Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › Smyth SVS Realiser - PRIR Exchange Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Smyth SVS Realiser - PRIR Exchange Thread - Page 7

post #91 of 352
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinf View Post

JleJle:


I listened to the surround tests just with headphones straight out of the computer. The effect does work in that the sound does sound like it's coming from outside of my head, but the center channel sounds in my head and not in front. The rear channels sound like they are far left and right, but not behind. Just an observation. I don't expect it to work perfectly like my own PRIR through the Realiser.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

I did some recording and well maybe the surround effect is still there, and the recording did sound like you listen to sound in a room/studio .. however the sound quality is very bad, even though I recorded on 24 bit and 48k bit rate the sound was awful. Im not sure if its the recording or just playing it back on a cheap soundcard. At the moment I can compare my recording with something like someone asking me through the phone to let him hear how awesome it sounds and then holding my phone against the headphones or something .. Ok its not actually that bad but it comes very close to this low quality sound.. I dont hear back my realiser sound at all, even though recorded at highest quality the overal sound is like a very low bitrate audio clip. I will do some more testing later but for now this is not worth posting. But im afraid it just dont work to try and listen to the realiser on a normal pc.. All the thickness and the frequences is just thin and dead and muffled/damped and narrow. I guess you really have to hear the realiser directly from the headphone outs/Amps outs.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #92 of 352

Hi darinf,

 

the Demo folder is building up in this moment.

 

5.1_surroundtests

Anyone have the opportunity to hear the realiser at work before buying the device.

 

Enough has been said for and against hearing with non-personal PRIRs ....

 

... but the potential of the realiser in this records resists all comparisons with same Dolby/DTS HP coded files (and the rest like AKG, ATI, etc. other simulations on MM players). I will put the Dolby HP files soon in the folder.

 

Faster way: Try it out direct in foobar, for example use DH wrapper in foobar and compare ...

 

https://sites.google.com/site/tastymousakas/

 

If someone have files from IRT-BRS processor, DSPSpeaker, Beyer Headzone or Studer, please download the original files from Swedish radio and render them through the devices. Maybe very interesting ...

 

Note: The files in the folder are made by console-plugin with foobar 0.9x (any player with pin-management works fine, wavelab is a little bit tricky).

 

SVS_simulation

I use the plugins+foobar  to render/convert my music with pc at any time without the realiser and use the plugins in cubase to make/mixing music in realtime in any virtual ambiance and in any localities, the realiser can't follow me ... but my laptop or my player ....

 

For that purpose I've taken impulse responses from realiser output with cubase host (it also plays the prepared shots/clicks), check quality, control start sync phase and fade outs and load the responses in real time response players shown in the pictures. Mixing the responses is possible, but not recommended in any case and the meaning of it all.

 

It's easy to use and works x-times faster than realiser output (rendering 5.1 + uad-limiter: 25 x realtime with Xenon QUAD at 2.66GHz).

 

There is no difference between the "simulation" and realiser because it is the realiser (TD mode)!

 

Training

To find again the center in front without realiser, I've build brain-training-testfiles for me with square wave bursts highpassed >500Hz/24dBoct. with 6 dB frequency boosts at 4-6 kHz (Blauert-bands), to improve hearing the rendered files. The used PRIR contains short reflection/reverb tails, it is a good training for your brain.

 

In a comsumer environment the acustic conditions are not like a measured, dry studio room, but more reflections/longer reverb tails improve hearing front center image. I've learned this by experience. If you use such PRIRs for rendering music, you reach fourth dimension in hearing portable HP-music.

 

But: If you have heard long time PRIRs, you have no problem to find center in a few moments in front of you, and fortunally: the "PRIR taste" for music alternates ... load new impulses ... render ... and have fun again!

 

It's enough explanations for the moment?

 

If there is an interest, I will prepare a instructionfile for pc-installation when I get the time off.

 

I hope, the little dropbox-textfile help to find out how it works.

 

Urgent: Your soundcard must be multichannel-typ to work with foobar, use ASIO driver preferably.
 

post #93 of 352

Not sure I understand what you said so instructions textfile would be nice.

post #94 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoogieWoogie View Post

Not sure I understand what you said so instructions textfile would be nice.

Amen to that!!

post #95 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlejle View Post

Hi darinf,

 

the Demo folder is building up in this moment.

 

5.1_surroundtests

Anyone have the opportunity to hear the realiser at work before buying the device.

 

Enough has been said for and against hearing with non-personal PRIRs ....

 

... but the potential of the realiser in this records resists all comparisons with same Dolby/DTS HP coded files (and the rest like AKG, ATI, etc. other simulations on MM players). I will put the Dolby HP files soon in the folder.

 

Faster way: Try it out direct in foobar, for example use DH wrapper in foobar and compare ...

 

https://sites.google.com/site/tastymousakas/

 

If someone have files from IRT-BRS processor, DSPSpeaker, Beyer Headzone or Studer, please download the original files from Swedish radio and render them through the devices. Maybe very interesting ...

