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post #1666 of 1790
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantScareMe View Post

 

Fair enough.

I just see too much ganging up on someone who says a cable has changed their system for the better (regardless of whatever reasoning the give). Monotonous.  

 

This is the Sound Science forum. We try to understand the reasons why things happen, and we try to verify results. There really isn't much point marching in, claiming something and belligerently refusing to play by the rules of science. There are a bunch of other forums in Head-Fi for that. Knowing why Sound Science exists, why would anyone come in here and do that unless they *wanted* to provoke the inevitable requests for proof?

 

The response isn't monotonous, the incessant trolling is.

post #1667 of 1790
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantScareMe View Post

 

Neither do I. But I know of a forum where having the opinion cables sound different pretty much gets you slated...

 

I guess his point wasn't stated clearly enough.

 

In every forum on head-fi except this one, you can get banned for saying cables all sound the same and providing evidence to back up what you say.

 

In this forum, if you say you hear a difference in cables, you get people disagreeing with you and providing evidence to show you are mistaken.

 

If you ask me, we aren't the ones that are the problem.

post #1668 of 1790

Reading the last few pages made me think of people having a debate regarding the existence of God.  The scientific, evidence-requiring skeptics vs the faith-based believers.  A believer saying , "I know there is no hard scientific evidence for God's existence, but he speaks to me, or "I can feel him", being analogous to, "I don't care if there is no scientific justification in cables, I can HEAR the difference!"

 

Not sure where I'm going with this; just popped into my head.  For anyone curious, I'm somewhere between atheist-agnostic regarding God, and skeptical regarding cables, though I DO believe I've heard the difference for myself, however I can't find the scientific justification, and I'm fully aware of the power of expectation bias.

post #1669 of 1790
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

In every forum on head-fi except this one, you can get banned for saying cables all sound the same ... If you ask me, we aren't the ones that are the problem.

I agree. I am always polite, and stick to the facts, and I never insult anyone until they have insulted me several times. The most insulting people are those who have beliefs about audio that they can't back up, and they hate it when you explain the facts, no matter how politely. There's a thread at an audiophile forum about tweaks. It's up to 673 posts, and many contain insults such as this gem from yesterday:

"You're acting non-sensical as usual. You're either a baby that needs a milk bottle or tit delivered straight to your mouth before you drink or you're trying to set yourself up in some imaginary ivory tower pretending to be some highly-educated intellectual type where others must prove anything to you ... you continue to show that you're educated far beyond your intelligence when you think you can sit there in your baby stroller or imaginary ivory tower demanding that others provide Professor Ethan sufficient proof before he lifts a finger. Let's be honest, Ethan. You and your ilk are nobodies, just like the rest of us are nobodies ... I think there's a lot of laziness involved here too ... climb up out of your baby stroller or climb down from your imaginary ivory tower ... Or you can just play dumb and lazy the rest of your life and continue wasting everybody's time."

Pretty bad, eh? This is in response to my saying I'll be glad to consider the value of "power" products as soon as someone shows an improvement at the output of the connected audio device. The fact that a forum will ban you for your opinion shows they know they have no rebuttal, so all that's left is censorship.

--Ethan
Edited by EthanWiner - 7/11/13 at 11:22am
post #1670 of 1790

I sympathize. No one should have to put up with that. But folks who actually know what they're talking about are better able to deal with that stuff I guess. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

 

I think we live in an age where people live in their own heads, entertain themselves with their own words and have no clue about how they look to others. These people are incapable of reading other people's emotions and motives and they react in ways that just plain aren't appropriate. There's a medical term for it, but I see it as a societal shift, not a medical one.

post #1671 of 1790

I work in a client based environment, where all in this office deal with clients directly every day. If any one here sent to a client a single email like that one addressing Ethan, our company will go bust.

Yep.

Literally bust. 

