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HD800, T1 or LCD-2 on a small system - Page 3

post #31 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryder78 View Post

It may not be built like a brick...

 

More like built like concrete. LOL. Anyway the T1 is made of metal alloy on the exterior and stainless steel mesh covers on the outer side of each earpiece.

post #32 of 65

Well, it's not only me who thought the T1 is solidly built. Someone on the T1 thread suggested that it's built like a tank. Good for laughs though.

 

♦ as for the build quality of the T1 i think you could drop them off a skyscraper and throw them to the wall and they won't get even a scratch on them, believe the T1 has a very solid feel to it, you can say it's built to last for sure.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/508836/the-official-beyerdynamic-t1-owners-club-appreciation-discussion-thread/2520#post_8387932

post #33 of 65

They obviously didn't do it because it's not built like a tank.  I might have said in that thread that if one actually knew what being built like a tank really meant you wouldn't say that. wink.gif

post #34 of 65

Regardless of the comparisons to tanks or bricks, it's pretty clear to me that the T1s have excellent build quality. I recently saw a thread where someone was taking them apart and they commented about how the drivers and innards are just as solid as what you see on the outside. On top of that, I love the way the T1s look. I don't see how anyone could knock the construction of these cans. 

post #35 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focker View Post

I don't see how anyone could knock the construction of these cans. 

Ok, allow me to count the ways:

 

1-Cheap plastic (not high grade plastic) pivots attaching the yokes to the cups.

2-Generic Mid-tier Beyer headband w/ more cheap plastic.
3-Thin resonating cups w/ no damping materials inside; Beyer says they don't need damping because it's a 'Tesla' driver.  Yeah right, they ring like crazy and the measurements show it.  Beyer's just being cheap.

4-Poor QC with poorly matched drivers.  Also measured.

5-Inconsistent T1 signatures only surpassed by past LCD3 issues.

6-The T1 is basically the same construction as these $170-$250 DT990s except w/ a prettier metal herring bone cups  and skeleton yokes they just swap in.

7-I have it on good authority the T1 vendor cost is around $200.

8-The Tesla lineup doesn't even measure as well as the DT880.

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicT1SN3964.pdf

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicDT880600ohm.pdf

 

 

417%2BnzLpTwL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

41mmnumccKL._SL500_AA300_.jpg41tg8hLEa0L._SL500_AA300_.jpg


Edited by Anaxilus - 5/23/12 at 8:32pm
post #36 of 65

Wow...I really hope I never get to the point where I post anything like that lol. 

post #37 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post

Ok, allow me to count the ways:

 

1-Cheap plastic (not high grade plastic) pivots attaching the yokes to the cups.

2-Generic Mid-tier Beyer headband w/ more cheap plastic.
3-Thin resonating cups w/ no damping materials inside; Beyer says they don't need damping because it's a 'Tesla' driver.  Yeah right, they ring like crazy and the measurements show it.  Beyer's just being cheap.

4-Poor QC with poorly matched drivers.  Also measured.

5-Inconsistent T1 signatures only surpassed by past LCD3 issues.

6-The T1 is basically the same construction as these $170-$250 DT990s except w/ a prettier metal herring bone cups  and skeleton yokes they just swap in.

7-I have it on good authority the T1 vendor cost is around $200.

8-The Tesla lineup doesn't even measure as well as the DT880.

 

Cheap plastic or high-grade plastic, they are still plastic. The HD800 is an odd mix of metal and "high-performance" plastic on the cups(not on yokes or headband), and the plastic bits appear to render the overall design a little dull.

 

Any evidence on poor QC with poorly matched drivers?

 

As for the figure of $200, do you mean vendor cost or material cost?

 

Measurements don't always correlate to sound quality. Some loudspeakers, equipment or headphones with the best measurements do not sound as musical or engaging as those which exhibit poorer measurements.

post #38 of 65

yeah, I put only so much stock in measurements...they have their place, but there are sonic qualities that you can't really gather from looking at how a particular headphone or speaker measures. My ears are the final judge of what I like and what I don't. 

post #39 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post

Ok, allow me to count the ways:

 

1-Cheap plastic (not high grade plastic) pivots attaching the yokes to the cups.

2-Generic Mid-tier Beyer headband w/ more cheap plastic.
3-Thin resonating cups w/ no damping materials inside; Beyer says they don't need damping because it's a 'Tesla' driver.  Yeah right, they ring like crazy and the measurements show it.  Beyer's just being cheap.

4-Poor QC with poorly matched drivers.  Also measured.