 

Note: The files in the folder are made by console-plugin with foobar 0.9x (any player with pin-management works fine, wavelab is a little bit tricky).

 

SVS_simulation

I use the plugins+foobar  to render/convert my music with pc at any time without the realiser and use the plugins in cubase to make/mixing music in realtime in any virtual ambiance and in any localities, the realiser can't follow me ... but my laptop or my player ....

 

For that purpose I've taken impulse responses from realiser output with cubase host (it also plays the prepared shots/clicks), check quality, control start sync phase and fade outs and load the responses in real time response players shown in the pictures. Mixing the responses is possible, but not recommended in any case and the meaning of it all.

 

It's easy to use and works x-times faster than realiser output (rendering 5.1 + uad-limiter: 25 x realtime with Xenon QUAD at 2.66GHz).

 

There is no difference between the "simulation" and realiser because it is the realiser (TD mode)!

 

Training

To find again the center in front without realiser, I've build brain-training-testfiles for me with square wave bursts highpassed >500Hz/24dBoct. with 6 dB frequency boosts at 4-6 kHz (Blauert-bands), to improve hearing the rendered files. The used PRIR contains short reflection/reverb tails, it is a good training for your brain.

 

In a comsumer environment the acustic conditions are not like a measured, dry studio room, but more reflections/longer reverb tails improve hearing front center image. I've learned this by experience. If you use such PRIRs for rendering music, you reach fourth dimension in hearing portable HP-music.

 

But: If you have heard long time PRIRs, you have no problem to find center in a few moments in front of you, and fortunally: the "PRIR taste" for music alternates ... load new impulses ... render ... and have fun again!

 

It's enough explanations for the moment?

 

If there is an interest, I will prepare a instructionfile for pc-installation when I get the time off.

 

I hope, the little dropbox-textfile help to find out how it works.

 

Urgent: Your soundcard must be multichannel-typ to work with foobar, use ASIO driver preferably.
 

 

very interesting...........can you upload some impulse responses for PRIRs that you like?

 

and just to make sure i understand, you do not use the PRIR files directly with fubar, you use them in the realizer to generate the impulse responses?  if so, how are you capturing the impulse responses?


Edited by cat6man - 7/16/12 at 11:27am
post #96 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiritz View Post

Amen to that!!

Also, it is possible that if jlejle produced a text file in the original German it might be easier to understand for those who speak German or have the capability of translating.  I think there is some confusion as the result of admirable efforts to render these instructions in English.

post #97 of 352

added my measurement to dropbox:

 

5*Geithan 901 and unknown sub. I hope someone have compatible ears o2smile.gif
 

post #98 of 352
Thread Starter 

Hi jlejle!

 

That's some awesome stuff you're teaching us here, seems like you're a pro and really know  what you're doing with the Realiser! Im sure we can all learn alot from you. Welcome !

Can't wait to try the things you posted.

 

I just made some more simple test records by just recording the omaha beach landing from saving private ryan. I wanted to demonstrate people how all the surround channels sound in solo with incoming bullets from all sides. However when I listen it back it doesnt seem to work. Instead of listening to front left and then switch to back right there's no difference in the record. It just changes volume. Do I need that SVS Simulation for this you were talking about?

 

Anyways I really hope to post some stuff for people soon but at the moment its really not worth posting until Im able to come up with a better result.. All the sound is just narrow at the moment without any surround feeling at all. Unfortunately I dont have much time per day to keep trying different things so it could take a while again

 

=======================================

 

Quote:Originally Posted by travis-bickle View Post
 

added my measurement to dropbox:

 

5*Geithan 901 and unknown sub. I hope someone have compatible ears o2smile.gif

 

========================================

 

Awesome :)

 

Cant wait to try :)


Edited by Hoax - 7/17/12 at 9:19am
post #99 of 352

Hi Kiritz, Hoax, cat6man

 

Beg your pardon !!! about this technical stuff, is was a "rapid shot" to answer darinf, sorry!!!

 

But: to share this workflow can't be so wrong???

 

Please wait for easy instructions (have patience), at the moment these explanations are adressed to people who are familiar with terms like hosts, plugins, ASIO setups, etc.

 

The SVS simualtion/offline use is an offer to working people and people, who hats the "in-ear-sound" of HP and will take personal-PRIR music always with them like me, rather than waiting of recorded music direct through the realiser (- realiser is blocked for recording time ...!!!).

 

cat6man:

I use spike impulse file, sent it to realiser input and record the impulse response of the realiser output. Timing/output selection is set automatically by cubase host, it gives true sample position to eliminate realiser offset (15 ms). Realiser must be in TD mode.

 

Look at the dropbox, there are some files, later it is possible to generate this files from any PRIR with cubase preset, I hope.

 

PS: the files in 5.1_surroundtests shows realiser working on lossy formats and with common settings of sample rate and bit-depth. Feel free to add high-end recordings to the folder.

