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post #91 of 1790

I agree. But it also goes hand in hand on the objective end. Although there is evidence that does prove there are some changes on a graph with various cables. People dismiss that as not possibly being audible? How is this objective? That is a subjective opinion being used against an objective experiment? Also the tools used to record this aren't 100% free of error.
 

Now I do not agree with people taking advantage of people, making money on things that don't produce any benefit for the end user. On my end though I've been lucky thus far and don't feel like I've been taken advantage of.


Edited by lee730 - 5/7/12 at 11:33pm
post #92 of 1790
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNZGamer View Post

 

Pride? Don't see how that is involved. The topic is about the fact that consumers (like myself) trust reviewers. I've made many purchases based on reviews. Sure I've been burned twice now (Senn HD598 and UM3x really aren't for me) but that is expected when I am still in the exploration phase of discovering my audio tastes. But I would like to know that the people I am extracting information from aren't just out right making up things in their head.

 

The problem is, some really believe in the things in their head, and are quite serious about it, unlike marketing folk who'll make stuff up for the sake of it.

post #93 of 1790
Could somebody please lock this thread?

This discussion isn't actually going anywhere.
post #94 of 1790

It never does...
 

 

DNZ if you are that skeptical and you do have the right to be. It may be better for you to not take advice from anyone then and find your own path. That is at least what I'm gathering from your comment. And do expect to be burned because I have a couple times going on others opinions, but I've fine tuned my sound preference through these experiences. I've been pretty lucky thus far on my choices though.


Edited by lee730 - 5/7/12 at 11:38pm
post #95 of 1790
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post

I agree. But it also goes hand in hand on the objective end. Although there is evidence that does prove there are some changes on a graph with various cables. People dismiss that as not possibly being audible? How is this objective? That is a subjective opinion being used against an objective experiment? Also the tools used to record this aren't 100% free of error.

 

Are we just completely ignoring the fact that humans HAVE been tested? People did claim that measured differences were inaudible. That was the hypothesis and the DBTs were the experiment which proved it.

 

Honestly, I think you guys are intentionally being selective of facts and completely ignoring information that you find unfavorable. 


Edited by DNZGamer - 5/7/12 at 11:37pm
post #96 of 1790
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post

I agree. But it also goes hand in hand on the objective end. Although there is evidence that does prove there are some changes on a graph with various cables. People dismiss that as not possibly being audible? How is this objective? That is a subjective opinion being used against an objective experiment? Also the tools used to record this aren't 100% free of error.
 

Now I do not agree with people taking advantage of people, making money on things that don't produce any benefit for the end user. On my end though I've been lucky thus far and don't feel like I've been taken advantage of.

A lot of things can be designed one way or another, and still be perceived as same, if you've heard about Pentile vs RGB displays, you'll know what I'm saying. But this threshold of discernibility is also an objective standard.

post #97 of 1790

I guess this thread has achieved its objective, as per the OP's question. 

post #98 of 1790
Originally Posted by DNZGamer View Post

Recently just read a review about another IEM and in it, the cables are being mentioned as enhancing the bass, helping with soundstage and imaging. Sounds like a big difference...

 

[/]

 

Someone tell me what to believe and make it simple!

 

The most significant sonic difference in IEM cables is the impedance spec. (ohm / Ω).

 

If a copper cable is 25 ohm and a silver cable is 100 ohm they'll sound totally different, so the reviewer could be tricked into thinking the silver cable sounds better due to the higher conductivity and lower resistivity of silver - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_conductivity_of_metals#Resistivity_of_various_materials, when in fact he's hearing something else which can change the FR and soundspace/imaging on a case by case basis.

 

You can it for yourself - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Etymotic-Headphones-ER4P-ER4S-75-Ohm-Convertor-Cable-/280732730536

 

 

Anyway, the simple answer is you don't need fancy cables and you should spend that money on something else which actually does make a difference, like higher-end IEM's and your choice of DAC/Amp.

post #99 of 1790
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNZGamer View Post

 

Are we just completely ignoring the fact that humans HAVE been tested? People did claim that measured differences were inaudible. That was the hypothesis and the DBTs were the experiment which proved it.

