or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Cables, Power, Tweaks, Speakers, Accessories (DBT-Free Forum) › Toxic Cables - Impressions and Discussion Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Toxic Cables - Impressions and Discussion Thread - Page 453

post #6781 of 9357
Quote:
Originally Posted by citraian View Post

A HD 800 cable comparison: http://headmania.org/2014/06/18/aftermarket-cables-for-sennheiser-hd800/
Nice review!
Only Pity he didnt use the black widow 22awg 8wire version...instead he used a 4wire 24awg BW...thats not a fair comparision in my book..as that for sure that cable would be a better cable then the 24awg 4wire he tested and a stronger/better contestant against the 8wire norsecable:-)
But this is proof that a 4wire cable of frank can go one on one with a MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE 8wire cable and still sounds good! Am sure if he used a 8wire bw 22awg (as i have) he maybe would prefer the BW above the norse cable wink.gif
Edited by hifimanrookie - 6/18/14 at 5:46am
post #6782 of 9357
The 4 wire is ~ the same price with the Norne wire. Using a 8 wire would not be fair since it's more expensive than the Norne.
Anyway, both are GREAT cables and it's almost impossible to decide between them sometimes.
post #6783 of 9357
Quote:
Originally Posted by citraian View Post

The 4 wire is ~ the same price with the Norne wire. Using a 8 wire would not be fair since it's more expensive than the Norne.
Anyway, both are GREAT cables and it's almost impossible to decide between them sometimes.

Am sorry to say it my friend...but..

Ur wrong..they are not priced the same! I checked the norse audio site and The mentioned norse audio cable in same configuration as the BW 24awg costs 299USD (thats still a very competitive price compared to the other US based brands!)
But The used BW only costs 125GBP..thats 211USD (according to XE.com) .thats a difference of almost 90usd...
..so i am wondering where u got the idea that both cables are priced the same... But dont worry..many others think that Franks cables are more expensive then they really are.. In reality they have a killer perfomance-price ratio!


I still think that..a 8wire 24awg BW would come more closer to the price of the norse audio cable.

As i said..the review was written very well..with good pics... And i know myself norse audio also,makes excellent cables...norse audio is my second favorite (behind toxic cables) cable maker!
Edited by hifimanrookie - 6/18/14 at 6:31am
post #6784 of 9357
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post

Unfortunately I have not listened to any other aftermarket cable on the HD800's.
I would love to listen to the BW or other quality copper  cable but I generally prefer silver and loved my first Toxic cable (Silver Poison) on my HE-6's so I stuck with silver.
I don't consider the HD800's as bright with the SW. The treble is very extended but smooth and there is plenty of tight deep bass and excellent midrange.
The SW may be brighter than the BW but I would call this just more extended up high rather than more emphasized.
I have been very interested in the Venom ( Franks best Copper cable if I am not mistaken, although I do lose track! ).


Yeah disappointed with the Italy result but I thought the performance was good, at least compared to our normal level. However I am looking ahead as this is a young England team with a whole new defense and some good young players coming through.
After the Costa Rica result the group is still wide open and if we can improve and get a result against Uruguay  anything can happen.
NigelJames,


To me, the he-6, the main coloration is not really brightness but a hardness or call it glare in the midrange and upper midrange that is most apparent when these cans are driven hard.

Current headphones aren't perfect but they are so good that a cable may improve or simply change the sound just a little, say from 95 to 99% so you can still have very nice sound with non- optimal combination.

Long ago when he wasn't so busy, Frank made me tiny adaptors that allowed me to switch cables easily from a pair of cans to another. I compared the Silver Poison/Silver Widow with the Copper Venom (8 wire variety) and it was very clear to me that the Silver cables reinforced both the strengths and weaknesses of the HE-6 while the Copper Venom was able to nicely compensate for the HE-6 colorations--less glare, more bloom in the bass--without noticeable affecting its many strengths.

With the HE-6 you should hear noticeable improvement with the HE-6 by going from the Silver cables to the Copper Venom (8 wire version): a less fatiguing sound.
post #6785 of 9357
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post


Am sorry to say it my friend...but..