 

Yes, it's difficult and an effort for me, to answer just in time and in proper english ... be patience  ....  my ideas are "impacts" for an additional value of the great realiser ...

post #100 of 352

Hi Hoax,

 

no, a simulation is not necessary. The realiser reproduces the positions of the loudspeakers in the room, with all reflections, too.

 

The impulse record/calculation of each channel in PRIR contains only this information, with calculated trackerposition.

 

In SOLO mode you hear only this channel information, which is calculated and generates 2-ch PRIR, like a dummy-head recording.

 

Anyway your hear ever a tracked dummy/personal-head record only from of this position!

 

The mixing engineer of your record (5.1?) may use roomsimulations on all channels and leveling tricks to generate special effects like guns.

 

A direct LFE (.1) in this case with huge bass levels can irritate room feeling, use bass manager LFE cut off 63 Hz/bassredirection in player or realiser!

 

To have a good surround demo, your heavy gun shots must be sent through fully automatic 7.1/5.1-surround-panner plugins, ALL mode on.

 

Bye for now (realiser is waiting)!

post #101 of 352

Hi folks,

 

Longtime lurker - first time poster.

 

I do not (yet) own a SVS Realiser, but I have been doing a lot of research on it (I currently own AT AD700+JVC SU-DH1) , and I am very interested in the tech.  I am also interested in the possible exchange of PRIRs and that sort've thing, so I've been following this thread pretty closely.

 

In most of the documentation I've seen ... it says that the personal HRTF configuration only needs to be done once - is that true?

 

If so .. has anybody thought of doing an onsite PRIR recording in the style of a binaural (microphones in "blank" dummy head) recording?  That way, there would be no personal HRTF info taken/applied during the recording, but could it be applied after?  (that's why I was asking about whether your personal HRTF configuration only needs to be taken once/is stored somewhere and can be "applied" to any PRIR)

 

Sorry if I'm making little sense ... just been kicking around the idea in my head.  Feel free to educate me!

 

 

 

Cheers,

 


LK

post #102 of 352

Hi LiquidKaos,

 

Welcome!

 

In theory, you could use a dummy head, but the idea of the Realiser is that it records the sound for your particular ears when doing a PRIR. If you use a dummy head, then it's unlikely the Realiser will accurately reproduce the sound. Basically you could do the same thing by doing a binaural recording.

 

Yes, the HPEQ is a separate measurement, so that can be done for your headphones and your ears, but that's only part of the equation.

 

So, doing a PRIR with a dummy head or a real head will still result in a less than perfect PRIR because neither one is likely to match any other listener's ears. I suppose one could argue that a PRIR done with a dummy head might work better since it would be a more generic profile that might match more people a little closer, but definitely not match anyone. There's really no such thing as a "generic" ear. I am not sure how they model the shape of the ears on a binaural recording dummy head.

 

There is no way to apply personal information to a PRIR after the fact. The HPEQ is totally different than the PRIR. You can and do apply the HPEQ separately, but that's only half of the equation.

 

Now if Smyth could figure out how to measure your ear shape and then apply some algorithm to adjust the PRIR to compensate for your ear shape, THAT would be exciting.

 

-Darin

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidKaos View Post

Hi folks,

 

Longtime lurker - first time poster.

 

I do not (yet) own a SVS Realiser, but I have been doing a lot of research on it (I currently own AT AD700+JVC SU-DH1) , and I am very interested in the tech.  I am also interested in the possible exchange of PRIRs and that sort've thing, so I've been following this thread pretty closely.

 

In most of the documentation I've seen ... it says that the personal HRTF configuration only needs to be done once - is that true?

 

If so .. has anybody thought of doing an onsite PRIR recording in the style of a binaural (microphones in "blank" dummy head) recording?  That way, there would be no personal HRTF info taken/applied during the recording, but could it be applied after?  (that's why I was asking about whether your personal HRTF configuration only needs to be taken once/is stored somewhere and can be "applied" to any PRIR)

 

Sorry if I'm making little sense ... just been kicking around the idea in my head.  Feel free to educate me!

 

 

 

Cheers,

 


LK

post #103 of 352

most of your prirs are in rev 2 file format. so to load them i had to make a firmware update. before i do that i want to make sure, that my personal measurement in rev1 file format will still be readable. so there are no side-effects with old prirs. someone tested this?

post #104 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis-bickle View Post

most of your prirs are in rev 2 file format. so to load them i had to make a firmware update. before i do that i want to make sure, that my personal measurement in rev1 file format will still be readable. so there are no side-effects with old prirs. someone tested that.

Works fine with new firmware.

post #105 of 352

Does anyone know who posted the Spharon Excalibur PRIRs?  There are some changes which make the 2.0 and 5.1 unreadable by the Realiser -- error messages.  So if anyone has the original files and they work, it would be great to have them re-uploaded.  The 7.0 is quite good to my ears.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: High-end Audio Forum

Gear mentioned in this thread:

Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › Smyth SVS Realiser - PRIR Exchange Thread