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post #196 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

 

There were $75 1TB HDD's but the performance of them weren't satisfactory.

 

Most of them are fine these days even the LP's and Green's, it's not like he will notice the speed difference or he is an enthusiast. He could use a normal 1TB for now and if he decides to go for speed in the future he can grab an SSD.

post #197 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

 

Most of them are fine these days even the LP's and Green's, it's not like he will notice the speed difference or he is an enthusiast. He could use a normal 1TB for now and if he decides to go for speed in the future he can grab an SSD.

I disagree with that. I would never buy an LP or a greeen but many were 5400 rpm or had bad actual reviews for speed. 7200rpm drivers can differ from 50MB/s transfer to 80MB/s transfer which is a difference.

 

He was within $20 of his literaly max budget and he needed to buy Windows. I still would not have gone for a $75 1TB installation at that time of the choices. There is a sale today of some decent ones I would have chosen but at the time of the choice there were only 2 that looked ok and those had a few warning not worth it marks on them.

 

Plus if you take a look right now. Most are $100 plus. $75 is not going to cut it. A good 500GB as opposed to questionable if even findable $75 1TB was the issue.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&N=-1&isNodeId=1&Description=1TB&x=0&y=0

 

The first drive we chose was 1TB one platter for $110. His budget got cut so we had to make room.

post #198 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

I disagree with that. I would never buy an LP or a greeen but many were 5400 rpm or had bad actual reviews for speed. 7200rpm drivers can differ from 50MB/s transfer to 80MB/s transfer which is a difference.

 

 

 

I have 5 Seagate LP's and 2 Green's in my main system (without the exception of my SSD's and normal Barracuda's) and as an enthusiast I've done heaps of Crystal Mark comparison's using various controllers and RAID controllers both from aftermarket controller cards and using onboard Intel controllers. The WD Green's run at 7200RPM but most of them are only slightly crippled due to there cache of being only 16MB or 24MB onboard controller. Also depending on the system, my Green's 2TB vs my normal 7200RPM Barracuda 2TB's, read speed is not so much different mostly 15mb/s, write for my Barracuda is 98mb/s, the Green is 86 and this is using 4 passes of 1000MB transfer for the test.

 

The Seagate LP's (run's at 5400RPM) are roughly 20mb/s slower in write and read speeds compared to my Barracuda, the LP's I use are from early last year, some very late Dec 2010 just before the Taiwan flood's happened and the hdd prices were raised to 2 fold of there current prices. Another factor that contributes is what the main controller chip is being used on the hdd pcb's. If I remember JMicron's are usually the slower one's (same result for SSD's as well)

 

Of course real time benchmarking/results are different to synthetic results, I can guarrantee that transferring a 1GB compressed single file will be only 10meg/s slower then a regular Barracuda.

 

But all the above drive's fail against my Cheetah 10k's, my 2 OCZ Vertex Plus in RAID 0 and my 4x 4TB WD Black's in my HP Microserver.

 

Low power and Green drive's these day's are improving and offer less of a huge bottleneck against regular 7200rpm's high (platter rotation speed doesn't mean it's faster, my Hitachi 7200RPM's are slower then my LP's and Green's), it also depends on the controller used, onboard configuration used on the motherboard, and the cache buffer memory.


Edited by DefQon - 5/22/12 at 5:40pm
post #199 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

 

I have 5 Seagate LP's and 2 Green's in my main system (without the exception of my SSD's and normal Barracuda's) and as an enthusiast I've done heaps of Crystal Mark comparison's using various controllers and RAID controllers both from aftermarket controller cards and using onboard Intel controllers. The WD Green's run at 7200RPM but most of them are only slightly crippled due to there cache of being only 16MB or 24MB onboard controller. Also depending on the system, my Green's 2TB vs my normal 7200RPM Barracuda 2TB's, read speed is not so much different mostly 15mb/s, write for my Barracuda is 98mb/s, the Green is 86 and this is using 4 passes of 1000MB transfer for the test.

 

The Seagate LP's (run's at 5400RPM) are roughly 20mb/s slower in write and read speeds compared to my Barracuda, the LP's I use are from early last year, some very late Dec 2010 just before the Taiwan flood's happened and the hdd prices were raised to 2 fold of there current prices. Another factor that contributes is what the main controller chip is being used on the hdd pcb's. If I remember JMicron's are usually the slower one's (same result for SSD's as well)

 

Of course real time benchmarking/results are different to synthetic results, I can guarrantee that transferring a 1GB compressed single file will be only 10meg/s slower then a regular Barracuda.