Ur wrong..they are not priced the same! I checked the norse audio site and The mentioned norse audio cable in same configuration as the BW 24awg costs 299USD (thats still a very competitive price compared to the other US based brands!)
But The used BW only costs 125GBP..thats 211USD (according to XE.com) .thats a difference of almost 90usd...
..so i am wondering where u got the idea that both cables are priced the same... But dont worry..many others think that Franks cables are more expensive then they really are.. In reality they have a killer perfomance-price ratio!


I still think that..a 8wire 24awg BW would come more closer to the price of the norse audio cable.

As i said..the review was written very well..with good pics... And i know myself norse audio also,makes excellent cables...norse audio is my second favorite (behind toxic cables) cable maker!

I'm actually the owner of those three cables :)

That's why I know that they are roughly in the same price category :P The BW actually was £160.

 

I can confirm that all of those three cables are great in their own way as Dan said and that it's all about a matter of taste. And hey, competition is great. Competition is what pushes Frank and other cable manufacturers to bring us the best of the best :)


Edited by citraian - 6/18/14 at 8:00am
post #6786 of 9357
Quote:
Originally Posted by citraian View Post

I'm actually the owner of those three cables smily_headphones1.gif
That's why I know that they are roughly in the same price category :P The BW actually was £160.

I can confirm that all of those three cables are great in their own way as Dan said and that it's all about a matter of taste. And hey, competition is great. Competition is what pushes Frank and other cable manufacturers to bring us the best of the best smily_headphones1.gif
Oh okay..that explains a lot..the 26awg bw NOW only costs 125gbp..thats a difference of 35gbp.

And as i said before..am not attacking u or norse audio..i belive that norse audio together with toxic are in my opinion the brands that should be on ur shortlist of headphone cables...only frank has a bit more competitive pricing now wink.gif
post #6787 of 9357
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post


Oh okay..that explains a lot..the 26awg bw NOW only costs 125gbp..thats a difference of 35gbp.

And as i said before..am not attacking u or norse audio..i belive that norse audio together with toxic are in my opinion the brands that should be on ur shortlist of headphone cables...only frank has a bit more competitive pricing now wink.gif

Ah, please note that I have the 22AWG Black Widow, not the 26 one. I will tell Dan to modify the article as well.


Edited by citraian - 6/18/14 at 8:12am
post #6788 of 9357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin_Time View Post


NigelJames,


To me, the he-6, the main coloration is not really brightness but a hardness or call it glare in the midrange and upper midrange that is most apparent when these cans are driven hard.

Current headphones aren't perfect but they are so good that a cable may improve or simply change the sound just a little, say from 95 to 99% so you can still have very nice sound with non- optimal combination.

Long ago when he wasn't so busy, Frank made me tiny adaptors that allowed me to switch cables easily from a pair of cans to another. I compared the Silver Poison/Silver Widow with the Copper Venom (8 wire variety) and it was very clear to me that the Silver cables reinforced both the strengths and weaknesses of the HE-6 while the Copper Venom was able to nicely compensate for the HE-6 colorations--less glare, more bloom in the bass--without noticeable affecting its many strengths.

With the HE-6 you should hear noticeable improvement with the HE-6 by going from the Silver cables to the Copper Venom (8 wire version): a less fatiguing sound.

 

Justin_Time I appreciate your comments however I have to clarify a couple of points.

 

Firstly I don't hear any glare or hardness at any volume with the HE-6's , even with the stock cable which gave me an overly warm sound.

You say that it is 'most apparent' when they are driven hard, well could it be the amp that is causing that because if the HE6's are being driven hard then the amp (unless you are using a speaker amp) will be as well.

 

I don't like 'bloom' in the bass, to me it comes across as lack of control or distortion. The bass I am getting is very deep but very well controlled and fast but also pretty weighty and full sounding.

The thing I like with quality silver cables is the speed and control in the bass, the SW also gives me great depth as well as nice weight. Hence the superb bass I get with the HD800/SW as well.

 

I would really like to hear the Venom cable but as I don't have any fatigue I am struggling to imagine where it would be superior.

post #6789 of 9357
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post

 

Justin_Time I appreciate your comments however I have to clarify a couple of points.

