Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › Hifiman HE-6 vs Audeze LCD-3
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Hifiman HE-6 vs Audeze LCD-3 - Page 12

Poll Results: Which one is better?

 
  • 48% (130)
    Hifiman HE-6
  • 51% (138)
    Audeze LCD-3
268 Total Votes  
post #166 of 405

No idea if the B24 matches well with the HE6, but based on personal experience, the B22 doesn't get there.  The B22+HE6 doesn't sound bad, but it's possible to get much more out of the HE6 than the B22 can manifest.  That said, the B22 is one of my favorite dynamic headamps.

post #167 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by dleblanc343 View Post

I own the HE-6, it's my favorite headphone. That being said, I had to buy a new speaker amp to pair with it because the 3 other amps I had simply didn't do it for me.

 

Same here on all counts tongue_smile.gif

 

I tried a T-amp, a WA22 with 2 watt power tubes, and a Lyr, and I was very disappointed with the HE6 at that point. Everything changed with quality speaker-level power.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxper View Post

It's known the HE-6 is hard to pair with a headphone amp, that said, it's because of how x speaker amp is comparatively.

The HE-6 and Lyr is not ideal, but it's ok. Compared to a speaker amp, it's pretty bad. 

But the Dark Star is pretty damn good with the HE-6, even compared to some speaker taps.

 

The Dark Star is very unusual for a headamp in that it provides speaker amp-level power through headphone ports.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyjojo View Post

 

I'm interested as a question came up recently on the AMB forum where a user was asking about building a B24 (170W/ch into 8 ohms power amp) to replace his B22 for driving HE-6 as he felt speaker amps he'd tested with had "more authority" and was basically laughed out by the admin, as practically the only difference between the two is power, and the B22 already has plenty of that. The only explanation was expectation bias of the user that his speaker amp, being physically bigger etc, was doing a better job.

 

That's what everybody says until they they hear the difference for themselves. The more they know, the more stubborn they can be. The AMB admin was wrong, because the HE6 is not a conventional headphone. It's a set of earspeakers like an AKG K1000. This happens over and over with the HE6, it's really kind of amusing at this point.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysian View Post

No idea if the B24 matches well with the HE6, but based on personal experience, the B22 doesn't get there.  The B22+HE6 doesn't sound bad, but it's possible to get much more out of the HE6 than the B22 can manifest.  That said, the B22 is one of my favorite dynamic headamps.

 

Right, nothing against the B22. Just like the WA22 is my one of my favorites but it just doesn't cut it with the HE6. There's a few others it's marginal with power-wise (it's fine with the LCDs), but with the HE6 it's not even close.


Edited by grokit - 9/23/12 at 2:15am
post #168 of 405
We had use of a 24 when doing some sampling of amps. I liked all the other amps more. That included two Emotiva amps, Marantz, Sim, Prima Luna and Rotel. I didn't think it had the same open spaciousness of the other amps. Another head fier was looking to buying the 24 for his HE-6 but found his speaker monoblocks worked to his tastes better. But it did drive the 6s from a pure power rating.
post #169 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysian View Post

 but based on personal experience, the B22 doesn't get there.  The B22+HE6 doesn't sound bad, but it's possible to get much more out of the HE6 than the B22 can manifest.  That said, the B22 is one of my favorite dynamic headamps.

i agree but is a shame because, with this combination, i listened the best sound in the mid and high section.

i hope that my new beta arrive in the end of the year for a new experience with the he-6 but it is obvious that the he-6 is hard to drive, more compared to the K-1000

agood solution: preout from the beta and b-24 for the he-6?

post #170 of 405
I know there are sources that output more than the standard 2v. Would a bigger V in improve the 22's performance with the 6 or is it the current limits?
post #171 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Camper View Post

I know there are sources that output more than the standard 2v. Would a bigger V in improve the 22's performance with the 6 or is it the current limits?

i don´t know if i understand your question(my english is not good).

you asked if a source with more volts in the output improve the beta or beta have a limitation in current with the he-6?

i think that the beta is not a good marriage with the he-6 for current limitation, otherwise with the akg k-1000 is better

i have heard that lacks the force for a full sound

post #172 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Camper View Post

I know there are sources that output more than the standard 2v. Would a bigger V in improve the 22's performance with the 6 or is it the current limits?

 

Isn't that the same thing?  Feeding x volts into the amp should draw y current.  It shouldn't matter whether the input voltage comes from a source or a pre, the power amp should be putting out y current as it receives x volts.  Feeding more v into a pre (or the pseudo-pre voltage gain stage of the 22) would just mean you're applying vgain to a higher v input, meaning the pre (vgain) stage would be at a higher v output at a lower position on the volume pot but the amp would be putting out whatever y current it puts out at x volts all the same.  Meaning you'd still top out on current at the same SPL, you'd just be applying less voltage gain to arrive at that final voltage that's draining the 22 of current.

 

That said I'm still convinced there's a craziness to the excessive currents you guys are using in your power amps.  Headroom is one thing, but I doubt you're touching very much of those amp's reserves at all...you're just keeping the vgain at a bare minimum to constrain it via stepped attenuators and the like biggrin.gif  I mean the HE-6 is only rated for 8W which is...what...55wpc @ 8ohm?  And the SPL at 8W would make for a better near-field monitor than a headphone from the HE-6 wink.gif  I'm not saying they're not great amps, such as your Rotels, I'm saying that I'm still convinced that they're great amps in spite of being way overpowered than what's needed, rather than because of it smily_headphones1.gif

post #173 of 405

The above is correct, a hotter source will need less gain to get to the same output level. In real life, you'd just turn the attenuator down a bit which would dial the incoming signal down to whatever the cold source was putting in before.