 

Honestly, I think you guys are intentionally being selective of facts and completely ignoring information that you find unfavorable. 

 

It seems you already have formed your opinion DNZ so why is this thread even up? Until you try it for yourself you will never really know and you'll be going off of opinions. I don't remember the name of the headier but he did run tests and measured differences between the cables, and according to him he could hear a difference in the sound. Of course people are gonna state that these differences are inaudible. But because it may be inaudible to one person is it objective to say it is inaudible to all? Is it impossible for someone to see better than another person? Is it impossible to have a higher IQ than another person? Can we come to the same conclusion regarding hearing?

post #100 of 1790

Originally Posted by proton007 View Post

 

A lot of things can be designed one way or another, and still be perceived as same, if you've heard about Pentile vs RGB displays, you'll know what I'm saying. But this threshold of discernibility is also an objective standard.

 

A lot of people can't feel latency / input-lag in a PC monitor because they don't look for it / never seen zero latency, doesn't mean it's not there. tongue_smile.gif 

 

The threshold of visual discernibility is not defined, btw.  In audio it kinda is, since it's important to musicians.

post #101 of 1790
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

 

A lot of people can't feel latency / input-lag in a PC monitor because they don't look for it / never seen zero latency, doesn't mean it's not there. tongue_smile.gif 

 

The threshold of visual discernibility is not defined, btw.  In audio it kinda is, since it's important to musicians.

Supposedly 60 FPS is the threshold which is bs. I play FPS and 120 Hz is way better and makes a world of a difference. I still have my reservations though regarding human audibility. There's more that meets-the-eye here and there's still more room for improvement.

post #102 of 1790
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

 

A lot of people can't feel latency / input-lag in a PC monitor because they don't look for it / never seen zero latency, doesn't mean it's not there. tongue_smile.gif 

 

The threshold of visual discernibility is not defined, btw.  In audio it kinda is, since it's important to musicians.

I think you mean response timing?

post #103 of 1790
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by proton007 View Post

I guess this thread has achieved its objective, as per the OP's question. 


Yeah well seems like a lot of people just say outright not to trust reviewers who talk of dramatic cabling miracles. The only headphone I have that can be easily recabled is my vmoda m80. I would not mind testing this out myself if someone could recommend a cable that would supposedly contrast my current m80 stock cables. But to justify dropping the money for the experiment, please recommend a cable that at least looks nice so in the vent I don't notice a difference, I still end up with a nice fashion alternative.


@Lee

 

You consistently missed the actual question of this topic. This wasn't about "do cables make a difference". Its about what to do about reviewers and how to navigate towards smart purchases.

 

Also, your points about difference in hearing is completely irrelevant. It has been done with people who have good and bad hearing already. It isn't set in stone but the likelihood that you have better hearing than all the people in the studies so far is quite implausible. If I was to use discretion based on existing information, it would be nothing but foolishness to believe you over far more intense studies across a much wider sample rate. You are attempting to dispel decades of scientific studies with nothing but anecdotal evidence here. 

@Kiteki,

 

I thought science already has proven people can perceive HUNDREDS of frames? The 60 frames was just a myth by marketers I think. It was never grounded in findings. In fact, science says that people do not perceive in frames to begin with.


Edited by DNZGamer - 5/8/12 at 12:00am
post #104 of 1790

That is also another important factor on a monitor. For FPS that millisecond will determine life or death (Quake 3 anyone :).
 

post #105 of 1790
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmiamihk View Post

Hehe you bringing mythology into music? How many headphones you need to be able to enjoy music? How do you know if one headphone sounds better then another? Do you also have some machine to test which one really sound better or do you trust your hearing?
There's already a huge amount of mythology in this hobby, if you hadn't noticed. I go by sound and by charts. Cables have never improved sound on an audible level, there's not a single peer-reviewed scientific test out there to show it, but buying new headphones often can.
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