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AKG K3003 — Impressions, Reviews & Discussion - Page 9  

post #121 of 211
Thread Starter 

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Edited by music_4321 - 9/6/12 at 11:51am
post #122 of 211

Do they improve much with amplifier ?

post #123 of 211

IMO they benefit quite a lot from a decent amp. I won't say they are the hardest to drive but don't be fooled by the impedance.
 

post #124 of 211

Has there been a comparison between K3003 and FitEar TO GO! 334 ?

post #125 of 211
Thread Starter 

^ Here


Edited by music_4321 - 9/18/12 at 2:01am
post #126 of 211

How about the comparison between the K3003 and the EX1000? Any resemblance in sound signature?

post #127 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMinor View Post

How about the comparison between the K3003 and the EX1000? Any resemblance in sound signature?
Well, both have a treble some find peaky. I can see what they mean, although I'm more tolerant.

The k3003 has an incoherency between the drivers which I and others have found obvious, the Sony is a single driver and so is perfect in this regard.
post #128 of 211
Ha ha, you don't like honest reviews, huh? That's interesting.

Yes, Anaxilus, LFF, Purrin and I (at a minimum) hear an obvious incoherency. It's easy to hear, if you listen carefully, for example to a string quartet where the cello isn't as clear as the violins with the k3003, nor, with vocal polyphony, are the basses as clear as the sopranos. I had an excellent fit, by the way and used the reference set of filters.

As for the treble peaks, you'll have to link me to where you misread that I said they were the same. I only said (accurately) that they both have a treble some find peaky.
post #129 of 211
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunlun View Post

The k3003 has an incoherency between the drivers which I and others have found obvious, the Sony is a single driver and so is perfect in this regard.

 

The incoherency you speak of has NOT been reported by many people who have heard the K3003s, many of whom are (quite) experienced. To say that it's "obvious" is, in my not so humble opinion, a blatant exaggeration.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunlun View Post

Yes, Anaxilus, LFF, Purrin and I (at a minimum) hear an obvious incoherency. It's easy to hear, if you listen carefully, for example to a string quartet where the cello isn't as clear as the violins with the k3003...

 

For your information (and it's been on my HF profile for over 3.5 years), I listen to A LOT of string quartets, and I don't hear any "incoherency" when using the K3003s.

The person who made a big deal about the "incoherency", purrin, who, in my view, has clearly influenced others who later began to 'report' the same (incoherency) 'problem', did NOT test the K3003s properly (had them for just a very short period of time, didn't seem to get a good fit, and only tried the treble filters). He also had a strong bias against Harman Kardon —he actually referred to them as "Harman Cardboard"; Harman now owns AKG (although the K3003s are made by AKG in Austria).

purrin, LFF & Anaxilus are very close (Head-fi) friends. Since purrin & LFF are quite experienced and seem to have plenty of credibility, it's no wonder that, after they wrote their views, suddenly people began to notice (read: be influenced) by their take on the AKGs. I've been a member on Head-fi long enough to recognise when people begin to parrot or regurgitate (or miraculously begin to hear) what other influential HF'ers seem to hear. Here's a link to purrin's review (if one can really call it that): http://www.head-fi.org/products/akg-k3003/reviews/6693

And here are some of the comments by both purrin (in blue) and LFF (in green) left in the comments section of the review:

purrin 4/28/12 at 2:45am
It's not horrible, but it doesn't compare to some of the best. When you consider that the DBA2s/B2s for $200 do much better than these $1200 IEMs - which aren't even customs, you have to wonder what kind of shenanigans AKG is trying to pull off. I was only interested in them because a saw a post where someone said these sounded better than the UERMs and JH13s, so I had to take a good listen to these when I had the opportunity. As far as I am concerned, this product is some kind of sick joke.


purrin 5/20/12 at 9:52am
It definitely could be fitment issues. I'm being exposed to more IEMs, and I've noticed a lot of the short bud IEMs don't work well with me, i.e. Grado GR8. Not all of them, but many. As Insidious Meme said, they are "OK". But to me OK doesn't cut for $1300.
It turns out that I wasn't using the reference tube, but another more open? tube. Anaxilus set it up for me because this way (he knows my preferences) because he felt the K3003 with reference tube could not compete with the UERMs in terms of resolving power. Supposedly the with the reference tube, the upper mid peaks are more tamed, but at the expensive of it sounding like a lower-end IEM. So in the end, it's kind of like either mid-fi slightly forward sound, or high-fi nasty peaks sound. Still the bass integration - how it lags so far behind the mids/treble makes me want to burst out laughing.
I don't know if I will ever get these again. I am starting to do IEM measurements now (to those who have asked.)


