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post #1501 of 2538

And what I question, because I own the very first iteration of the JMW arm and the counterweight is round and centered and it has the azimuth ring, is why change?  It is odd to me to have both on the same arm if both adjustments can be accomplished with just one weight.  I always wondered what they had discovered and why they decided to make that change.

 

 

AppleMark

 

Edited a little...


Edited by Eee Pee - 7/11/13 at 4:14pm
post #1502 of 2538

I just discovered http://www.milleraudioresearch.com/avtech/index.html Here you can finally find some objective measurements of the current and selected vintage  gear. It is free, but you will have to register.

 

There is a quite a good representation of analog. I have yet to go trough it all, but what I have seen so far is very well made and above all, all the gear is tested using the same methods and therefore results are comparable.

 

You will find the measurements quite illuminating. The deviations in frequency response, channel separation, percentages of distortion, speed accuracy, wow, flutter, rumble - may well be shocking to some, if not most. Remember, if the device does not perform as it should have , it CAN NOT sound correct - no matter how you might like it subjectively. You have to bear in mind most manufacturers can not afford the measuring equipment  ( or equivalent) used for these measurements - merely ASSUMING that a certain technical solution that should in theory bring better result does not necessarily deliver in practice. Just check the results for the Kuzma Stabi S  turntable with a normal single platter and additional double platter, to see what I mean. Yet it is not NEARLY as bad result as some others...

 

I will try to make at least the most basic measurements on PC so that I can present some graphs etc. Problem is my very limited knowledge in digital, but I know that covering the real frequency response of analog using digital measuring equipment is co$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$tly. It requires essentially flat frequency response to 50 kHz and response still going relatively strongly ( WITHOUT brick filter at any frequency ) past 100 kHz. DSD recording can give useable results, yet I am not at present aware of any measuring software using DSD to be used on PCs or Macs. So my first steps will be limited to 20 kHz, in line with standard PCM 44,1kHz/16 bit resolution available.

 

Please note that I am not going to answer much, if any, questions that might arise from the tests published, such as relation(s) among various measurements and perceiced subjective SQ. It is too complicated and interrelated to be given in a forum - besides that I am pretty certain what is a GO and what is a definitive NO GO, I would like to have solid scientific evidence before sticking my head out. 

 

You have to remember that phono cartridges are extremely difficult to make and even more so to measure properly. Sample to sample variation unfortunately can play a huge role - while I will do EVERYTHING possible to extract the most out of any TT/arm/cart combo, reviewers do not have so much time and by default have to limit themselves to the practices that are reasonably to be expected from general public. In analog turntables, that is azimuth - just see how much does channel separation measurements vary among cartridges. Many of those would benefit greatly from correct azimuth - you simply have to realize that 100% correctly aligned for everything cartridges are rare and therefore very expensive. If you think you have the right to get by default such a cartridge - think of the dimensions involved - and think again if you still feel you should be the lucky guy or gal that always get top 0.00.....1 % of  production. Even 5 figure price tag is no guarantee for that. Back in the day, for the celebration of now late Mr. Sugano's 80th birthday, there was a 80th Anniversary Limited Edition of 80 pcs of really outstanding carts that got collected in God only knows how many years of production - PRICE TO BE SET BY THE DEALER, no MSRP whatsoever ! Koetsus are precise devices in ordinary life, I surely would love to hear one of those 80 hors categorie ones - but by now, I guess any real music listener must have worn the stylus on his/hers sample.

 

Turntables are comparatively large devices and therefore sample to sample variations do not play so big role as in cartridges. Here, performance is easier compared and if so inclined, you can read the objective tests of the units you own or are familiar with - and start building your own "translation from objective to subjective performance" vocabulary. Might save quite a big chunk of money - which can be used for getting more music on vinyl .


Edited by analogsurviver - 7/12/13 at 10:47am
post #1503 of 2538

Prepare to be horrified. This is HiFi News Analogue Test Record.

 

 

Warped in shipping. Can I get a refund for this?

post #1504 of 2538

My Q-Up arrived yesterday so I got a chance to set it up today.  It was super easy, it is pretty hidden behind the platter so it doesn't ruin the look of my vintage table, and it is easily removable to get things back to stock (no modifications required, it is secured using double-sided tape).

 

You can set it up to be VERY sensitive so I don't think there is any worry about any sideways forces going into the stylus against the groove.

 

The set up for sensitivity and lift speed/power was pretty straight forward.  You just adjust some sliders on the side to increase or decrease spring strength.  Getting the position correct only took a few minutes.  It comes with an assortment of spacers so finding the right height should not be an issue.    

 

It functions just as you'd expect and I no longer have to "dash" for the table when I know I'm close to the end of the last track.

 

It's a little pricey for a plastic device but I doubt they are selling a ton of these things, it functions perfectly, and feels like it will last forever.

 

 


Edited by shipsupt - 7/12/13 at 12:13pm
post #1505 of 2538
Quote:
Originally Posted by shipsupt View Post

My Q-Up arrived yesterday so I got a chance to set it up today.  It was super easy, it is pretty hidden behind the platter so it doesn't ruin the look of my vintage table, and it is easily removable to get things back to stock (no modifications required, it is secured using double-sided tape).

 

You can set it up to be VERY sensitive so I don't think there is any worry about any sideways forces going into the stylus against the groove.

 

The set up for sensitivity and lift speed/power was pretty straight forward.  You just adjust some sliders on the side to increase or decrease spring strength.  Getting the position correct only took a few minutes.  It comes with an assortment of spacers so finding the right height should not be an issue.    

 

It functions just as you'd expect and I no longer have to "dash" for the table when I know I'm close to the end of the last track.

 

It's a little pricey for a plastic device but I doubt they are selling a ton of these things, it functions perfectly, and feels like it will last forever.

