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Hi,
Another quick question just been looking on the net and noticed that I can get the denon Ah-7000
For more or less the same price, because I find the comfort a issue with 400sI was wondering if the denon would be better and similar in the sound department ,I don't want a bright headphone
Just one I can listen to and not get fatigued.
And would the denon work ok with a ray Samuel tomahawk amp ?
Sorry for all the questions just new to the headphone game .
I wish I had a Ray Samuels amp when I was new to the headphone game....
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Nope HE-400 is pretty warm/dark. You won't get much more of a fatigue-free headphone than that. I even consider the HD650 to be more fatiguing-- especially when listening to bright masterings in the first place. I wouldn't consider the Denons bright headphones. If anything they're dark thanks to a good bit of bass presence and recessed upper-midrange that would otherwise make their mids aggressive compared to other neutral headphones. Their lower treble however, can be bright depending on recording. It's just the nature of a u-shaped response.
As for comfort, it really depends on what you value in comfort. The Denons have an extraordinary fit and very low clamping pressure-- which also means they don't really get sweaty even though they're pleather. However they still can get warm, which is something any closed headphone lacks in comparison to something completely open.
As for something like AKG701 having sub-bass extension to rival the Hifmans, I really question it even if I havn't heard the AKGs. Objective measurements and graphs say otherwise, and having a small amount of low-bass presence isn't the same as having an even amount compared to upper bass and mids. I remember even reading about people saying the AD700 had some of the best low bass extension out of most headphones they've tried when I was researching bass extension topics on head-fi.
Sub-bass shouldn't be distracting, by nature of our hearing it's considerably quieter compared to upper midrange around 3-5khz and lower treble. But if people don't like having an ear massage that's on them.
Oh well, guess everyone will always have a different opinion.
You know, I still wonder if you've ever actually heard HD650 or if someone slapped some HD600 drivers in a graphite colored shell and told you they were HD650s
Everything you've said in contrast to HD650 (referring to our dialogue in Matt's thread) seems to be the absolute opposite of everything HD650 is. Including your questioning of why it's called laid back and your mention of it's upper mids energy. You're the second person this week to call HD650 fatiguing, and that person (tdockweiler) I also questioned if he had it confused with HD600 (which in his case, he does also own.) I agree that HE-400 is non-fatiguing and that the Denons can be more fatiguing, however I'd still say the HD650 is the undisputed champion of non-fatiguing listening and even HE-400 can't come close in that regard. It's the second closest, but from a distance. Even with a flipping silver cable it's still less fatiguing!
Not that HE-400 is really fatiguing at all, but it could become fatiguing faster than HD650 from where I stand. Every time you talk about HD650 I have the same reaction: "Huh?"
Maybe it really was HD650 you heard, maybe you just hear it differently, or just word the descriptions differently, but the more you talk about them and the more unusual statements you have about them (and I know your hearing of headphone responses is usually very good), the more I question if you had a funky 650 of some kind which has skewed your estimation of them somehow. (I'm not saying you're wrong in what you hear, I just always get confused. You're the only person I've ever heard apply certain attributes to HD650, and most of those attributes pertain well to HD600.) Unless you're talking about the early black-screened HD650. I haven't heard those, and you could very well be right about those, I couldn't say. But supposedly those were darker still.)
Regarding Denons, I don't know about D7k with their u-shaped curve, but D5k (which should have a similar, if less tamed, upper-end) has quite a bit of sparkle and I would say is strongly more bright than HE-400 or HD650. They don't fatigue me as fast as K702 though. I consider D5k outright warm-bright, but with a very strong low-end. D7k has a somewhat different curve, but that mostly affects mids, not the treble character.
Denon comfort. Most people rave about the comfort. And they're not bad. But I find the pads too thin in the front and the force, even slight makes it dig into my cheek as a result. I have some Lawton pads on order that should remedy that for me though.
Regarding K702 bass, the FR charts show it as relatively flat. It may have been exaggeration to say it's similar extension to HE-400, but it's a heck of a lot closer than HD650 in the sub-bass department. Most folks complain about AKG as bass-light, but they're really pretty bass-flat and definitely have some good sub-bass extension even if it is relatively quiet, it's still perceptibly present. Listening to pipe organ on the AKGs won't be as satisfying as on the Denons, or as forceful as the HE-400, but it'll still have a lot more deep resonance than on HD650, and is shocking for a fully open small-driver dynamic. I'm not saying I'd pick them for bass-heavy music given my collection though