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Brief Odac impressions - Page 110

post #1636 of 1962

Here we go again, I am going to order other DAC and compare them. ODAC is great but not my type of dac, I am sure.

post #1637 of 1962

Who let the lemmings into this thread. Adydula, I am disappoint :)

post #1638 of 1962
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamilcarBarca View Post

 

You've reached the wrong conclusions. Since the ODAC is neutral, your other DACs must be adding non-existent textures and an unnatural sound through their particular brands of distortion. But if you find them pleasing, you should stick with them as neutral equipment isn't to your taste. Price has nothing do to with it.


Sorry, but are you paid for defending ODAC and/or O2 ?

post #1639 of 1962

He's playing a role here to create a balance with some other posts. An important role I might add, because the lack of objectivity most of the time turns any constructive discussion into a subjective mess. 

post #1640 of 1962
Would the bifrost be a large upgrade over the odac with lyr amp he500 phones
post #1641 of 1962
Quote:
Originally Posted by adydula View Post

"Considering it gets its power from USB??"

 

Here we go again....

 

It's an unfortunate fact of life, one that manufacturers rely on to peddle their underperforming, overpriced wares.

post #1642 of 1962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dano91 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by HamilcarBarca View Post

 

You've reached the wrong conclusions. Since the ODAC is neutral, your other DACs must be adding non-existent textures and an unnatural sound through their particular brands of distortion. But if you find them pleasing, you should stick with them as neutral equipment isn't to your taste. Price has nothing do to with it.


Sorry, but are you paid for defending ODAC and/or O2 ?

 

I was merely stating the facts. Your attempt at personal insult was unnecessary.

post #1643 of 1962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rem0o View Post

He's playing a role here to create a balance with some other posts. An important role I might add, because the lack of objectivity most of the time turns any constructive discussion into a subjective mess. 

 

It is a bit of a challenge to interpret the below quote as objective.  My preference for my other DACS is because they add non-existent textures and an unnatural sound through their particular brands of distortion? rolleyes.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HamilcarBarca View Post

 

Since the ODAC is neutral, your other DACs must be adding non-existent textures and an unnatural sound through their particular brands of distortion. 

post #1644 of 1962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi Rez View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rem0o View Post

He's playing a role here to create a balance with some other posts. An important role I might add, because the lack of objectivity most of the time turns any constructive discussion into a subjective mess. 

 

It is a bit of a challenge to interpret the below quote as objective.  My preference for my other DACS is because they add non-existent textures and an unnatural sound through their particular brands of distortion?

 

You originally claimed the ODAC was lacking in texture (which means the mixture of voices -- instruments and/or singers -- and the way they're combined in melody, harmony, and/or rhythm.) You next redefined neutral as meaning nothing more than a flat frequency response. Then, rather than a lack of texture, it was a lack of detail. Then, it was a lack of resolution. I was, as the poster to whom you're responding mentioned, merely trying to clarify the mess.

 

The ODAC isn't alone in being neutral: Far from it. However, if there's an audible difference between a neutral device (one that adds no audible distortion) and some other device, the other device is adding distortion. It's an inescapable conclusion.

 

Being neutral doesn't mean it's the most pleasing to any listener, yet another inescapable conclusion. Your preferences, and mine, don't enter into the discussion of neutrality. It's simply what we like to hear.


Edited by HamilcarBarca - 5/21/13 at 9:06pm
post #1645 of 1962

If you think USB power is at fault and introducing distortion then fix your PC, or get a powered hub.

 

or buy a BIG battery...

 

I have cut many USB cables apart and wired in pure DC sources...and it doenst make ANY real world differences...

 

But thats "my' experience....and for a lemming thats good!

 

LOL..

 

Alex

 

Note: Go get a Oscilloscope and look at the signal coming out of your dac....U should be able to see this "distortion"....post pics for us all to see.


Edited by adydula - 5/22/13 at 6:44am
post #1646 of 1962
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamilcarBarca View Post

 

You originally claimed the ODAC was lacking in texture (which means the mixture of voices -- instruments and/or singers -- and the way they're combined in melody, harmony, and/or rhythm.) You next redefined neutral as meaning nothing more than a flat frequency response. Then, rather than a lack of texture, it was a lack of detail. Then, it was a lack of resolution. I was, as the poster to whom you're responding mentioned, merely trying to clarify the mess.

 

The ODAC isn't alone in being neutral: Far from it. However, if there's an audible difference between a neutral device (one that adds no audible distortion) and some other device, the other device is adding distortion. It's an inescapable conclusion.

 

Being neutral doesn't mean it's the most pleasing to any listener, yet another inescapable conclusion. Your preferences, and mine, don't enter into the discussion of neutrality. It's simply what we like to hear.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi Rez View Post

I agree that the ODAC is neutral if you mean it has a flat measured frequency response. 

Excellent.   Let's certainly clarify our use of terms.  

 

Your definition of texture wasn't quite what I expected.  I was referencing the definition from the Head-Fi Glossary.  I would agree though that more resolved musical textures (Head-Fi definition) certainly enhance the perception of melody, harmony, and/or rhythm (your definition).

 

Texture - A perceptible pattern or structure in reproduced sound.

 

I don't find the use of resolution in the context of "resolving" musical textures to be inconsistent at all.

 

Resolution -  the capability of an system to distinguish details.