 

But all the above drive's fail against my Cheetah 10k's, my 2 OCZ Vertex Plus in RAID 0 and my 4x 4TB WD Black's in my HP Microserver.

 

Low power and Green drive's these day's are improving and offer less of a huge bottleneck against regular 7200rpm's high (platter rotation speed doesn't mean it's faster, my Hitachi 7200RPM's are slower then my LP's and Green's), it also depends on the controller used, onboard configuration used on the motherboard, and the cache buffer memory.

Of course but the problem with anything these days is....it's on the net. I can't take it and benchmark it and there are only a few reviews on HDD's. I took the HDD's that had guaranteed and approved enthusiast actual testing and put that on the top of my list. 

 

I couldn't guarantee any of the $80 Green drives were any good. And now that I look at the list again. The 1TB drive I saw for approx $80 is gone

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148697

 

This is the CHEAPEAST 1TB drive on Newegg. Mshenay didn't have the extra $40 to get the 1TB...any 1TB. We took the $50 and put it into the GPU :) We initially had a $150 GPU but a beautiful being called the AMD 6950 2GiB OC edition with dual fans for $200 caught my eye. I brought it to Mshenay's eye's and he fell in love...and as the story goes. When we choose the $200 deal we had to shave off $50 SOMEHOW....we had already streamlined the rig so the Hard Drive space went. With it we got a 500GB drive with semi proven results that was all on one platter for theoretical speed(untested so theoretical at the moment).

 

Thanks for pointing out your real tests. I may begin to look at them, but I don't do too many multiple drives so the greenies may have to wait.

 

We really got the 500GB drive for about $40. We bundled many items together and got so so so much money off. Most of the drives and HDD and motherboards I liked were in the bundle list!

 

So I hope you can see the rationale. No other $200 GPU atm is at around the same price with the same performance. And due to $90 at least for a 1TB HDD(newegg only, sure there are drives all over the net, but shipping costs on other sites as it wouldn't be bundled would offset the cost of buying a more expensive one at newegg and even if there was free shipping that would limit the drives we could get on another site like Tiger Direct plus the Newegg parts will arrive in 3 days and you can't do much without a hard drive)

 

Now how's that for a rationale wink_face.gif

 

For a $790 desktop armed with an mid level ivy bridge, mid level highest chipset number and well known motherboard, one platter 500GB HDD, an OC editoin 2GiB 6950, very popular award winning case with 3 fans, 600W modular PSU from a name brand and ASUS dvd drive all for $790 is probably one of the best deals I currently have heard.

 

Granted the CPU is not an unlocked edition and the heatsink for the CPU is stock, but that's not a problem.

post #200 of 328

It's a not bad system for the price, since he needs a system soon for now, there is no point waiting. You do get extremely good deal's that pop out now and then (like when the GTX590's were only for $300 from $900), another good time to purchase parts is Black Friday sales.

post #201 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

It's a not bad system for the price, since he needs a system soon for now, there is no point waiting. You do get extremely good deal's that pop out now and then (like when the GTX590's were only for $300 from $900), another good time to purchase parts is Black Friday sales.

There is that but one thing I have learned as an enthusiast and Apple fanboy........f waiting. The moment you wait for that you will get news of something even better in the development. You want something? Sure if something is comming in a month and is major than wait. I would wait a month for ivy bridge. But seriously. Need it? Buy it. 

 

I could say yes I could get better parts half a year from now or that. But seriously. For the time being, there is no more waiting. Someone needs? I give them the best parts list their budget can afford ATM and for an $800 desktop that prioritizes speed and reliability with dashes of asthetics. It's hard to argue. I could have thrown in a $30 PSU and $30 RAM or a $50 Mobo. And a $150 CPU and then a $500 GPU. But that is just crazy.

 

There is no better GPU for the price of $200 atm better than 6950. Check

The i5 3550 is faster than it's last gen Sandy Bridge competitor and is newer and just as expensive so there is no need to get Sandy Bridge. 3550 is a great balance.

RAM is $45 and is Corsair Vengence series with a set reputation and reliability along with a great dash of Asthetics. Check

PSU was $40 and was a modular OCZ brand PSU with a developed reputation. Check

Mobo was one that was chosen out, out of about....many boards over the course of days of research and is a balance of reliability, ports, features and performance and was in a combo so it was a lot cheaper than the set price. Check.

 

Anyway. Yes there are times to wait, but it's time to put the urge down now. If it's a short time and you want to see. That is great, but for a current atm rig that Mshenay wants and doesnt' want to wait for a deal to come up for and save $50. This is the system..and it is a $800 desktop.