LFF 4/28/12 at 1:02pm
Purrin and I went back and forth with this craptastic IEM. After spending countless minutes reading reviews, I think we have both come to the conclusion that when reviewing products aimed at the "high end", it's best to just be straight forward, honest and quick. As far as I am concerned, this IEM received the review it deserved. The fact it even got a review is too much. I honestly feel it didn't deserve the time I spent with it. It's a total musical turd.


Judging by some of the comments left in the comments section by other people, it seems several people were only too pleased to see such a negative 'review' for this (expensive) product — most of these people had obviously not tried the K3003. There was even a comment left by you, Kunlun, four months before you'd even heard the loaner K3003 you currently have with you:

Kunlun 4/28/12 at 5:04pm
I love the "Executive Summary" combined with a "Serious FAIL" and stoned South Park pic.


Yesterday you left the following comment there:

Kunlun Yesterday at 9:04 am
Having heard the k3003, this is a great review.


I wonder if you would "love" a similar "Executive Summary" of the custom MG6Pro which you rate so highly, and which you describe as "balanced & natural", an IEM several people have described as (too) bassy even at the lowest bass setting (vent), and at least 5 people that I know of don't think it's such a good IEM (though for some strange reason all of these people have posted their negative views of the MG6Pros in different threads and not in your MG6Pro review thread, which is the only MG6Pro dedicated thread.

Here's what you wrote only yesterday in a different thread about the K3003s: "…as others have noted, it does have a tendency to be a bit bright and this may bother some people (a lot)… Just as Purrin and others heard, another main issue with the K3003 is a lack of coherency between the drivers which is fairly easy to hear if you listen. The dynamic is slower and less detailed. I would disregard any reviews that don't mention this or brush by it."

There are some experienced members who have not only not reported any coherence issues, but also found the K3003s excellent sounding: james444, MuppetFace, k3oxkjo, Rin, Inks, shotgunshane, night crawler & myself. Even Joker, whom I respect but is not my hero, gave the K3003 a score of 9.6 (out of 10). Should people disregard our views, then?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunlun View Post

Ha ha, you don't like honest reviews, huh? That's interesting.


Contrary to what you suggest, I do welcome honest reviews — truly honest, unbiased reviews, that is. I don't have a problem when people don't like a product I like. I do have issues, however, when people simply bash a product almost for sheer pleasure and shock value. I also have issues when people hype a product I enjoy.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunlun View Post

Well, both [K3003 & EX1000] have a treble some find peaky. I can see what they mean, although I'm more tolerant.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunlun View Post

As for the treble peaks, you'll have to link me to where you misread that I said they were the same. I only said (accurately) that they both have a treble some find peaky.


I didn't say you said they were the same . Here's exactly what I said: "The treble peaks of the EX1000 and K3003 have nothing in common (unlike you, I did a direct comparison between the two) and, while it's true a couple of people have mentioned a peak in the treble region on the K3003s and said they were at times a little bothered by it, the vast majority of people have actually praised how the AKGs render high frequencies." The way you spoke of the treble suggests to me that people would have similar (if not the same) issues with it. For someone attempting to respond to someone else who wanted a comparison between the EX1000 & AKGs, I believe you left out aspects of the treble and didn't even address other very important aspects (bass, mids, soundstage, speed, extension, note wight, etc.).


Edited by music_4321 - 9/18/12 at 9:22pm
post #130 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View PostI don't have a problem when people don't like a product I like.

I think your post is evidence to the contrary.

post #131 of 211

You missed Purrin's comment at the end of review:

 

 

Quote:
Pop and rock do not sound good. However your results may be better with classical or music with acoustic instruments.

 

I strongly suspect many high-end universal IEMs and headphones are tuned towards classical and jazz music, and not pop. The bright treble works with those genres of music, but modern mastering, which tends to be brighter, results in a piercing sound. The HD-700s had this very problem. 

