching 1000 hours mark.

 

I concur there are uses for all above mentioned styli - records we have have been made throughout the time  on many different machines and it is impossible to get the best from all of them with a single stylus shape.

post #1597 of 2630

@Skylab: I'm surprised that there are diamond styli that cost only $30 . . . are those styli that are not made completely out of diamond but rather diamond tipped like Ion claims they do with their stylus line-up? If so, please note that I would only be interested in styli that are crafted from diamond not merely diamond tipped.

 

@analogsurviver: thank you for going into such detail about which types of diamond styli I should look for.


Edited by Double-A - 9/9/13 at 2:21pm
post #1598 of 2630
Thread Starter 
You are asking about just the stylus, yes? The tiny diamond stylus is at the tip of the cantilever which is never diamond.
post #1599 of 2630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

You are asking about just the stylus, yes? The tiny diamond stylus is at the tip of the cantilever which is never diamond.

Yes, I am just talking about the stylus.

post #1600 of 2630
Thread Starter 
Well, even the "lowly" Red Ed cartridge has a Elliptical .007X.003 diamond stylus. It's $27.95.
post #1601 of 2630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

Well, even the "lowly" Red Ed cartridge has a Elliptical .007X.003 diamond stylus. It's $27.95.

I see. I guess it actually makes sense that you can find styli made of diamond for so little money as styli are so tiny.

post #1602 of 2630
Thread Starter 
That's it exactly. They are TINY. And they are industrial diamonds, not jewelry diamonds anyway.
post #1603 of 2630

Shure M97xe

 

Shure V15VxMR

 

Shure M97xe

 

Shure V15VxMR

 

Shure M97xe

 

Shure V15VxMR

 

Shure M97xe

 

Shure V15VxMR

 

The magnification is the same for all respective photos.

 

V15VxMR  was approx 3 - 4 times the price of M97xe when new and still available. Current NOS - see ebay ...

 

Although most diamonds used for styli are industrial, premium grade is natural or jewelry grade.

 

Red Ed ( actually a Japanese made cart, usually branded Sanyo MG 27 ) stylus should be larger than Shure M97e - with styli, less IS most definitely more, and when you add better stylus tip profile, better tolerance, smaller diamond, natural instead of industrial - costs start spillaring.

 

In styli, each and every rafinement is paid with solid cold hard ca$h.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-A View Post
 

I see. I guess it actually makes sense that you can find styli made of diamond for so little money as styli are so tiny.

post #1604 of 2630

I have had a B&O 4002 since the 70's. Rebuilt once at S*****smith. I am thinking of adding a second one as a backup. There is also a N.O.S. B&O  9000

available. My question is, are the innards on a rebuilt 4002 better than a brand new 9000?

post #1605 of 2630

I had to type Soundsmith to see why it didn't show up.

 

****tysmith?

 

What did you type?

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