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Smyth SVS Realiser - PRIR Exchange Thread - Page 15

post #211 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiritz View Post

Thanks much!  I am happy to pay a shop to do a measurement.  I've done this with several places.  I think I'll just try to get in touch with David White and see what he says.  In the meantime, yes, the localization effects I'm sure are very similar from one set of phones to another.  Being an audiophile type, I am very interested in the actual tonality/sound quality of the signal in addition to localization/sound stage.  Maybe I will wind up upgrading to better phones at some point and see what that is like.


One angle you can try is to find a hi-fi store that sells headphones. You can tell them you want to come in and do a measurement and then compare their various headphones when used with the Realiser. It would be an interesting exercise regardless so you can hear how other high end headphones compare with Stax. Sadly there isn't anywhere that's going to have Stax though.

 

I would also try to attend a headphone meet. The one I am organizing here is going to be a good chance for me to try different headphones with my Realiser. Sometimes people show up with some pretty high end rigs. You can then do the HPEQ fairly quickly without having to do a whole PRIR.

post #212 of 353

Good thoughts.  Where and when is your meet going to be?

post #213 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiritz View Post

Good thoughts.  Where and when is your meet going to be?


http://www.head-fi.org/t/624972/san-diego-head-fi-meet-saturday-november-3rd-2012

 

If anyone is in the area or can come down from LA, that would be great. Should be a fun meet.

post #214 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiritz View Post

Thanks much!  I am happy to pay a shop to do a measurement.  I've done this with several places.  I think I'll just try to get in touch with David White and see what he says.  In the meantime, yes, the localization effects I'm sure are very similar from one set of phones to another.  Being an audiophile type, I am very interested in the actual tonality/sound quality of the signal in addition to localization/sound stage.  Maybe I will wind up upgrading to better phones at some point and see what that is like.

For the record, Glenn Poors is not actually in Chicago, it is in Champaign, which is a couple of hours on I57 not too far off thr I72 and I57 exit.
post #215 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by blubliss View Post

Do you have the latest firmware installed, there are newer files that don't work with the older firmware?  Maybe a silly question.

It was a silly question if I were a smart guy, but I'm an idiot --- OF COURSE it was the firmware!   I updated and . . . .Yahoo!!!! Thanks!  Can't wait to try these now!  Plan to reciprocate soon!

post #216 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinf View Post


http://www.head-fi.org/t/624972/san-diego-head-fi-meet-saturday-november-3rd-2012

 

If anyone is in the area or can come down from LA, that would be great. Should be a fun meet.

I will definitely try to make it.  Do you think it would be best to bring my Realiser?  Also, I really won't have too much to share in terms of equipment.  Right now I simply use an Oppo 95 directly feeding the Realiser, which outputs to the standard Stax and amp setup. I am not using my stereo amp and rig at all.   It certainly would be useful though, because I could try out some other Stax gear.  Just don't want to be a mooch.

post #217 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiritz View Post

I will definitely try to make it.  Do you think it would be best to bring my Realiser?  Also, I really won't have too much to share in terms of equipment.  Right now I simply use an Oppo 95 directly feeding the Realiser, which outputs to the standard Stax and amp setup. I am not using my stereo amp and rig at all.   It certainly would be useful though, because I could try out some other Stax gear.  Just don't want to be a mooch.


It would be great if you can make it.

 

I would encourage you to bring your Realiser. The main reason is that I am going to try to have a small 2 channel speaker system set up in a separate room with my Realiser. This way anyone who wants a demo can have a quick PRIR measurement done to get the full effect. But while I am set up in the other room, maybe you could just let people listen to your Realiser without a custom PRIR. They will get the idea much like when we exchange PRIR's, some work well and some don't.

 

If you bring your Oppo, I can try to bring a small monitor for you to be able to play movies or audio through your Realiser.

 

As of right now, I am the only person bringing Stax gear. That may change as more people commit to coming. Of course you'll definitely have a chance to compare your Stax with my 407/323.

