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Hifiman HE-6 vs Audeze LCD-3 - Page 13

Poll Results: Which one is better?

 
  • 47% (116)
    Hifiman HE-6
  • 52% (129)
    Audeze LCD-3
245 Total Votes  
post #181 of 397

Thanks for the impressions.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Camper View Post

I know there are sources that output more than the standard 2v. Would a bigger V in improve the 22's performance with the 6 or is it the current limits?

 

This would help if the amp was actually being turned up to the max. If the attenuator or whatever isn't at 100% though, then there isn't any need for more gain. I've had a look at the numbers, and with a 1.4 Vrms source playing material at -20dB, an 8x gain B22 (not balanced) will take the HE6 to 97.5 dB (103.5 dB for 8x balanced). Enough for most I expect. And that's only pushing 20mA, not even close to the standby current let alone the max.

 

We're not going to be able to solve this one online, as I haven't heard the amps you're talking about (excuse the noob). I would just encourage more blind testing, because if there's really a reason the B22/B24 don't sound as good as some speaker amps, then (AFAIK) nobody in the world of electronics knows why. It certainly doesn't show up in the measurements, as the B22 is pretty much perfect. I'll leave that one to sound science smily_headphones1.gif, best to not derail the thread any more, cheers all.

post #182 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyjojo View Post

Thanks for the impressions.

 

 

This would help if the amp was actually being turned up to the max. If the attenuator or whatever isn't at 100% though, then there isn't any need for more gain. I've had a look at the numbers, and with a 1.4 Vrms source playing material at -20dB, an 8x gain B22 (not balanced) will take the HE6 to 97.5 dB (103.5 dB for 8x balanced). Enough for most I expect. And that's only pushing 20mA, not even close to the standby current let alone the max.

 

We're not going to be able to solve this one online, as I haven't heard the amps you're talking about (excuse the noob). I would just encourage more blind testing, because if there's really a reason the B22/B24 don't sound as good as some speaker amps, then (AFAIK) nobody in the world of electronics knows why. It certainly doesn't show up in the measurements, as the B22 is pretty much perfect. I'll leave that one to sound science smily_headphones1.gif, best to not derail the thread any more, cheers all.

every contribution is important, technical or from a listening session.

in the amb forum, i read that the beta is good for the he-6.

another example: some people is happy with the little-dot mkVI and the HE-6.

in the E.U. loaner program my friend tried the HE-6 with the little-dot mk Vi and was not satisfied.

in every case, you must always do many tests with many combinations(ex. some sources with the beta) but it is not always easy

post #183 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by grokit View Post

 

Now entering the earspeaker galaxy!

 

A happier place.... biggrin.gif

post #184 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by alota View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyjojo View Post

Thanks for the impressions.

 

 

This would help if the amp was actually being turned up to the max. If the attenuator or whatever isn't at 100% though, then there isn't any need for more gain. I've had a look at the numbers, and with a 1.4 Vrms source playing material at -20dB, an 8x gain B22 (not balanced) will take the HE6 to 97.5 dB (103.5 dB for 8x balanced). Enough for most I expect. And that's only pushing 20mA, not even close to the standby current let alone the max.

 

We're not going to be able to solve this one online, as I haven't heard the amps you're talking about (excuse the noob). I would just encourage more blind testing, because if there's really a reason the B22/B24 don't sound as good as some speaker amps, then (AFAIK) nobody in the world of electronics knows why. It certainly doesn't show up in the measurements, as the B22 is pretty much perfect. I'll leave that one to sound science smily_headphones1.gif, best to not derail the thread any more, cheers all.

every contribution is important, technical or from a listening session.

in the amb forum, i read that the beta is good for the he-6.

another example: some people is happy with the little-dot mkVI and the HE-6.

in the E.U. loaner program my friend tried the HE-6 with the little-dot mk Vi and was not satisfied.

in every case, you must always do many tests with many combinations(ex. some sources with the beta) but it is not always easy

 

 

Two things are wrong: The AMB forum, and HiFiMAN's stated efficiency specs for the HE6. The latter helps to explain why the math doesn't work, and the former.

 

Many are happy with the HE6 out of a marginally-powered amp as it can still sound pretty good. But when powered properly it's capable of greatness.


Edited by grokit - 9/26/12 at 1:25pm
post #185 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by grokit View Post


Two things are wrong: The AMB forum, and HiFiMAN's stated efficiency specs for the HE6. The latter helps to explain why the math doesn't work, and the former.

