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post #136 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldoon View Post

sorry dear martin, but how should I use them? I think dear graeme can help!

Sorry just a joke my friend!


Edited by our martin - 6/1/12 at 8:20am
post #137 of 167
Thread Starter 

@our martin

Thanks for all of your helpful replies.

 

 

@extrabigmehdi

Thanks a million, dear friend.

these graphs and your analysis were really great.I'm doing the same thing with others headphone too, but I have some questions.
 

 

Quote:
Anyways between the  k701 & dt880 600 ohms, you are trading a lack of bass / sub bass (k701), against better balanced bass...

 


&

 

Quote:
Based on curves only, my guess, is that the main reason to get 600 ohm version of dt800, than regular, is bass impact.

 



How did you find out that K701 has a better balanced bass?

 

&

 

their line until 7000 is so similar. How did you find 600 ohms version has more bass impact? and graph shows that 600 ohms is more treblish but when people want to recommend a treble modified version of DT880 250 ohms, they mention to 600 Ohms version. How is it possible?

post #138 of 167
Thread Starter 

and also, can someone explain, why Denon D7000 has such a difference with HD800 & Audeze LCD-2 & even with Dt880 and D5000? I can't understand it.

 

Thanks.

 

1123.png

1123446.png

post #139 of 167

Headroom centers all its graphs around 1khz, which really isn't an ideal comparison of the headphones.  

post #140 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

Headroom centers all its graphs around 1khz, which really isn't an ideal comparison of the headphones.  

 

Dunno, one could argue it makes for easier comparision as frequency response is about the balance of the whole range. If bass is at say 0dB or 5dB is irrelevant, it's how it compares to 300Hz+ range that matters.

 

I think the average frequency amplitude would be ideal to center it to though (discluding at least sub 20Hz range as well as 20kHz+ range because it'll skew open vs closed comparision a bit) and not what it happens to be at 1kHz so yea I see your point.


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 6/1/12 at 8:23am
post #141 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by cartograph View Post

@our martin

How did you find out that K701 has a better balanced bass?

No, no, no, sorry if I  didn't speak properly, I  meant the contrary. Let's reformulate it :
K701 - > lack of bass

dt880 600 ohms -> good  balanced bass , but an obvious treble peak near 10k.


Note : the k701 also have a peak near 10khz,  but it stands out less, especially when you compare it to the curve surrounding it.

You have to realize that not everyone love the k701, mainly  because it is bright, lacking bass,...  And the moderator unkle erik, literally bashed them , saying they sound "plasticy". It is very common , that when someone don't like the k701, then they are told to buy a better amp / source.  Hence the myth "they are hard to drive". (By the way there's a similar story with hd650) .

If I  rely on graph, the Q701, seems to offer more bass than k701 :

akg.jpg
 

 

Quote:
How did you find 600 ohms version has more bass impact?

It's by looking at square response. Let's say that the bass is of better "quality" if you prefer.

Quote:

and graph shows that 600 ohms is more treblish , but when people want to recommend a treble modified version of DT880 250 ohms, they mention to 600 Ohms version. How is it possible?

The treble peak near 10 k, is sligtly more important for 600 ohm. But I notice also  that the

treble is more pleasing in the 10k-20k range.

Anyway, there are lengthy discussion, regarding if  it's worth it to get 600 ohm version over 250 ohm version. The difference might not be so obvious, so if you want something easy to drive at decent volume get 250 ohm , otherwise the 600 ohm  version  is slightly better, but this is even debated.
 


Edited by extrabigmehdi - 6/1/12 at 9:50am
post #142 of 167

@TMRaven

Quote:
Headroom centers all its graphs around 1khz, which really isn't an ideal comparison of the headphones. 
I would choose the 3.5 khz frequency, because it's where the ear is the most sensitive (see equal loudness curve, google it) . Unfortunately the region near 3.5khz often have a hump  with different headphones, and near 1khz it's usually flatter. So 1kz is perhaps better.

Except that the d7000 have an obvious bump near 1khz.  So if you correct this bump, and re-adjust curve, the d7000 is merely lacking bass in the 10-30hz region , which is not very audible.


Edited by extrabigmehdi - 6/1/12 at 9:26am
post #143 of 167
Thread Starter 

@extrabigmehdi

 

Thank you for your detailed answers.

 

If we want to talk based on graphs, as far as I learned in this 24 hours (I'm not sure at all)(I only talk about my 5 top choices):

 

11.png22.png

Hifiman HE-400:                                                               

HIFIMAN HE-40011.JPG

 

Sennheiser HD600:

HD60011.JPG

 

Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro 600 Ohms:                                    

DT 880 600 ohms11.JPG

AKG Q701:

Q7000.JPG

Shure SRH-1440:

1440.JPG

only based on Frequency response graphs:

DT880, HD650 & HE-400 are winners. But each one in a limited range.

HE-400 in part of bass sounds range, DT880 in second part of bass sounds and also in mids & HD650 in treble sounds range.

 

Am I right?

post #144 of 167
Thread Starter 

and it is 30 Hz & 300 Hz square waves of HE-400:

HIFIMAN HE-400.JPG

post #145 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by cartograph View Post

only based on Frequency response graphs:

DT880, HD650 & HE-400 are winners. But each one in a limited range.

HE-400 in part of bass sounds range, DT880 in second part of bass sounds and also in mids & HD650 in treble sounds range.

 

Am I right?

We already know these are "winners", these are among the most recommended "mid-fi" headphones . Hd650 being the most popular.
These are speculations from graph, but you can't assess sound quality based only on graph.
It's just like saying that a meal have enough salt or too much salt, but doesn't say if you'd like the meal by itself.