 

gs1000.gif 

 

Many enthusiasts will still wait, but I will balance it out and see if it's worth it now.

post #202 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

There is that but one thing I have learned as an enthusiast and Apple fanboy........f waiting. The moment you wait for that you will get news of something even better in the development. You want something? Sure if something is comming in a month and is major than wait. I would wait a month for ivy bridge. But seriously. Need it? Buy it. 

 

 

 

Many enthusiasts will still wait, but I will balance it out and see if it's worth it now.

 

I use to be like you, not wait for anything buy the top of the line processors, gfx card and motherboard as soon as it comes out and then upgrade 4 months later, I got over this stage because it was driving me broke. So I just stopped years ago and got myself the first gen i7 socket 1366 6 core cpu and maxed out my motherboard, nothing stresses my computer atm, so I'm fine with it. All my money spent is on petrol, expenses/bills and headgear, not so much head gear now since I've got flagship products, but that itching urge to upgrade will swamp me soon again.

post #203 of 328
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

There are others, I just threw out a popular one. Intel should have a program that does what AMD Overdrive does as well so it shouldn't be a problem.

 

Unlike laptops and regular OEM desktops. Well made and cooled self built PC's don't have temps that jump around. Laptops jump around a lot! 52C on a laptop is ok but most go to 70C and over.

It's an old Desktop

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

So has he purchased/ordered the parts yet?

 

Everything look's fine except that 500GB hard drive and the graphics card, after rebate on Newegg, you can get some 1TB's similarly priced to the 500GB. Granted saying that you can buy a used, open box or refurbished 6950 for around $140 if you look around.

Herp Dero you guys it's a 750 GB drive not 500GB, are you insane xD 500gbs would drive me nuts

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

 

I use to be like you, not wait for anything buy the top of the line processors, gfx card and motherboard as soon as it comes out and then upgrade 4 months later, I got over this stage because it was driving me broke. So I just stopped years ago and got myself the first gen i7 socket 1366 6 core cpu and maxed out my motherboard, nothing stresses my computer atm, so I'm fine with it. All my money spent is on petrol, expenses/bills and headgear, not so much head gear now since I've got flagship products, but that itching urge to upgrade will swamp me soon again.

This is my first build and I've reaserached builds OVER and OVER and OVER again, So might as well MAX out my budget asap so I can stop waiting, I've been waiting about 2 years for a rig like this! Trust me I'm a waiter by ALL means, but right now I have 0... my PC can barely run head-fi threads and Foo Bar... plus it's been acting funny so It badly needs replacing

 

Heck last year I almost got a Top of the line Used rig from a friend of mine, he was running DUal GPU's... BUT I couldn't afford it so instead of being his monkey slave for a few months he told me to wait a year or so and I could easily buy a rig as powerful as his for the same price new... which I did

 

Still thanks for you input! NOW let's get to the BUILD tips. mom Thinks I can't put a processor on a mother board... I disagree! Now let's watch as many videos as we can so we can DO IT RIGHT. I'm heading to our shop tommorow to gather all the Parts I need for the build, If I can't find something then I'll buy a tool kit offline. There are a few nice $20 ones I can choose from.

 

In addition I'll be getting the OS as well [he never sells em so he's happy to be rid of it] 

 

But as Bowei said... you couldn't build a better rig today if your tried... but you could tommorow :3, but tommorows has been coming for years now TODAY is the day to buy and Tommorow is the day to start saving for a COMPLETE Overhauled system. I didn't make much room for upgrades in this. More Ram and a bigger HDD at the most. Plus the Gpu I got will do WHAT EVER I ask of it, I've been playing games of lowest GFX for years so uhh MID LEVEL looks FREAKING AWESOME ;3 and thankfully I can run Ultra

 

Anyways, BUILD TIPS BUILD TIPS, WITH A FOCUS ON MOUNTING MY CPU! BEST way to put a CPU on a mother board... GO! I'm off to watch videos to hopefully answer that question! 

post #204 of 328
Like me? Haha. I meant stuf like this. I built my own personal rig and havent TOUCHED it in 2 and a half years. As in upgrade.