 

I'll put you down on the list and list your gear, just in case. No obligation to bring any of your gear if you don't want to though.

 

Sorry to hijack the thread. Further discussion on this topic should be done on the San Diego Meet thread.

 

Thanks,

-Darin

post #218 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiritz View Post

While I am at it, I have another question.  Despite differences between the PRIRs, I have sometimes thought that there are limitations using the STAX phones that I received with the Realiser.  I'd be interested in your thoughts about whether a more expensive STAX kit would make a big difference.  Lorr doesn't seem to think so.  I am just curious what accounts for the common variance I experience across PRIRs using the same phones.

 

Most of my listening with the Realiser is with the SR-009, and while I can't speak differences between other STAX models, I have compared the SR-009 to the HiFiMAN HE-6.  While the Realiser does good job of normalizing the sound signatures of various headphones to that of the measured sound system, the salient characteristics of these two headphones still come through.  However, the sonic characteristics of each contribute differently to overall sound reproduced by the Realizer.

For me, the SR-009 pairs particularly well with the Realiser precisely because it is such a fast, detailed and transparent transducer.  However, under normal listening conditions, many find these qualities produce an overly detailed, etched or bright signature with the SR-009.  I find that these inherent qualities allow the Realiser to produce a much more realistic virtual presentation.  The SR-009 takes on a chameleon like quality, where the additional speed and detail allow the headphone to be transformed (more closely) to match the signature of the target system.  With the Realiser, the sonic signature one would normally associate with the SR-009 completely disappears, and you are left with the sound of the speakers and the acoustics of the room.  The sound of the HE-6 with the Realiser, although very good, is not quite as convincing.  But the orthos do have more impact.

 

So, I can't really say how much of a difference you might hear with the flagship STAX.  I can say there is a difference between the SR-009 and the HE-6 with the Realiser, and the SR-009, for me, offers a more realistic presentation.

post #219 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzfan View Post

 

Most of my listening with the Realiser is with the SR-009, and while I can't speak differences between other STAX models, I have compared the SR-009 to the HiFiMAN HE-6.  While the Realiser does good job of normalizing the sound signatures of various headphones to that of the measured sound system, the salient characteristics of these two headphones still come through.  However, the sonic characteristics of each contribute differently to overall sound reproduced by the Realizer.

For me, the SR-009 pairs particularly well with the Realiser precisely because it is such a fast, detailed and transparent transducer.  However, under normal listening conditions, many find these qualities produce an overly detailed, etched or bright signature with the SR-009.  I find that these inherent qualities allow the Realiser to produce a much more realistic virtual presentation.  The SR-009 takes on a chameleon like quality, where the additional speed and detail allow the headphone to be transformed (more closely) to match the signature of the target system.  With the Realiser, the sonic signature one would normally associate with the SR-009 completely disappears, and you are left with the sound of the speakers and the acoustics of the room.  The sound of the HE-6 with the Realiser, although very good, is not quite as convincing.  But the orthos do have more impact.

 

So, I can't really say how much of a difference you might hear with the flagship STAX.  I can say there is a difference between the SR-009 and the HE-6 with the Realiser, and the SR-009, for me, offers a more realistic presentation.

Thanks very much for your insights, jazzfan.  I suppose the only way to find out is to try to find a venue in which to compare various headphones.  Or maybe I'll just have to take the plunge and purchase the next level STAX.

post #220 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinf View Post


It would be great if you can make it.

 

I would encourage you to bring your Realiser. The main reason is that I am going to try to have a small 2 channel speaker system set up in a separate room with my Realiser. This way anyone who wants a demo can have a quick PRIR measurement done to get the full effect. But while I am set up in the other room, maybe you could just let people listen to your Realiser without a custom PRIR. They will get the idea much like when we exchange PRIR's, some work well and some don't.

 

If you bring your Oppo, I can try to bring a small monitor for you to be able to play movies or audio through your Realiser.