5-Inconsistent T1 signatures only surpassed by past LCD3 issues.

6-The T1 is basically the same construction as these $170-$250 DT990s except w/ a prettier metal herring bone cups  and skeleton yokes they just swap in.

7-I have it on good authority the T1 vendor cost is around $200.

8-The Tesla lineup doesn't even measure as well as the DT880.

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicT1SN3964.pdf

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicDT880600ohm.pdf

 

 

417%2BnzLpTwL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

41mmnumccKL._SL500_AA300_.jpg41tg8hLEa0L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

 

 

Uhmm, the HD800 still looks like a toy when compared to the T1 with its cheap *high-grade* plastic construction. No offense.

post #40 of 65

Getting back to the question...

 

HD800, T1, or LCD2? Lots of opinions, and ample info to determine which headphone you prefer - even if you lack the chance to preview them personally. I can speak for the HD800, which respond well to ample amplification. And you can find used units in pristine condition, with original box and materials, for $1000. 

post #41 of 65

Something else to consider....Jan Meier, a very highly respected manufacturer who is intimately familar with both the T1s and the HD800s, prefers the T1s in terms of stock condition. There is a mod for the HD800 that he likes, and when the mod is in play he prefers the HD800s. Not sure if that helps, but it's a point of interest if nothing else. I have had a great experience as a customer of Meier Audio. 

post #42 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeyerFan View Post

 

Any evidence on poor QC with poorly matched drivers?

 

Yes, but I'd need to edit the graph's source tag as we're starting to restrict access to that data.  Suffice to say many 'Teslas' are as bad or worse than this:

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicT50pSN16912.pdf

 

As for the figure of $200, do you mean vendor cost or material cost?

 

Vendor.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryder78 View Post

Uhmm, the HD800 still looks like a toy when compared to the T1 with its cheap *high-grade* plastic construction. No offense.

 

Like I said, feel free to enjoy your aesthetic preferences, but it's just that.  Not 'build quality'.  It's clear some here have little understanding of the engineering benefits of the 'high-grade' plastics like used in the HD800 and aerospace and how that translates to acoustic performance.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Focker View Post

Something else to consider....Jan Meier, a very highly respected manufacturer who is intimately familar with both the T1s and the HD800s, prefers the T1s in terms of stock condition. There is a mod for the HD800 that he likes, and when the mod is in play he prefers the HD800s. Not sure if that helps, but it's a point of interest if nothing else. I have had a great experience as a customer of Meier Audio. 

 

Yeah, I'm vaguely familiar with it.  wink_face.gif

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod

 

Anyway, back to the OP who isn't concerned w/ tanks, bricks and concrete.


Edited by Anaxilus - 5/23/12 at 10:11pm
post #43 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post

 

 

  It's clear some here have little understanding of the engineering benefits of the 'high-grade' plastics like used in the HD800 and aerospace and how that translates to acoustic performance.

 

 

 

 

I'm GLAD I don't get into all that...this is a hobby for me, nothing more. I want the best sound I can achieve at a given price point, and that's exactly what I've been able to obtain. I don't see any point in trashing a headphone on a forum such as this, especially a headphone that so many people - both the casual headphone user and respected industry professional alike - praise and enjoy. I'm 39 years old, a medical professional with two degrees, and with a lot of experience in home audio. I think I'm more than capable of determining when something has a solid build and sounds good. I have no idea how it may compare to the HD800, but it's a moot point. The T1 is a very highly respected headphone, one of the best on the market, and that's good enough for me. 

post #44 of 65

The point is to counter widespread misconceptions and hyperbole.  Much of which results in the less experienced and familiar members overpaying for underperforming equipment.  A phenomena many of us have had the displeasure of experiencing first hand.  If you don't like the answers, don't ask the questions.  If you want a perfect world where everyone is happy and devoid of problems then I'm sorry to disappoint you.  Anyone can buy whatever they want but that's no reason to discourage counter arguments and debate.  May I remind you the OP who started this thread is asking which phone is better.  That involves a exchange of information and opinions.  I think you may have confused this thread with the Beyerdynamic T1 appreciation thread?  If the OP chooses to listen to anyone's viewpoint here is up to him.  You are in no position to determine what is appropriate material and what should be censured in relation to the OP's question.  


Edited by Anaxilus - 5/23/12 at 10:27pm
post #45 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focker View Post

I have no idea how it may compare to the HD800, but it's a moot point.

How is comparing the T1 to the HD800 a moot point when that is exactly the OP's question?  blink.gif That is exactly THE point.

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