 

I haven't heard the HE 6 at all, with a B22 or otherwise, so this is only based on the theory (I built a B22 earlier this year).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alota View Post

i don´t know if i understand your question(my english is not good).

you asked if a source with more volts in the output improve the beta or beta have a limitation in current with the he-6?

i think that the beta is not a good marriage with the he-6 for current limitation, otherwise with the akg k-1000 is better

i have heard that lacks the force for a full sound

 

The B22 definitely does not have a current limitation, ever. It idles at 160 mA, and can go a lot higher before overheating (on the order of AMPS if your heatsinks are big enough). It will happily drive efficient 8 ohm speakers to normal listening levels.

 

I don't know if people ignore the specs because most headphone amps are vague about them, or because they don't understand them. A B22, B24, or whatever power amp you like, will all be running well below their peak output with the HE-6. I'd also hazard a guess that the B22 will be doing so with far better specs than your vintage receiver. This is why when people give an intangible reason for preferring a vintage receiver (e.g. "lacked authority") in a sighted listening test, I'm very suspicious. If you can genuinely (blind) tell a difference between the amps, it's probably the receiver colouring the sound.


Edited by joeyjojo - 9/25/12 at 10:45am
post #174 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyjojo View Post

The above is correct, a hotter source will need less gain to get to the same output level. In real life, you'd just turn the attenuator down a bit which would dial the incoming signal down to whatever the cold source was putting in before.

 

I haven't heard the HE 6 at all, with a B22 or otherwise, so this is only based on the theory (I built a B22 earlier this year).

 

 

The B22 definitely does not have a current limitation, ever. It idles at 160 mA, and can go a lot higher before overheating (on the order of AMPS if your heatsinks are big enough). It will happily drive efficient 8 ohm speakers to normal listening levels.

 

I don't know if people ignore the specs because most headphone amps are vague about them, or because they don't understand them. A B22, B24, or whatever power amp you like, will all be running well below their peak output with the HE-6. I'd also hazard a guess that the B22 will be doing so with far better specs than your vintage receiver. This is why when people give an intangible reason for preferring a vintage receiver (e.g. "lacked authority") in a sighted listening test, I'm very suspicious. If you can genuinely (blind) tell a difference between the amps, it's probably the receiver colouring the sound.

probably i used a wrong word. my sensation is that the he-6 need more because the soundstage was small and the low frequencies very distants. my beta was balanced with 8X gain in each board

post #175 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyjojo View Post

The above is correct, a hotter source will need less gain to get to the same output level. In real life, you'd just turn the attenuator down a bit which would dial the incoming signal down to whatever the cold source was putting in before.

 

I haven't heard the HE 6 at all, with a B22 or otherwise, so this is only based on the theory (I built a B22 earlier this year).

 

 

The B22 definitely does not have a current limitation, ever. It idles at 160 mA, and can go a lot higher before overheating (on the order of AMPS if your heatsinks are big enough). It will happily drive efficient 8 ohm speakers to normal listening levels.

 

I don't know if people ignore the specs because most headphone amps are vague about them, or because they don't understand them. A B22, B24, or whatever power amp you like, will all be running well below their peak output with the HE-6. I'd also hazard a guess that the B22 will be doing so with far better specs than your vintage receiver. This is why when people give an intangible reason for preferring a vintage receiver (e.g. "lacked authority") in a sighted listening test, I'm very suspicious. If you can genuinely (blind) tell a difference between the amps, it's probably the receiver colouring the sound.

 

That's the key.  The HE-6 does need the same kind of power that drives normal speakers, but so long as the "headamp" supplies that kind of power, then it's not really a headamp but a power amp with headphone outputs biggrin.gif  However, there is a magical (not magical in the amp design business) reason why speaker amps do....something...differently than head amps.  In the HE-6 thread, a few weeks ago, Justin of Headamp was discussing the GS-X with someone who was buying the combo.  Even he agreed with others that if you're interested in powering only the HE-6, a speaker amp would be more ideal, though the GS-X does a great job.  So I'm not sure what that factor is, but I'm sure any genuine amp designer could tell us in a heartbeat what goes into the design of a speaker amp versus a headamp that makes them behave differently with something like HE-6.  Clearly there's an attribute beyond simple current delivery that applies.

post #176 of 405

Yes and my 4 channel b22 is set at 8X gain as well.  I've notice one problem that's seem to be consistent - That is "Theory".  When we put these bad boys (HE-6) to the test the HE-6 always came out asking for much more than any headphone amp I've heard could give it.

 

Now maybe a B22 set at 8X gain is not enough and could very well be set higher like 12X gain or so.  However, That would disturb the synergy it has with all other headphones.  The B24 was a different story all together.  It definatly had enough to drive the HE-6s it just didn't sound as good as both sets of mono blocks.  One set waas 125wpc the other set was 300wpc.  Both sound better than the B24 which in turn (I was told) sounded better than the Dark Star.

 

Theory or Practice?

post #177 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

 

Theory or Practice?

good questionbiggrin.gif

only one consideration

when one headphone need a lot of power, big amplifiers, etc., perhaps we are not passing the world of the headphones???


Edited by alota - 9/25/12 at 1:07pm
post #178 of 405
I gotta say, whatever opens the soundstage with pinpoint placement and controls bass definition, the speaker amps do it better with the 6s (and as was shown today the LCD) than the B22. On the HD800s, the B22 is whatever superlative you care to use.
post #179 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by alota View Post

when one headphone need a lot of power, big amplifiers, etc., perhaps we are not passing the world of the headphones???

 

Now entering the earspeaker galaxy!

post #180 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by grokit View Post

 

Now entering the earspeaker galaxy!

yesL3000.gif

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: High-end Audio Forum
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › Hifiman HE-6 vs Audeze LCD-3