 

You used the term neutral first.  I was asking you how you defined neutral by starting my statement with "if you mean".  You've now clarified your use of neutral as no audible distortion.  For additional clarity, I wonder if you would care to provide your definition of "audible distortion."

 

Hmmm.  Speaking of trying to stay objective.  If we use your definition of neutral as being the absence of audible distortion, how can the determination that a device is "neutral" be objective if our hearing is being used to make that determination?  If two devices sound different, how is the determination made as to which one is the neutral one?  Does the use of neutral even apply to this discussion if the determination of "neutral" is subjective by the ear of the listener?

 

Which gets us back to the points I made in previous posts.  I personally found fine music textures to be mostly missing, and voices to not be as natural sounding as they are on my other DACs.  With the ODAC, bass notes weren't as resolved, plucked guitar strings weren't as sharp, voices had more sibilance, brushed cymbals were less clear....  Overall though, it is a nice little DAC - pretty happy with what it does.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #1647 of 1962
Quote:
Originally Posted by adydula View Post

If you think USB power is at fault and introducing distortion then fix your PC, or get a powered hub.

 

or buy a BIG battery...

 

I have cut many USB cables apart and wired in pure DC sources...and it doenst make ANY real world differences...

 

But thats "my' experience....and for a lemming thats good!

 

LOL..

 

Alex

 

Note: Go get a Oscilloscope and look at the signal coming out of your dac....U should be able to see this "distortion"....post pics for us all to see.

Good to hear that changing USB power wouldn't have any significant effect on what I am hearing - thank you.  I am not having any of the other issues that the instructions say would call for the use of a powered hub.  

 

I am continually amazed at what designers are doing with limited power these days (ODAC, Hummingbird).  I just have to wonder if some of what I am hearing with the ODAC is caused by compromises the designer has made due to the limited power budget - that is all.

post #1648 of 1962
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuna47 View Post

Would the bifrost be a large upgrade over the odac with lyr amp he500 phones

I wonder if you would more likely get a response if you post this in the Schiit DACs thread.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/545842/schiit-dacs-bifrost-and-gungnir-down-one-to-go-the-information-and-anticipation-thread

post #1649 of 1962

FWIW - I recently connected a powered USB hub to my ODAC out of necessity.

 

Originally the ODAC was powered by my desktop PC's USB port, no noise was noted at all.

That changed for the worse when I upgraded my keyboard and mouse to a wireless USB driven setup.

The USB on my PC was now maxxed out at six connections.

 

I did not need a o-scope to tell me that the signal was now degraded.

Not sure if this was due to an under-voltage condition or if noise was being injected into the line

by the new USB devices. While listening to music the static noise would build slowly until it was unbearable.

Unplugging the USB source to the ODAC, then re-plugging it

made the noise go away for awhile, but it always returned.

 

My laptop had similar problems driving any USB DAC. 

In this case the USB output was just noisy...period!

Clicks and pops with a static background that came and went sporadically

did not make for an enjoyable listening experience.

 

Enter the Targus seven port powered USB hub that I picked up at Amazon.

I plugged the ODAC into one of it's powered ports and Viola! no more problems - at all.

Both the laptop and the desktop PC drive the ODAC flawlessly.

 

Admittedly I had some expectation bias that maybe the Targus would drive the ODAC

better than the PC did originally, before the keyboard replacement.

That was not the case, the ODAC sounded perfect back then and no better now.

 

Moral of the story: Your USB port needs to deliver the full 5 volts at the rated current

and must provide a clean signal. If these conditions cannot be met, buy a powered USB hub.

post #1650 of 1962

No I dont think its because of any compromise of a "limited power budget" whatever that means.....the specs speak for themselves....

 

All this talk about missing detail or bass notes not being as full etc is just a line of crap.

 

Most likely something in your source to transducer chain is not set optimally.

 

The bits are there or are not. The output signal is clean or its not.

 

Do a AB comparison with a O'scope or a A/B program like is readily available on the AC signal output.

 

I can understand having issues with USB power, mostly due to a non USB Spec implementation, bad component, too many things plugged into a USB hub etc...

 

I have 7 pcs, of all kinds, Lenovo, ACER, HP, ASUS, Dell, none exhibit any issues with using USB power with the ODAC.

 

I can go out of my way and introduce 'unwanted' noise etc and hear the results, but with a properly designed, not overloaded USB supply...good shielded cables, not wraped around your microwave (LOL) ...most people will be just fine.

 

Note: The USB 1.x and 2.0 specifications provide a 5 V supply on a single wire to power connected USB devices. The specification provides for no more than 5.25 V and no less than 4.75 V (5 V±5%) between the positive and negative bus power lines. For USB 3.0, the voltage supplied by low-powered hub ports is 4.45–5.25 V

 

That said I did this sometime ago:

 

I cut apart a few cables to insert a milli-ammeter to actually measure the current draw of the ODAC.

 

The ODAC draws 50.5 milliamps of current connected, doesnt matter if its connected to a amp or not. I tested this as well.

The voltage was 5.04 vdc, and after the ODAC was connected the voltage was 5.04 vdc.

The USB power supply in this old tired gateway desktop was not phased in the least with this minimal load.

The USB 2.0 spec is 100ma per unit up to 5 units for 500ma total.

The ODAC is not even close to this as a load.

 

Over and out...

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