 

As of right now, I am the only person bringing Stax gear. That may change as more people commit to coming. Of course you'll definitely have a chance to compare your Stax with my 407/323.

 

I'll put you down on the list and list your gear, just in case. No obligation to bring any of your gear if you don't want to though.

 

Sorry to hijack the thread. Further discussion on this topic should be done on the San Diego Meet thread.

 

Thanks,

-Darin

I think that if I can make it I definitely should bring the Oppo and Realiser.  I now have about 40 PRIRs stored, so people could play around with different ones and likely find a few that work for them.  For me, every single one of them provides an excellent out of ear experience, although some are a little better than others.  This was surprising to me, as the default smyth 7.1 was not nearly as good.  The main difference is the tonal qualities and depth of the image.  The Revelation system wins in this regard, along with a few I did on my own ears, especially the Peak system from Audio High in Mountain View.  But I am eager to try these out with different phones.  I'll tune into the meet thread.

post #221 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzfan View Post

 

Most of my listening with the Realiser is with the SR-009, and while I can't speak differences between other STAX models, I have compared the SR-009 to the HiFiMAN HE-6.  While the Realiser does good job of normalizing the sound signatures of various headphones to that of the measured sound system, the salient characteristics of these two headphones still come through.  However, the sonic characteristics of each contribute differently to overall sound reproduced by the Realizer.

For me, the SR-009 pairs particularly well with the Realiser precisely because it is such a fast, detailed and transparent transducer.  However, under normal listening conditions, many find these qualities produce an overly detailed, etched or bright signature with the SR-009.  I find that these inherent qualities allow the Realiser to produce a much more realistic virtual presentation.  The SR-009 takes on a chameleon like quality, where the additional speed and detail allow the headphone to be transformed (more closely) to match the signature of the target system.  With the Realiser, the sonic signature one would normally associate with the SR-009 completely disappears, and you are left with the sound of the speakers and the acoustics of the room.  The sound of the HE-6 with the Realiser, although very good, is not quite as convincing.  But the orthos do have more impact.

 

So, I can't really say how much of a difference you might hear with the flagship STAX.  I can say there is a difference between the SR-009 and the HE-6 with the Realiser, and the SR-009, for me, offers a more realistic presentation.

I have compared several STAX models with the Realiser.  When the realiser first came out, some spoke of it as a "headphone killer" -- it was said to level the playing field among headphones because its sonic qualities trumped those of individual headphones.  I used the realiser with 404LEs for a long time (after getting measured with 202s at AIX) until I found myself in Tokyo comparing demo models.  Of course, the 009s -- without the realiser -- completely blow away the 404LEs, even standing in the middle of an electronics store.  I dashed off an email to Lorr, who said that better headphones = better sound, even with the realiser.  I balked then, but a year later I took the plunge on the 009s.  And yes, side by side, 404LEs v. 009s, the difference with the realiser is as stark as it is without the realiser.  Incredible detail, incredible speed, incredible ability to create a virtual space.  

post #222 of 353

Hi everyone,

 

I just uploaded another PRIR measurement from a local hi-fi store. I tried to get him to let me do more than one room, but he said I could come back another day. Oh well, at least I got to measure one room.

 

I had a strange issue with the initial PRIR being very rolled off in the high end much like my previous PRIR attempt. It was so apparent that I thought something might be wrong with my microphones. I then did another measurement, but did a new mic insertion. The second time, the sound was completely different. The highs were much closer to the real thing.

 

Unfortunately with my 2nd attempt, for some reason the Realiser changed to pilot mode instead of azimuth mode. I was finding that the settings changed back to some sort of default even though I never changed them. Weird. I had to go back and recheck all the settings like switching from 3 second sweeps to 12 second sweeps, etc.

 

So I did a 3rd mic insertion and measurement. This time everything worked beautifully.

 

I took pictures of my ears for all three mic insertions and after reviewing the photos, I can't tell any significant differences from one to the other. I am still at a loss as to the difference in the PRIR's.