I didnt mean to blindly buy. I meant that waiting was a continuous cycle. As of right now it is a great time to buy. Black friday is near "refresh" day. So getting this rig right after ivy bridge just launched was great smily_headphones1.gif

I dont need everything really. I have built multiple rigs for people and have spent almost $7.5K on building rigs now. I dont blindly buy but look at time and lrice. Waiting for deal days is sometimes useless and waiting for more "news" can be as well. Its not 100% useless but you have to look at the comparison and if its worth it. Ok i really dont like using the word useless. It doesnt fit what i mean. Hopefully you understand.... We enthusiasts have a lot lot of friction smily_headphones1.gif
post #205 of 328
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

Like me? Haha. I meant stuf like this. I built my own personal rig and havent TOUCHED it in 2 and a half years. As in upgrade.
I didnt mean to blindly buy. I meant that waiting was a continuous cycle. As of right now it is a great time to buy. Black friday is near "refresh" day. So getting this rig right after ivy bridge just launched was great smily_headphones1.gif
I dont need everything really. I have built multiple rigs for people and have spent almost $7.5K on building rigs now. I dont blindly buy but look at time and lrice. Waiting for deal days is sometimes useless and waiting for more "news" can be as well. Its not 100% useless but you have to look at the comparison and if its worth it. Ok i really dont like using the word useless. It doesnt fit what i mean. Hopefully you understand.... We enthusiasts have a lot lot of friction smily_headphones1.gif

Of course, there is 100 ways to do the same thing really, it all depends on you as a person and your goals as a consumer or in our case and Enuthiest. I'd say within 5 days we built the best system we could! No prio knowledge of anything just HOURS of reaserach! And it shipped today, no issues with price change or parts!

 

I've got $28 bucks left to use to buy a PC tool kit if I need it, and in a few days my buddy is my my last two DS games for $20 which will pay for my Elite Package on Global Agenda... [which is a big part of why I built this beefy Ivy Bridge rig] 


Edited by Mshenay - 5/22/12 at 7:17pm
post #206 of 328
Thread Starter 

Starting on CPU and general installation tips

 

 

0 Force installing with the cpu, line it up [according to those two little notches]  gently drop it in... see mom easy at pie! 

 

Once again looks pretty simple, I've stripped about 10 systems so I am farmillar with all those screws that hold everything in place, and thankfully when your building they are easy to see! 


Edited by Mshenay - 5/22/12 at 7:27pm
post #207 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post

Starting on CPU and general installation tips

 

 

0 Force installing with the cpu, line it up [according to those two little notches]  gently drop it in... see mom easy at pie! 

 

Once again looks pretty simple, I've stripped about 10 systems so I am farmillar with all those screws that hold everything in place, and thankfully when your building they are easy to see! 

 

Ok, in a nutshell.

 

 

Fitting the CPU according to the notches two in this case matching the socket notches on the motherboard, if it don't fit don't force it in. Depending on the CPU cooler used, aftermarket's usually have retention backplates and you need to screw and unscrew things. Stock Intel coolers are made by push pins, make sure all the four legs of the CPU cooler is properly pushed in the motherboard, try pulling the cooler off once its pushed into your motherboard to see if its loose.

 

Have your mobo laid somewhere flat and fit in the RAM modules according in the channel's of your RAM, at the same time fit moutn your CPU cooler. Prep your case with the optical, backplate, standoff's and the hdd's and power supply. Then fit your mobo in. Power plugs and cabling are the last of the process.

post #208 of 328
Thats basically the gist but keep in mind exceptions happens. Sometimes you may need to instal mobo first or last or ram last due to spaceing issues but I dont at the moment see a problem as all the parts arent huge. Minue the 6950
post #209 of 328
Thread Starter 

Yea teh video I watched en gouraged a test boot outside your mobo, the only issue I have ie getting the Board to turn on without the power button on the case. The guy demonstrated how you do it [there where two pins he shorted with his Philips head] so the issue is finding the correct pins, but it doesn't look hard and yea, if it doesn't fit... I know not to force it in

 

Why wouldn't it fit btw?

post #210 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post

Yea teh video I watched en gouraged a test boot outside your mobo, the only issue I have ie getting the Board to turn on without the power button on the case. The guy demonstrated how you do it [there where two pins he shorted with his Philips head] so the issue is finding the correct pins, but it doesn't look hard and yea, if it doesn't fit... I know not to force it in

 

Why wouldn't it fit btw?

 

Pins are always positive's first except for certain Asus board's and the reset is opposite for Gigabyte motherboards.

 

(General) From birds eye view:

 

Green/ White (Power LED) , Yellow/White (Power Switch)

+            -                                     +           -

Red/ White (HDD LED)       , Purple or Blue/ White (Reset Switch

+            -                                     +                        -

 

 

You virtually use any conductive piece of metal to short both the Power Switch positive and negative pin's to start the motherboard. Not to mention I think majority of the mid range or high end motherboard's have separate reset, overclocking and power switches embedded onto the motherboard for enthusiast/benchmarking, my one does.

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