 

Firstly I don't hear any glare or hardness at any volume with the HE-6's , even with the stock cable which gave me an overly warm sound.

You say that it is 'most apparent' when they are driven hard, well could it be the amp that is causing that because if the HE6's are being driven hard then the amp (unless you are using a speaker amp) will be as well.

 

I don't like 'bloom' in the bass, to me it comes across as lack of control or distortion. The bass I am getting is very deep but very well controlled and fast but also pretty weighty and full sounding.

The thing I like with quality silver cables is the speed and control in the bass, the SW also gives me great depth as well as nice weight. Hence the superb bass I get with the HD800/SW as well.

 

I would really like to hear the Venom cable but as I don't have any fatigue I am struggling to imagine where it would be superior.

 



All the changes I talked about are noticeable but not huge. To get a clear description, we all tend to exaggerate a litte to get the point across.

I agree with you on the HE-6 bass: it is fast and very tight. With the Silver cable, it becomes even tighter and faster. With the Copper Venom, the bass remains fast but the bloom--I am talking about a slight amount here--added enough volume to produced a tremendous slam on par with that of the LCD.

The hardness or glare--a ringing overtone similar to the sound you get when you tap on a piece of glass or a metal object, but a lighter, subtler--is definitely inherent to the voicing of the HE-6; it just becomes more apparent when driven hard. The best way to detect it is to listen to trasients from a string instrument like a guitar hitting the high notes. With the hardness/glare in the sound, you hear a tinny, brittle sound. With a good amp and Copper Venom, you hear a lot more body to the sound of the plucked string with minimal metallic ringing or hardness.

I used speaker outputs from many amps like the Woo WA5 for example. These amps are not even breathing hard. Actually I had to reduce the output with resistor arrays to ensure that the amp does not deliver too much power to the HE-6. The easiest way to hear the difference between Silver and Copper cables is to try them both, side by side, which I was able to do with Frank's adaptors. I had the 8-wire Silver Widow with silver pins on the HE-6. When I switched to the 8-wire OCC Copper Venom with copper pins, which I used originaluy on the HD800, I heard a clear improvement on the HE-6: a smootther, more relaxed midrange free of hardness and a tremendous impact in the bass. The center image is not right next to the singer and inside the band anymore, but moved back slightly, placing the listener at a more natural distance in front of the orchestra (between 1std and 3rd row.

Cheers.
post #6790 of 9357
To put my 2 cents in , Frank of Toxic Cables has produced a good after market cable, after some conversation my choice was the Venom silver for the Audeze 3
Edited by LivingVoice - 10/12/14 at 1:50pm
post #6791 of 9357
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post


Nice review!
Only Pity he didnt use the black widow 22awg 8wire version...instead he used a 4wire 24awg BW...thats not a fair comparision in my book..as that for sure that cable would be a better cable then the 24awg 4wire he tested and a stronger/better contestant against the 8wire norsecable:-)
But this is proof that a 4wire cable of frank can go one on one with a MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE 8wire cable and still sounds good! Am sure if he used a 8wire bw 22awg (as i have) he maybe would prefer the BW above the norse cable wink.gif

 

Nothing inferior about 4 wire cables IMO - in fact I prefer them for sound quality.

post #6792 of 9357

Hey everyone, I was wondering if the silver widow is a worthwhile upgrade over the silver poison on the LCD2? I have a ripped silver poison and it will be quite costly to repair it and I am thinking of just getting the silver widow. Which option should I go for? Thanks!

post #6793 of 9357
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post
 

 

Justin_Time I appreciate your comments however I have to clarify a couple of points.

 

Firstly I don't hear any glare or hardness at any volume with the HE-6's , even with the stock cable which gave me an overly warm sound.

You say that it is 'most apparent' when they are driven hard, well could it be the amp that is causing that because if the HE6's are being driven hard then the amp (unless you are using a speaker amp) will be as well.

 

I don't like 'bloom' in the bass, to me it comes across as lack of control or distortion. The bass I am getting is very deep but very well controlled and fast but also pretty weighty and full sounding.