 

Hold on, I just realized that I did make a significant change from measurement 1 to 2. When I took the mics out after measurement 1, I heard some 60 cycle ground loop hum. I was going from the Realiser output to the pre-amp using long unbalanced RCA cables. To eliminate the hum, I then switched to a much shorter RCA cable and went into a unbalanced to balanced active line level converter box so I could go into the preamp via balanced audio cables. This worked and there was no longer any trace of hum or noise.

 

I am not sure if that made the difference or not, but I am guessing so. It could also be my long (25ft) unbalanced RCA cable that might be causing audio problems. I didn't have time to check the sound of the actual speakers using my long cables and the unbalanced input on the preamp.

 

Anyway, the PRIR file and info is in the Dropbox folder : "Darinf/Stereo Unlimited Sonus Faber 2.0"

 

Here's the info for the system:

 

Quote:
Stereo Unlimited System - http://www.stereo-unlimited.com
Sonus Faber Room
PRIR MEasurement done on September 28th, 2012 by Darin Fong

2.0 Channel System:

Sonus Faber Elipsa speakers - http://www.sumikoaudio.net/sonus/prod_elipsa.htm - $20,800/pair
Aesthetix Juptier Io Tube Preampwith Volume Controls and 2nd input  - http://www.aesthetix.net/jupiter.php?product=io - $9000
Aesthetix IO power supply - $3,000
Aesthetix Saturn Atlas Stereo Amplifier - http://www.aesthetix.net/saturn.php?product=atlas - $8,700

You can find picutres of the actual system in the DropBox folder with this file.

I generated a 7.1 PRIR from their 2.0 channel system.

I have not had a chance to listen to it at length, but from initial impressions, I think I may have a new favorite PRIR... Not as much bass as the Audio Revelation/Magico's, but still great sounding.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

-Darin

 

P.S. Now after listening and comparing this PRIR to the Audio Revelation PRIR, I think I like this one better. I don't know if I got lucky, or the speakers were just that good.

 

I also picked up a pair of Koss PortaPro's and modified them with the Kramer mod. I am blown away by the sound especially when you factor in the fact that I paid $40 for them! I think they will work well enough to bring them when I do PRIR measurements instead of the Stax. They are good enough to determine if I have a good PRIR or not.


Edited by darinf - 9/29/12 at 2:17am
post #223 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by West726 View Post

 And yes, side by side, 404LEs v. 009s, the difference with the realiser is as stark as it is without the realiser.  Incredible detail, incredible speed, incredible ability to create a virtual space.  

You need to put comments like that in a "spoiler alert". I don't want to know how much better the 009's are! (My wallet can't take it.)

post #224 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinf View Post

Hi everyone,

 

I just uploaded another PRIR measurement from a local hi-fi store. I tried to get him to let me do more than one room, but he said I could come back another day. Oh well, at least I got to measure one room.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks again, Darin.  I just did an initial try out of your most recent PRIR and it is excellent.  I would say for me it's very comparable to the Revelation.  I'll listen a bunch more before coming to any firm conclusions, but it's clearly very good.  Thanks for sharing this!

post #225 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiritz View Post

Thanks again, Darin.  I just did an initial try out of your most recent PRIR and it is excellent.  I would say for me it's very comparable to the Revelation.  I'll listen a bunch more before coming to any firm conclusions, but it's clearly very good.  Thanks for sharing this!

Yes, somewhat comparable to the Revelation, but on multichannel recordings I hear broader soundstage, more diffuse vocals (less confined to the center channel), MUCH more detail, more alive, more bass, near-perfect drum reproduction . . . this is easily my favorite.  Most PRIRs make me so happy to hear a speaker sound instead of just a headphone sound, but this one puts me beyond the room of speakers.  Just wow.  Thanks, Darin.  (Sorry to not have given you a spoiler alert earlier on the 009s.  Pretend I made it up!)

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