 

I'll see if I can't give these a good run in Tokyo next month though and figure out what is going on with them. I find the strong treble of modern TOTL IEMs, such as the Audio Technicas, to be horrid. I usually listen with 'stats and LCD-3s, where the treble quality is vastly better, so the lower quality of the treble with dynamic drivers is too grating. If these AKGs have a similar piercing treble, I'll probably not like them. Likewise the people who seem most critical of these are also used to TOTL 'stats, orthos and the like.

post #132 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post

You missed Purrin's comment at the end of review:

 

 

 

I strongly suspect many high-end universal IEMs and headphones are tuned towards classical and jazz music, and not pop. The bright treble works with those genres of music, but modern mastering, which tends to be brighter, results in a piercing sound. The HD-700s had this very problem. 

 

I'll see if I can't give these a good run in Tokyo next month though and figure out what is going on with them. I find the strong treble of modern TOTL IEMs, such as the Audio Technicas, to be horrid. I usually listen with 'stats and LCD-3s, where the treble quality is vastly better, so the lower quality of the treble with dynamic drivers is too grating. If these AKGs have a similar piercing treble, I'll probably not like them. Likewise the people who seem most critical of these are also used to TOTL 'stats, orthos and the like.


What I did was pick music where there are voices in all parts of the frequency range which need to be perfectly balanced with each other. Renaissance polyphony and string quartets are examples. Then, I allowed myself the listening time necessary for any inconsistencies to make themselves evident. I personally find that while aspects of an earphones' sound may be quickly noticeable, finding just the right word to describe what I'm hearing may take a little more listening time.

 

In commenting on bass which can't keep up, I think Purrin is actually noticing a slightly different, but related, part of the inconsistency between the characteristics between the dynamic and armature drivers.


Edited by Kunlun - 9/18/12 at 10:40pm
post #133 of 211
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post

You missed Purrin's comment at the end of review:

 

Quote:
Pop and rock do not sound good. However your results may be better with classical or music with acoustic instruments.

 

I strongly suspect many high-end universal IEMs and headphones are tuned towards classical and jazz music, and not pop. The bright treble works with those genres of music, but modern mastering, which tends to be brighter, results in a piercing sound. The HD-700s had this very problem. 

 

I'll see if I can't give these a good run in Tokyo next month though and figure out what is going on with them. I find the strong treble of modern TOTL IEMs, such as the Audio Technicas, to be horrid. I usually listen with 'stats and LCD-3s, where the treble quality is vastly better, so the lower quality of the treble with dynamic drivers is too grating. If these AKGs have a similar piercing treble, I'll probably not like them. Likewise the people who seem most critical of these are also used to TOTL 'stats, orthos and the like.

 

 

Yes and no (bolded text). The FI-BA-SS, F111 & K3003 are on the brighter side, though all three present treble differently (as well as mid & low freqs). The EX1000's treble at higher volumes could be quite problematic with bright recordings (mostly modern pop recordings/masters or some remastered older pop/rock albums).

The Piano Forte IX & TG334, by contrast, have less prominent treble (though you must bear in mind you yourself were using double flange tips on the 334s which makes the FitEars quite bright [not my cup of tea as also both mid & low freqs were negatively affected], while I use the single-flange silicone tips which makes the treble considerable less bright).

purrin was only given the treble filters and only tried the AKGs for a short period of time. On top of that, it seems he was desperately trying get a customs type seal, pushing whatever tips he tried as far in as he could — this not the recommended insertion method for the K3003s, they are not Etymotic type IEMs or even Shure / Westone type IEMs. And while it's true many people want the most isolation possible, many people do not want that much isolation. In fact, many, many IEMs offer fairly poor isolation. Even purrin himself says he's not that experienced with (universal) IEMs.

As for LFF, I've no idea how he went about testing the K3003s, but he absolutely hated them as can be seen by his comments, and I've not seen anyone describe the K3003s so negatively, not even close (except for his good friend purrin, that is, but even purrin, at least publicly, was not that harsh).

Bear in mind, too, that there are 3 different filters. Most people prefer the reference filter, a few prefer the treble filter, several don't care much for the bass filter, though one experienced HF'er did like it. I personally find the reference filter to be the best sounding, and even on some bright recordings it is reasonably forgiving (unlike the merciless EX1000).


Edited by music_4321 - 9/18/12 at 11:05pm
post #134 of 211

subscribe. a very interesting and intelligent debate, you make a very good laywer defending the K3003i. Cheers..

post #135 of 211

OK, what's the main differences (minus the cost) between the K3003 and the EX1000?

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