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post #16 of 2750
Well here we go. Thank you again Skylab for this thread. I did search and find much information on vinylengine but was wondering if we had such thread here and we do now.

I'm new to vinyl. I'm soon to be 45 (Maybe it's 46 rolleyes.gif) anyway my last exposure to a turntable was like 32 years ago at my parents house listening to my mom's Elvis records.

I recently bought the following setup: a Pro-ject RPM 1.3 TT with an Ortofon 2M Red cartridge (MM) and a Cambridge Audio Azur 551P Phono preamp. I nice entry level setup I think. I'm using the cable that came with the table with the ground cable needed between the TT & Phono. Initially I was using another longer cable but realize that it was not grounded properly and made a hum noise.

I'm connecting the phono out to my MAD tube amplifier and do my listening with my Beyer T1.

(Sorry for the Long intro)

Here are my questions / Concerns. I confirmed with the previous owner that the table was setup from the manufacture with the Ortofon cartridge and that he didn't change any of those settings.

I have verified the VTF (thanks to the link that Skylab posted above I can use proper terms) with the small plastic lever that ace with the TT and it was correct at 17.5mn as per the manual. I also confirmed that the HTF was set to the proper location on the Anti-skating lever weight.

Now after listening to some old albums and some new audiophile grade (180g) albums it's seems that with the new ticker vinyl the music sound a bit strange. Not as refine with an hollow sound. The voice specialy.


Maybe my expectation is higher with the new albums. They are albums that I know very well (OK Computer / Radiohead & Wish You Were Here / Pink Floyd) and they do not have the static noise of the older vinyl.

1) could it be the VTA?
2) could it be the VTF?
3) could it be the cartridge being to new (40 hours)?
4) Also can someone tell me if the Cambridge is a good match for the Ortofon?

Thanks
Edited by Twinster - 6/5/12 at 6:12pm
post #17 of 2750
Thread Starter 
So the older albums sound good, but the newer ones don't?
post #18 of 2750
Twinster, do you have a local dealer who could come over and set up your TT or a place you can bring it? There is nothing that replaces a properly set up TT. You could also play it through one of their phono pres to eliminate any issues with that.
post #19 of 2750

180 gr = thicker, which means VTA change.

post #20 of 2750
Thread Starter 
Yeah, I was thinking that might be the issue, that the VTA was too low, and the thicker records sent it over the top.
post #21 of 2750
@dminches, good recommendation. I do have some local dealer I can bring the table and test with other preamp. I'm going to do some more listening (right after this message) to make sure I'm listening and earing properly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dminches View Post

Twinster, do you have a local dealer who could come over and set up your TT or a place you can bring it? There is nothing that replaces a properly set up TT. You could also play it through one of their phono pres to eliminate any issues with that.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eee Pee View Post

180 gr = thicker, which means VTA change.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

Yeah, I was thinking that might be the issue, that the VTA was too low, and the thicker records sent it over the top.
 

I'll try to see if I can see if the tonerarm is perpendicular to the table (my understanding of the VTA adjustment) and see if I can adjust it. (I know the arm on my TT allow it).

 

Thank you for all the reply. I have to share with you that I never appreciate my listening session as much since I received the TT. There is something in the preparation and not having a remote  (or iPad) to play forward or back. I'm just enjoying all the music an album can offer and that is what I was craving for a long time. But I have to stop going to the trade store every day cause I'm going to run out of space biggrin.gif. Cheer!

post #22 of 2750

Just a quick update with my setup. I did more listening yesterday and verified the VTA on my table while using the 180g thicker vinyl and it seems ok. I also received my disc clamp.

 

I listened to the same album from Radiohead and notice that for a 180g it was a bit warp. Not completely flat on the table. The clamp seems to help flatting it out.

 

The result was that the music didn't sound hollowed but I do find the mid's to be a bit laid back so the vocal don't have the presence that I'm use too. 

 

Could this be the phono preamp? (Cambridge 551P) anyone with Cambridge experience?

 

Other then that the experience was still very good and enjoying every minute with it.

 

Thank you for help!

post #23 of 2750
Thread Starter 

When you say the mids lack the presence that you are used to, are you referring to what you are used to with another turntable, or what you are used to with digital audio?

post #24 of 2750
My reference is from my digital system only. I do not have access to another TT. I use a Meier Concerto with a DACmini while listening digital and the signature is very balanced.

I find that with my analog setup event using my tube MAD Ear+ amplifier that the mid's are sounding further away in the presentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

When you say the mids lack the presence that you are used to, are you referring to what you are used to with another turntable, or what you are used to with digital audio?
post #25 of 2750
Thread Starter 

That may well be just the difference between the presentation between vinyl and digital.  Many people (me included) find the midrange of digital often to be too bright/forward/aggressive.  So you may well find vinyl's midrange presentation to be quite different.  Ultimately you have to decide whether you like it or not.

post #26 of 2750
Quote:
Originally Posted by SemiAudiophile View Post

I've been reading that instead of a separate step up transformer, you could use a headamp to raise the output level of the signal. Is this true?

 

From my DL-103r manual, it is: "The output voltage is .25mV. Use of a step-up transformer for an MC-type cartridge, or a head amplifier is highly recommended."

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by grokit View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by grokit View Post

I was thinking of using a tube stage but I never tried it as the stated sensitivity seemed way too low. Maybe I should give it a shot...

 

Yeah it was a no-go.

 

It not only didn't bump up the sound level, but it added noise. The ground wire can be problematic as well. I grounded the TT to the tube stage, then ran a jumper to my phono stage's ground terminal, that's all I could think of. I would think that using a "head amplifier" would present a similar challenge re the ground wire.

post #27 of 2750
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by grokit View Post

 

From my DL-103r manual, it is: "The output voltage is .25mV. Use of a step-up transformer for an MC-type cartridge, or a head amplifier is highly recommended."

 

 

 

But the meaning of "headamp" back then was VERY different...pretty sure SA meant "Headphone Amp", and that is NOT what your Denon manual was referring to wink.gif

post #28 of 2750
Quote:
Originally Posted by grokit View Post

 

From my DL-103r manual, it is: "The output voltage is .25mV. Use of a step-up transformer for an MC-type cartridge, or a head amplifier is highly recommended."

 

How do u like the DL-103r? I kinda jumped the gun with the Dynavector. But I've always been intrigued with what the original DL-103 sounds like with all the praise it gets.

post #29 of 2750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

But the meaning of "headamp" back then was VERY different...pretty sure SA meant "Headphone Amp", and that is NOT what your Denon manual was referring to wink.gif

 

What did headamp mean back then? I'm pretty sure they didn't mean one of these:

 

http://www.xmusic.ie/Heads-p-1-c-451.html

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SemiAudiophile View Post

How do u like the DL-103r? I kinda jumped the gun with the Dynavector. But I've always been intrigued with what the original DL-103 sounds like with all the praise it gets.

 

I definitely found it an upgrade to my OM-10 with the various stylus styli (20, LP Gear40) that I tried. Still waiting for a functional step-up transformer though and will report back.

 

IME:  DL-103r > 2M Red > OM Series

 

Btw, what is the plural for stylus? Styli?

 

edit: stylus (plural: styli or styluses)


Edited by grokit - 6/7/12 at 1:12pm
post #30 of 2750
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by grokit View Post

 

What did headamp mean back then? I'm pretty sure they didn't mean one of these:

 

http://www.xmusic.ie/Heads-p-1-c-451.html

 

 

It meant an AMP to be used to add gain for a phono cartridge, designed to be plugged into a phono stage, since all receivers/integrated amps/preamps had phono stages back then.

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