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Audeze LCD2 wood versus Humidity - Page 2

post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikp View Post

 

Well, all I know is that violins will develop cracks when the temperature's too high. And when that happens, the violin is stuffed. Ever heard of a piano dehumidifier? Wood will stretch and contract in response to climate. High humidity can damage them permanently (cracks, bridge, soundboard, sticky keys). But these are instruments and I am not quite sure of headphones. If the wood actually plays any part in how the headphone sounds (which I assume they do), then humidity will more likely damage them.

 

Yes, wood will develop cracks with big variations in temperature, or the temperature is too high. However, if the wood, in this case the violin is protected from temperature variations, then this should not be an issue. Most musical instruments are kept indoors anyway. I suspect you are referring to humidity rather than temperature variation in your comment, just like ryder has suggested.

 

Yes, I know about piano dehumidifiers. Our Yamaha piano comes with one, though I have yet to check if it's still working. Again, I don't think this humidity thing will affect the wood on the Audeze headphones too much. Perhaps in 10 to 20 years we may see some aging signs, no comment on the cracking part as it depends on the quality and type of wood and how well it's treated. I believe the internal wood of the violin isn't treated and the type of wood is more porous, and perhaps that is where problems crop up with variations in humidity levels.

post #17 of 26

When talking violins, the wood is very thin, is usually maple or something more exotic, and the interior is untreated.  Humidity's effect is temporary in terms of any swelling, but the bigger problem is the joints.  The resonances are transmitted from the top wood to the bottom wood via a small maple dowel called the "sound post".   If the wood swells too much, in addition to bowing of the neck or, in next to worst case, splitting at the exterior seams where the sides are attached, the very worst case is if it swells to the point where the sound post falls over inside.  The result of that is generally that the tension from the strings pushing down on the bridge with no support underneath from the missing soundpost means that the bridge will generally just crush through the top wood, ruining the instrument beyond repairability.  Violins are a distressfully fragile thing revealing the true meaning of "excess" from the gilded age... rolleyes.gif   And then there's the bow......

 

Generally the bigger problem is low humidity though, or dramatic shifts in humidity leading to cracking, splitting, and falling posts.  Higher humidity may make the $400k violin sound like a $500 starter model, but it shouldn't break it unless that high humidity shifts, at which point there's a big problem.  (Yeah, $500 starter, $400k-$4M pro.....and you thought headphones were expensive!)  Keeping it in a case is due to keeping a humidifier in the case to ensure the humidity doesn't drop too much.  As well as thermal protection when in transit. 
 

Looking at Audeze cans, I don't think we're talking about maintaining equal-but-opposite high-tension forces on paper-thin woods through 1/4" diameter friction-fit posts precariously placed at exacting locations and high strain wood glues binding the exterior.  They shouldn't have that kind of issue.  And the new bamboo models, it's a tropical wood to begin with.  When was the last time anyone saw bamboo split for any reason?  It's good stuff. 

 

Still, look at the original HiFiMan HE-5 and the wood cracking problems that caused them to abandon wood.  Granted, we know what kind of production value went into that wood and why it cracked.  But it's always a possibility.

post #18 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

When talking violins, the wood is very thin, is usually maple or something more exotic, and the interior is untreated.  Humidity's effect is temporary in terms of any swelling, but the bigger problem is the joints.  The resonances are transmitted from the top wood to the bottom wood via a small maple dowel called the "sound post".   If the wood swells too much, in addition to bowing of the neck or, in next to worst case, splitting at the exterior seams where the sides are attached, the very worst case is if it swells to the point where the sound post falls over inside.  The result of that is generally that the tension from the strings pushing down on the bridge with no support underneath from the missing soundpost means that the bridge will generally just crush through the top wood, ruining the instrument beyond repairability.  Violins are a distressfully fragile thing revealing the true meaning of "excess" from the gilded age... rolleyes.gif   And then there's the bow......

 

Generally the bigger problem is low humidity though, or dramatic shifts in humidity leading to cracking, splitting, and falling posts.  Higher humidity may make the $400k violin sound like a $500 starter model, but it shouldn't break it unless that high humidity shifts, at which point there's a big problem.  (Yeah, $500 starter, $400k-$4M pro.....and you thought headphones were expensive!)  Keeping it in a case is due to keeping a humidifier in the case to ensure the humidity doesn't drop too much.  As well as thermal protection when in transit. 
 