The thing I like with quality silver cables is the speed and control in the bass, the SW also gives me great depth as well as nice weight. Hence the superb bass I get with the HD800/SW as well.

 

I would really like to hear the Venom cable but as I don't have any fatigue I am struggling to imagine where it would be superior.

NigelJames,

 

You made a good point about potential amp distortion.  I am quite sure, however, that it was not the cause of the hardness/glare in the HE-6 sound. I used the Woo WA5 K1K output, the high impedance plug of the HP-4 or the speaker output of several amps (resistor arrays to protect the HE-6 against too much power) and although the HE-6 was played pretty loud--that's what I meant by driven hard--the amps were barely breaking a sweat (volume control between 12 and 3 o'clock).

 

I would agree that, with the right amp, the hardness/glare in the HE-6 sound could be much reduced if not eliminated.  But I am also quite sure, having gone through countless combinations of DAC/Amp/Cable, that this coloration is inherent to the voicing of the HE-6. OCC copper like the Copper Venom helps reduce that coloration.  The Siver Window is faster, more transparent and lthus ets this coloration pass through. The Copper Venom add a little more volume to the bass, which I called "bloom."  With the Copper Venom, the HE-6 retains the bass tightness so the result is a thunderous slam of the bass that rivals that of the LCD3., which still has a little more volume but a lot less speed in  the bass.

 

The hardness/glare in the HE-6 sound is somewhat similar to the sound you make when hitting two pieces of metal together or hitting a piece of glass.  It is a ringing but of course to a a reduced degree here.  Unfortunately (or fortunately) we tend to get used to a sound that we listen to a lot and pretty soon we can no longer easily hear the flaws or fully appreciate the positive attributes for that matter.  To re-acclimate my hearing, I usually do a quick comparison with other headphones--the Fostex TH-900 or the Denon LA7000 have a particularly smooth and clean midrange/upper midrange and no hardness or glare at all in the sound.   Any hardness left in the HE-6 then becomes very apparent. I also once in a while check the sound with my stereo system in the room.

 

But, rather than speculating about the difference between the two cables on the HE-6, the most direct (not always the cheapest) way is to check is to swap the cables.  Thanks to the little adaptors Frank made for me for swapping cables among different headphones without havung to buy it first, I can try on the HE-6 the Silver Widow (8-wire) I use on my LCD3 or the Silver Poison (4-wire) I use on my LCD2, or the the Copper Venom (8-wire if memory serves) I used on my HD800. As the DAC/amp remain the same, the difference is in the wires. Doing that, I can quickly compare the sound and easily "hear" the difference.

 

Now, after going through this comparison, you may still prefer the HE-6 with the Silver Widow, but to my ears, with all the DAC/amp combinations I tried, I much prefer the Copper venom/HE6 because of the absence of hardness/glare in the sound and a tremendous bass slam.  The Silver Widow has a slightly tighter focus and a tad more inner details,  The Copper Venom has a smoother sound and a more natural center image.  The soundstage are essentially the same for both cables , i.e. sadly not very big for the HE-6 or any other headphones when compared to speakers in a room or concert hall.     But that is another topic for another time...

 

Cheers,

 

Justin_Time       

 

 

post #6794 of 9357
Quote:
Originally Posted by snarfarlarkus View Post
 

Hey everyone, I was wondering if the silver widow is a worthwhile upgrade over the silver poison on the LCD2? I have a ripped silver poison and it will be quite costly to repair it and I am thinking of just getting the silver widow. Which option should I go for? Thanks!

http://www.head-fi.org/t/641166/toxic-cables-silver-widow-headphone-cable-review

post #6795 of 9357

I would go all the way and get the 8-wire Silver Widow with silver pins if you use a 4-pin XLR connector.

Later, when you trade up to the LCD 3, you have no need to upgrade the cable.

Cheers.

PS: there are people on the internet (e.g. eBay) that can repair your wires if the damage is not catastrophic.i have use a few that are trustworthy and reasonable.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Cables, Power, Tweaks, Speakers, Accessories (DBT-Free Forum) › Toxic Cables - Impressions and Discussion Thread