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post #196 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoengJyh View Post

 

 

 

Then i better not to waste the 2k... buy 2 pair of UE RM better.

Yes, the entire "tune it just for you" thing is entirely overblown.

 

It's a very nice $1000 5-driver custom that you get to pay an extra $1000 dollars on top of that for a gimmick of limited value.

post #197 of 213

alright, without tuning, just how is this PRM fare to the other CIEM contenders?

post #198 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by etherlite View Post

alright, without tuning, just how is this PRM fare to the other CIEM contenders?


Let's put it this way: Even the UE rep I talked to conceded it was technically better than the IERM.

post #199 of 213
But is it actually worth the extra 1000$?
post #200 of 213
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunlun View Post

Yes, the entire "tune it just for you" thing is entirely overblown.

 

It's a very nice $1000 5-driver custom that you get to pay an extra $1000 dollars on top of that for a gimmick of limited value.

 

I couldn't disagree more.

 

I've tuned mine to help compensate for differences between my left and right ears (as mentioned in the post that starts this thread), and the result was outstanding. The Personal Reference Monitor has been my personal reference (no pun intended) IEM since it arrived--my current first-string quarterback in a stable of world-class custom in-ears.

 

Kunlun, I know you have a penchant for wanting to thoroughly skewer what you see as rip-offs and hype, but, in my opinion, your aim is way off on this one.

 

Tune it as a matched pair, and you'll end up with nothing less than a top-tier custom IEM. If you've got any differences between your ears, if you're feeling a bit bold during the tuning process--bold enough to tune with those differences in mind--then the outcome can be extraordinary.

 

If yours didn't turn out well, you should see what UE can do to help you.

post #201 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by jude View Post

 

I couldn't disagree more.

 

I've tuned mine to help compensate for differences between my left and right ears (as mentioned in the post that starts this thread), and the result was outstanding. The Personal Reference Monitor has been my personal reference (no pun intended) IEM since it arrived--my current first-string quarterback in a stable of world-class custom in-ears.

 

Kunlun, I know you have a penchant for wanting to thoroughly skewer what you see as rip-offs and hype, but, in my opinion, your aim is way off on this one.

 

Tuned as a matched pair, and you'll end up with nothing less than a top-tier custom IEM. If you've got any differences between your ears, and you're feeling a bit bold during the tuning process--bold enough to tune with those differences in mind--then the outcome can be extraordinary.

 

If yours didn't turn out well, you should see what UE can do to help you.

 

Hi Jude! Great to hear from you!

 

I do recognize that for some people, including pro musicians and those with hearing issues, the PRM process of adjusting impedence curves can be useful. For the great majority of people, not so much.

 

And I have been quite vocal in saying how very nice the new 5-driver custom is. I agree it's certainly a top-tier custom and surpasses the IERM, both to my ears and the UE rep I spoke to.

 

 

 

Not to be repetitive, but I did play and test the tuning quite a bit, turning the knobs to extremes and then to smaller deviations from neutral and the effects tend to be relatively mild and quite different than an EQ.

 

I think people will be getting the wrong idea if they think the tuning is like an EQ, I'm sure we agree that it's not.

 

I think I can say that I think that the tuning process is completely not at all worth an extra $1000 without implying that UE is a bad company or something. I'm sure they're all great folks over there.

post #202 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunlun View Post

The dials go way over 100 on the tuning box for the UE PRM.

 

I won't say it's the first thing I did, but, okay, actually, the first thing I did was to take one of the dials to over 150 and compare it to 50.

 

THE CHANGE WAS MILD

 

Audible, but mild.

 

It sure as hell wasn't however many dB people are thinking it was. That is definitely not how the tuning box works.

 

Changing the tuning from 50-50-50 to a tuning of 55-50-45 or what have you is practically nothing.

 

The tuning system is being way, way overhyped in reviews like Steve Guttenberg's (no surprise). Use of EQ on a DAP is a larger effect than what is possible with the impedance changes for the UE PRM.

 

 

Also, I confirmed with a UE rep that each dial does not directly correspond to bass, mids and treble driver groups, but rather each has an effect on the overall impedence measures.

 

There is no change above 100, so setting it to 150 or 999 is the same as 100.  I plan on finding out the details, but I was told by some high up LUE (Logitech Ultimate Ears) people it changes the bass, mids, and treble, and my ears confirmed.  And I had two sessions with the box so far and used my other CIEMs for comparisons both times.  Using the bypass button to go between neutral and the knobs at max/min, I did think there were fairly significant changes, but not huge changes.  I was using my DX100 as a source.

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoengJyh View Post

 

 

 

Then i better not to waste the 2k... buy 2 pair of UE RM better.

 

I like the IERM, but would take the PRM over two IERMs any day!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jude View Post

 

I couldn't disagree more.

 

I've tuned mine to help compensate for differences between my left and right ears (as mentioned in the post that starts this thread), and the result was outstanding. The Personal Reference Monitor has been my personal reference (no pun intended) IEM since it arrived--my current first-string quarterback in a stable of world-class custom in-ears.

 

Kunlun, I know you have a penchant for wanting to thoroughly skewer what you see as rip-offs and hype, but, in my opinion, your aim is way off on this one.

 

Tune it as a matched pair, and you'll end up with nothing less than a top-tier custom IEM. If you've got any differences between your ears, if you're feeling a bit bold during the tuning process--bold enough to tune with those differences in mind--and the outcome can be extraordinary.

 

If yours didn't turn out well, you should see what UE can do to help you.