Looking at Audeze cans, I don't think we're talking about maintaining equal-but-opposite high-tension forces on paper-thin woods through 1/4" diameter friction-fit posts precariously placed at exacting locations and high strain wood glues binding the exterior.  They shouldn't have that kind of issue.  And the new bamboo models, it's a tropical wood to begin with.  When was the last time anyone saw bamboo split for any reason?  It's good stuff. 

 

Still, look at the original HiFiMan HE-5 and the wood cracking problems that caused them to abandon wood.  Granted, we know what kind of production value went into that wood and why it cracked.  But it's always a possibility.

 

I guess the Rosewood models also come from tropical areas. Carribean to be exact.. Right?

post #19 of 26

It's not the humidity you should worry about, but rather the lack of humidity or dry conditions.  I work with many different types of exotic woods and most are pretty unstable (not completely dry), so if it's too dry (like in the winter for me) and the wood doesn't have a protective finish, the wood will warp, crack, shrink, etc.  Many issues arise from this. 

 

But I'd say that it's better to be in a humid area than a dry area of the world.  As far as Audeze goes I'd guess that their wood supplier is using a stabilized wood that is prepared in a controlled environment. 

 

I remember the Hifiman HE5's initially were built with a wood ring around the drivers, but many were experiencing cracking in dry conditions.  But they switched to plastic which alleviated that problem. 

post #20 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceEdelweiss View Post

 

I guess the Rosewood models also come from tropical areas. Carribean to be exact.. Right?

Rosewood comes from many areas and some things are spurriously called "rosewood" when in reality they aren't.  Africa is a common source of rosewood, there are some varieties in South America.  There are some species from around Washington state that are often called "rosewood" especially for entry level acoustic instruments when they aren't nearly hard enough to really be rosewood.  And then you get to Chinese "rosewood" and all bets are off wink.gif

post #21 of 26

Just taken delivery of a bamboo LCD 2, they come with a decent wax and cloth, which should keep them in tip top condition in most climates...

 

As stated above, it's not load bearing, but I'd avoid wearing in the shower...

post #22 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlantinen View Post

It's not the humidity you should worry about, but rather the lack of humidity or dry conditions.  I work with many different types of exotic woods and most are pretty unstable (not completely dry), so if it's too dry (like in the winter for me) and the wood doesn't have a protective finish, the wood will warp, crack, shrink, etc.  Many issues arise from this. 

 

But I'd say that it's better to be in a humid area than a dry area of the world.  As far as Audeze goes I'd guess that their wood supplier is using a stabilized wood that is prepared in a controlled environment. 

 

I remember the Hifiman HE5's initially were built with a wood ring around the drivers, but many were experiencing cracking in dry conditions.  But they switched to plastic which alleviated that problem. 

 

What about fungus? Woods can be a habitat for fungus, especially for humid place, right?

post #23 of 26

If you're so phobic about the wood on the LCD2 getting infected with mold or fungus, you can always come over to the Beyerdynamic side. Much resolving, neutral and open sound minus the analytical and overly-bright presentation and character of the HD800.

post #24 of 26

no mold on my lcd-2 yet.

post #25 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeyerFan View Post

If you're so phobic about the wood on the LCD2 getting infected with mold or fungus, you can always come over to the Beyerdynamic side. Much resolving, neutral and open sound minus the analytical and overly-bright presentation and character of the HD800.

Haha.. it's not phobic.. I mean LCD2 is not cheap for a university student like me.. so I have to consider it carefully and how to treat them well for a long run... 

Also, my university room is really.. I mean really.. It can reach 37 deg C at noon.. so I am really worried about it.. (Also my dorm's rule does not allow any aircon), plus there are several mold colonies growing on my wall.. =_=

Meanwhile, I have tested several Beyerdynamic models and they do not suit my taste well enough.. 

 

On the other hand, the option for me is Senns HD700 (i'm waiting for the review) or Audeze LCD2 (which I have tested and I like it very much)..

But thank you for your suggestion, I really appreciate it :)


Edited by IceEdelweiss - 5/23/12 at 1:56am
post #26 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceEdelweiss View Post

Haha.. it's not phobic.. I mean LCD2 is not cheap for a university student like me.. so I have to consider it carefully and how to treat them well for a long run... 

Also, my university room is really.. I mean really.. It can reach 37 deg C at noon.. 

heavens, 37! It nearly reached 24 deg C here today and I'm faring far less well than the LCD-2 though no mould on me or them...

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