The fact is that all these headphone would sound more balanced than the headphone you already own by a margin.

 

The hd650 has  the best frequence "balance" overall, I'd say even over the hd600 (by speculating with graph, but I'm contradicting lot of people).

Also the highs  from hd650 have a reputation for being non fatiguing , but some people are complaining they are lacking.

The dt880 is very close to hd650 (according to freq balance) , except that it does have more sub bass below 30hz , and also a  treble peak at  10khz , this last difference could be the main reason some people avoid them.

 

The he-400 has most likely the best "quality of bass", based on the single fact that it doesn't use the same technology than other headphones you cited.
It is an orthodynamic, and one of the few "affordable" orthodynamic on the market. There's also fostex that offers cheap orthodynamic, but it seems that only if you do some physical modifications that they become interesting ( if you want to experiment ...) .

However quality bass doesn't mean it would be balanced. Somehow the freq balance of he-400 reminds me the d7000, with the bump near 1 khz.
Unlike the d7000, the he400 is much less comfy, you'd see some people complaining of the weight of he400 on their head (but the audeze lcd2, seem in another league, in term of pain).

I wouldn't take the srh1440, it looks like a "crippled" srh1840. I've seen some pics of driver, and for the srh1440 shure has put a small hole in front of the driver  that is hindering air flow. It is obvious , just by looking at internals, that the srh1840 would sound better.


Edited by extrabigmehdi - 6/1/12 at 7:03pm
post #146 of 167

I'm pretty sure the 1khz bump in the HE-400 is largely a result of the pleather pads.  With the velours most of that excess energy is taken away.

post #147 of 167
Thread Starter 

@extrabigmehdi

 

Thanks.

Quote:
These are speculations from graph, but you can't assess sound quality based only on graph.

I know I can't. I only wanted to make things a little bit more objective.

 

@TMRaven

 

Thanks.

--------------------------------------------

I'm curious to know if amping or changing pads of DT880 can help it to sound a little bit less treblish or not?

post #148 of 167

Here are more speculation. I  looked at website goldenears.net, and I found very interesting the property description, at the end of each reviewed headphone. From what I've understood these ratings are a combination from interpretation of measurements, and subjective experience. But where are other factors such like soundstage, speed, instrument separation ?

Warning: not all headphone models are reviewed at goldenear website, and I kept only models I found interesting.
 

Here's how the "perfect" headphone, would look to me.

ideal.jpg

What matters the most for me is clarity (first line). I think  this mean how "clean" the headphone is, and it's the main area where the hd800 impressed me.
I'm disregarding second , and third line, I'm not sure I understand them well.
Treble relative to midrange & bass relative to midrange are indication to see if the headphone have a neutral frequency response.
I think good treble is a good balance between smoothness and aggressiveness, if it's too smooth it might be boring ( a matter of taste) , if it's too rough, it  lacks refinement and it's fatiguing. However I  can't imagine how you'd want more "fluid" bass, I  guess bass texture means impact, so I set bass texture to max.

 


Most "perfect" headphones :

I have the hd800, so I like to use them as an example. The hd800 has almost everything right , except that it is too bright.

hd800.jpg

 

Otherwise at the budget price, I will mention an IEM, the altec lansing im716. They seem pretty good, but unfortunately discontinued. They are based on the etymotic ER4. The ER4 are marketed as being the most accurate IEM, I'm tempted to believe it (at least at their price range).

im716.jpg
 


Best clarity at budget price:

The D860 seem to have very good clarity, but unfortunately they are not neutral. If you compare to  the hd800, it seems there's a "little" gap if  you can accept the brightness (otherwise just do an eq). If you look at reviews, they are limited, but positive.

dt860.jpg
 


Most neutral headphones at budget :

The hd600 seems the winner if I rely on goldenear's assessment. Just after the hd600, there's the hd650 and the dt800 (600 ohm version).

 

hd600.jpg

 

Now, the only reason to take the hd650 over the hd600, is to have slightly more clarity :

h650.jpg

And the only reason to take the dt880 600 ohms version over the hd600, is that you don't like the overly smooth treble from hd600 (merzbow is as innocuous as a new age cd) . However you are loosing in other areas.

dt880-600-ohms.jpg
 


Best bass & high "texture":

The k701 is great, because it succeeds both at providing bass impact, and very well tuned treble texture.
Unfortunately they are far from neutral.

K701.jpg
 


Best bass impact:
The d2000 offers best bass impact at budget price. They are not neutral , however they are not excessively far from neutral.
Their treble is as smooth as for sennheiser though. This is a quite popular headphone, especially from "bass heads":

d2000.jpg

Note : the d2000 are discontinued, pick one before it's too late.



That's all folks !
Again these are speculation. The srh940 doesn't seem to be special in any category, when I look at these assessments, but I'm still proud of them angry_face.gif.

post #149 of 167
Thread Starter 

Wow!!! thank you.

 

I've never heard of this site before. It's graphs are great.

 

But some of it's reviews seem strange. For example if you count negative points (based on your criterion) of Audeze lcd-2 & Beyerdynamic T5, it's even more than Audio-technica M50 (14.5 negative point against 13.5 negative points of M50) or Sony Z1000 has got 26.5 negative point against 18 negative points of Superlux HD681.

 

and unfortunately it doesn't have graphs of HE-400 and Q701.

 

in all of reviews that I've read at this site, HD800 with only 2.5 negative points is at the top of their list. DT880,K701 & T1 are the followers (with 9 negative points / HD 600 has got 9.5 negative points).

post #150 of 167

If you like bright treble then yeah, hd800 only has 2.5 negative points.  If you like neutral treble then it has 7.5 negative points.  Inner fidelity has better graphs of most every headphone-- including HE-400.

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