 

While I have yet to determine exactly where it falls, it is competitive with the best I have.  

 

Are the PRMs worth $2K?  I would go back to my standard answer about what CIEM is best for each person, and that is what fits their sound signature preferences and falls within their price range.  If someone can tune the sound to their preference and has the money, that is worth a lot in my book.  I PM with people from time to time that are not happy with their custom IEMs because they read one glowing review or a fast moving thread about a new product and got caught up in the hype, not realizing what they truly wanted.  Some are happy initially until the newness and jump in performance from other gear wears off, others are dissatisfied from the start.  The PRM avoids that with the tuning.  Tune to your preferences...you decide.  And, if you don't like your tuning, UE will work with you to get it right.  What is that worth?

post #203 of 213
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunlun View Post

...Not to be repetitive, but I did play and test the tuning quite a bit, turning the knobs to extremes and then to smaller deviations from neutral and the effects tend to be relatively mild and quite different than an EQ.

 

I think people will be getting the wrong idea if they think the tuning is like an EQ, I'm sure we agree that it's not...

 

Though the tuning box doesn't operate like a graphic equalizer or parametric equalizer, it does alter the tonal balance, so I think it could reasonably be said that audio equalization of a sort is obviously a component of the tuning process.

 

I don't think they're intending the Personal Reference Monitor for the general consumer market. I think they're intending the Personal Reference Monitor for the pro audio market, and/or consumers who could reasonably be called (or at the very least consider themselves) experienced listeners.

 

I admit that I found the the tuning session to be a unique and at times a somewhat intimidating process. I brought music. I brought a bucketload of test tones. I stayed a while. I tuned with a goal in mind, and I tuned until I was not only comfortable with what I was hearing from the tuning pieces, but really satisfied.

 

The custom in-ear monitors market is still very much a specialty market. Well, the Personal Reference Monitor is a specialty product within that specialty market. It's certainly not for everyone; but for those it is for, it can be uniquely marvelous.

post #204 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

 

There is no change above 100, so setting it to 150 or 999 is the same as 100.  I plan on finding out the details, but I was told by some high up LUE (Logitech Ultimate Ears) people it changes the bass, mids, and treble, and my ears confirmed.  And I had two sessions with the box so far and used my other CIEMs for comparisons both times.  Using the bypass button to go between neutral and the knobs at max/min, I did think there were fairly significant changes, but not huge changes.  I was using my DX100 as a source.

 

The part about going over 100 is interesting.

 

It's interesting that the UE guy I talked to was open about the three knobs (which obviously effect bass, mid and treble--I hope you didn't go to the top of LUE to ask that) do not have so simple an effect that turning the bass knob up simply directly effects only the bass. What the UE rep explained was that the knobs effect the overall curve (edit: the tonal balance, in Jude's elegant phrase), rather than being like an eq which bumps up one frequency without effecting the rest of the range. Does that make what I was trying to say more clear?


Edited by Kunlun - 9/27/12 at 6:18am
post #205 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by jude View Post

 

Though the tuning box doesn't operate like a graphic equalizer or parametric equalizer, it does alter the tonal balance, so I think it could reasonably be said that audio equalization of a sort is obviously a component of the tuning process.

 

I don't think they're intending the Personal Reference Monitor for the general consumer market. I think they're intending the Personal Reference Monitor for the pro audio market, and/or consumers who could reasonably be called (or at the very least consider themselves) experienced listeners.

 

I admit that I found the the tuning session to be a unique and at times a somewhat intimidating process. I brought music. I brought a bucketload of test tones. I stayed a while. I tuned with a goal in mind, and I tuned until I was not only comfortable with what I was hearing from the tuning pieces, but really satisfied.

 

The custom in-ear monitors market is still very much a specialty market. Well, the Personal Reference Monitor is a specialty product within that specialty market. It's certainly not for everyone; but for those it is for, it can be uniquely marvelous.

Yes, agreed.

post #206 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunlun View Post

The part about going over 100 is interesting.

 

It's interesting that the UE guy I talked to was open about the three knobs (which obviously effect bass, mid and treble--I hope you didn't go to the top of LUE to ask that) do not have so simple an effect that turning the bass knob up simply directly effects only the bass. What the UE rep explained was that the knobs effect the overall curve (edit: the tonal balance, in Jude's elegant phrase), rather than being like an eq which bumps up one frequency without effecting the rest of the range. Does what make what I was trying to say more clear?

 

Nope, that was just the person I happened to speak with, and I plan on asking many more questions to hopefully get more concrete answers.  As far as the changes, changing frequency response will change tonal qualities, especially the ratio between different frequency ranges.  I am not going to speculate as to what is going on at this time, but adjusting the mid knob did change the presentation location for example; more forward vs. more laid back.  The treble was brought to the front when it was the knob was decreased (increasing the amplitude).  There are only so many things that can change, right; what do you think is changing?

post #207 of 213

Just a quick update to the amount of adjustment possible...it is approximately +7 dB for each frequency knob and only affects that part of the spectrum.  I will have more info in my review...

post #208 of 213

^That doesn't seem <that> subtle...

Reply
post #209 of 213

Is Jude (the thread starter...) ever going to give us all the promised review on how he thinks the UE PRMs sound? Or have I missed it..?

post #210 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

Just a quick update to the amount of adjustment possible...it is approximately +7 dB for each frequency knob and only affects that part of the spectrum.  I will have more info in my review...

Wow 7db is quite substantial, I always thought it was very subtle.. Now this is interesting..
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