Many are happy with the HE6 out of a marginally-powered amp as it can still sound pretty good. But when powered properly it's capable of greatness.

I am in agreement with this. If every pair had the pigtail like it was supposed to, this discussion most likely wouldn't be taking place. Properly fostered, the HE-6 will go down as a classic headspeaker. Trying to sell to a headphone market with mini-amps a pair of planar speakers might have been a bit confusing to some but it's because they do sound good on lessor gear that we have such a divide.
post #186 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Camper View Post


I am in agreement with this. If every pair had the pigtail like it was supposed to, this discussion most likely wouldn't be taking place. Properly fostered, the HE-6 will go down as a classic headspeaker. Trying to sell to a headphone market with mini-amps a pair of planar speakers might have been a bit confusing to some but it's because they do sound good on lessor gear that we have such a divide.

 

+1, and the fact that there's enough high-end headamps that actually cross that line and do really output the power levels of a speaker amp that it blurs the line even more.

 

Though there's still the mystery that the headamps that do put out speaker-amp power levels still seem to fail A/B against speaker amps.  There's some variable we're still not taking into account in the speaker vs. headamp design realm that would probably easily appease the measurements folks once identified. 

post #187 of 397

Maybe Fang should change the enclosure of HE6 drivers into something more akin to the older STAXs or the K1000, to get the message across better.

post #188 of 397
I don't think his intention was to make a speaker with a headband. I think he really wanted to make a headphone.
post #189 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Camper View Post

I don't think his intention was to make a speaker with a headband. I think he really wanted to make a headphone.

 

Have you tried HE-500 or even HE-5LE out of a speaker amp, since you've tried LCD-2.2?  If so, how did it compare to HE-6?

post #190 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

Have you tried HE-500 or even HE-5LE out of a speaker amp, since you've tried LCD-2.2?  If so, how did it compare to HE-6?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Camper View Post

Decent headphone amps will make them sound good. The speaker amps make them sound even more like speakers. I was comparing the 500s to the 6s on two different amps for a month. The 500s on a .5w tube hp amp (SP Extreme+) and the 6s on a pair of 125w monoblock speaker amps. Both sounded very good but the ambient information and impact/bass accuracy was noticeably better on the speaker amp/6s. Being that the 500s have the same cable connection to the drivers, I moved the 500s over to the speaker amps. Wow. The two were almost identical. I still think the 6s were the better sounding of the two so the 500s went back. As to how much difference there was between the two, I'm going to put out a % of less than 10%. The 6s were more open and the soundstage more fulfilling with big music like symphonies and live venues. The bass was just a bit more firm and articulate with the 6s where the 500s has more "rumble". With enough juice, the HEs will rock you like speakers.
post #191 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

 

Have you tried HE-500 or even HE-5LE out of a speaker amp, since you've tried LCD-2.2?  If so, how did it compare to HE-6?

it seems to me that it is the same thing with the lcd-2

when i listened this headphone with a normal amplifier sounded good but nothing special. when i listened with my beta-22... WOW!!!

post #192 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Camper View Post

 

Interesting evaluation.  I've considered in the next year or so getting a second pair of "something" as I see it come up used or whatever to use with my second rig....Lyr for a while, and then whenever I get my mega amp (in a year or so probably) for HE-6, move the Marantz over there.   Was wondering how HE-500 would hold up with more power as a backup...and/or in case HE-6 were to fail one day for some reason....that's kind of encouraging.

 

How severe was the need for attenuation on the speaker amp next to HE-6?

post #193 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

 

+1, and the fact that there's enough high-end headamps that actually cross that line and do really output the power levels of a speaker amp that it blurs the line even more.

 

Though there's still the mystery that the headamps that do put out speaker-amp power levels still seem to fail A/B against speaker amps.  There's some variable we're still not taking into account in the speaker vs. headamp design realm that would probably easily appease the measurements folks once identified. 

 

As I've said before, it's probably expectation bias that the physically bigger amp has more "authority" or "weight" or whatever you want to call it. It could also be something as simple as not level matching. Side by side, the louder of two sources (even by as little as 0.1 dB) will usually sound "better".

post #194 of 397

Or it could be the speaker amps just plainly and simply sound better with certain headphons.

post #195 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

Or it could be the speaker amps just plainly and simply sound better with certain headphons.

 

If it is there's a whole branch of electronics just waiting to be discovered.

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