 

 

Thank you for the nice review !

 

Is this Hydraulic or Electronic ? 

post #1506 of 2538

Neither, to my surprise!   I was expecting hydraulic.  

 

It's all springs and cams.  The best thing I could compare the trigger mechanism to is simple gun trigger.  Push it down against the spring tension and it locks in place.  When you push the arm down it loads a spring that will eventually provide the energy for the lift.  The arm hits the trigger and releases the spring energy to make the lift.

 

Getting the lift energy right is the key to smooth operation.  At first it was set to maximum and it sent my arm flying up so that it bounced back down on the Q-up arm.  A little alarming to say the least.  Luckily it lands right on the Q arm so the stylus didn't come crashing down.  

 

You get it set to it's just a little stronger than the downward force of the arm and it lifts it nice and smoothly.  I went just a touch past this because I felt like a "quick" lift was preferable to get the stylus out of the groove quickly upon being triggered.  

 

As I said, the trigger can be set for a very, very light touch... let's call it a hair trigger.  

 

It's one of those solutions that's quite remarkable in it's simplicity.

post #1507 of 2538
Quote:
Originally Posted by shipsupt View Post

Neither, to my surprise!   I was expecting hydraulic.  

 

It's all springs and cams.  The best thing I could compare the trigger mechanism to is simple gun trigger.  Push it down against the spring tension and it locks in place.  When you push the arm down it loads a spring that will eventually provide the energy for the lift.  The arm hits the trigger and releases the spring energy to make the lift.

 

Getting the lift energy right is the key to smooth operation.  At first it was set to maximum and it sent my arm flying up so that it bounced back down on the Q-up arm.  A little alarming to say the least.  Luckily it lands right on the Q arm so the stylus didn't come crashing down.  

 

You get it set to it's just a little stronger than the downward force of the arm and it lifts it nice and smoothly.  I went just a touch past this because I felt like a "quick" lift was preferable to get the stylus out of the groove quickly upon being triggered.  

 

As I said, the trigger can be set for a very, very light touch... let's call it a hair trigger.  

 

It's one of those solutions that's quite remarkable in it's simplicity.

Serve me right for skimping a word or two - I meant if this is Transcriptors Hydraulic or Electronic turntable in the picture ( and SME 3009 S2 (Improved(detacheable))?

 

But it turned nicely in extended descrition of Q-up. If anyone does not have such end of side lifting device for pivoted arms and is prone to dozing off - it is a must, specially if you are running a vintage stylus/cart that is (next to) impossible to replace. In that view, it is like in those credit card commercials - priceless.

post #1508 of 2538

It's a hydraulic.  I'll grab a shot during the day when I have better lighting.  bigsmile_face.gif

post #1509 of 2538

@ shipsupt

 

Very nice!

post #1510 of 2538

I'm in the market for a phono pre-amp for my Rega RP3 with the Elys 2 cartridge. I'm currently running the TT through my AV receiver with a built in pre-amp, but as I'm looking at a headphone amp and a new pair of headphones, I'll be needing a decent pre-amp. Any recommendations? My budget is the $200 range. (Then again I said the same thing about the turntable and ended up with the RP3 instead of the RP1.)


Edited by Kent Nova - 7/19/13 at 11:26pm
post #1511 of 2538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent Nova View Post

I'm in the market for a phono pre-amp for my Rega RP3 with the Elys 2 cartridge. I'm currently running the TT through my AV receiver with a built in pre-amp, but as I'm looking at a headphone amp and a new pair of headphones, I'll be needing a decent pre-amp. Any recommendations? My budget is the $200 range. (Then again I said the same thing about the turntable and ended up with the RP3 instead of the RP1.)

My RP6/2M Black is connected to a NAD PP2i whch does a really respectable job.  I listen to cans quite a bit, too.  Been thinking about a Bellari VP130 to further go down the tube hole.  It happens to also have a headphone amp in it.  Tempting, although I have plenty of headphone amps already.

post #1512 of 2538
Thread Starter 
If you decide to stretch your budget just a little, the Pro-Ject Tube Box is quite nice for the money in my experience. Then again, so is the $70 TC-760 from phonopreamps.com
Edited by Skylab - 7/21/13 at 10:09am
post #1513 of 2538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

If ou decide to stretch your budget just a little, the Pro-Ject Tube Box is quite nice for the money in my experience. Then again, so it the $70 TC-760 from phonopreamps.com

I second that. Heard Pro-Ject Tube Box many times and it never did sound bad at all. I recently added TC750 to my system and if TC760 does not compromise MM performance too much in order to add MC capability, at that price it is a steal. Diminutive size, nice for in the field phono cliincs ( one does not have to haul full size preamp or receiver to a friend who would like to hear an old TT and decide to get it ressurected or not, but has no phono input), but nothing to brag about cosmetically.

 

IMO, if funds are fixed, better to get higher quality cart/stylus than phono preamp. Those TCs are nice enough to get one started, TC750 is a very quiet unit ( wall wart PSU , not prone to hum pickup from the in built reansformer ) and if you get hum or noise, it is your table/arm/wiring, not the preamp. TC750s weak spot is bass response below ? Hz ( I should measure it, I know ... ), but other than that it is good enough. Whatever RIAA deviation it has, it is likely to be far below that of the cartridges likely to be used with it.

post #1514 of 2538

Another vote for the Bellari VP130 but budget an additional $30 just in case it has a hum, the power supply is a POS but can easily be replaced at the Rat Shack.  The VP130 was my first tube component and has since led me down a very expensive road so be warned.  evil_smiley.gif  I have no solid state gear left in my 2Ch system.

post #1515 of 2538
Is it worth getting a vpi classic3 over the classic 2. Is the peripheral ring and center weight worth the extra $2500?
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