 

The guy who wrote that is an advanced version of the typical youtube beieber basher. Waste of time reading it/responding.

post #1672 of 1790

Wow Ethan, that is some kind of reply you got there.  As an outsider not taking part it actually is pretty funny to read. 

post #1673 of 1790
Back to cables. I am pretty non technical so please bare with me. Would I be right in thinking that the most ardent believer in cables would not expect a cable to impart a quality to the sound that was not in the original recording? If so, what would sound "better" 1 inch of "inferior" cable or 1ft. of "superior" cable?
post #1674 of 1790
In that German forum I was talking about earlier, every cable thread gets moved to the voodoo subforum by the mods.

It's the biggest forum over there btw.
post #1675 of 1790
Quote:
Originally Posted by EthanWiner View Post

I agree. I am always polite, and stick to the facts, and I never insult anyone until they have insulted me several times. The most insulting people are those who have beliefs about audio that they can't back up, and they hate it when you explain the facts, no matter how politely. There's a thread at an audiophile forum about tweaks. It's up to 673 posts, and many contain insults such as this gem from yesterday:

"You're acting non-sensical as usual. You're either a baby that needs a milk bottle or tit delivered straight to your mouth before you drink or you're trying to set yourself up in some imaginary ivory tower pretending to be some highly-educated intellectual type where others must prove anything to you ... you continue to show that you're educated far beyond your intelligence when you think you can sit there in your baby stroller or imaginary ivory tower demanding that others provide Professor Ethan sufficient proof before he lifts a finger. Let's be honest, Ethan. You and your ilk are nobodies, just like the rest of us are nobodies ... I think there's a lot of laziness involved here too ... climb up out of your baby stroller or climb down from your imaginary ivory tower ... Or you can just play dumb and lazy the rest of your life and continue wasting everybody's time."

Pretty bad, eh? This is in response to my saying I'll be glad to consider the value of "power" products as soon as someone shows an improvement at the output of the connected audio device. The fact that a forum will ban you for your opinion shows they know they have no rebuttal, so all that's left is censorship.

And I'll say it again. You're acting non-sensical as usual... biggrin.gif

se
post #1676 of 1790
Quote:
Originally Posted by krismusic View Post

Back to cables. I am pretty non technical so please bare with me. Would I be right in thinking that the most ardent believer in cables would not expect a cable to impart a quality to the sound that was not in the original recording? If so, what would sound "better" 1 inch of "inferior" cable or 1ft. of "superior" cable?


I think your asking the wrong group actually.  Not trying to be a smart aleck.  If you think some cable loses part of the signal or louses it up it would depend on how big the difference.  Superior one foot could be better if that were the case.  But it really is a useless question as both one inch and one foot will transfer the signal unmolested. 

post #1677 of 1790
Yes. That makes sense. Just thought I had something there for a minute!
There is going to be a blind cable challenge at the next London meet.
I will be very interested to try it as I am neutral tending toward sceptic.
I can't help thinking that psychoacoustics are more remarkable than the attributes of a piece of cable...
post #1678 of 1790
I posted up a week or so back on my conclusions on the vertere d-fi USB cable vs an Amazon Basics Cable ( which btw, is nicely made) - zero audible difference sighted and on a blind test. I couldn't tell them apart, on the blind tests, it was just guessing. Used on HDVD800 / HD800 / MBPR / Audioirvana running lossless files.
post #1679 of 1790
Numbers don't lie so I won't try.

Convenient excuse to be lazy or cheap. Either way, your choice. If you put the effort into listening instead of refuting, you may understand what the other side has found. To accuse them of self delusion is the biggest laugh. It's all a decision each of us makes. Some can't tell a difference between a 128k ipod and a $5k dac. I'd say they aren't very well educated in the art of listening. And no, 50 years of listening to music isn't the same as critical listening, I'm learning that at 57.

I just learned another lesson yesterday. I was listening to some hi end amps at the dealer with my DAC/laptop/headphones. I had been on this amp for the better part of an hour when my friend handed me a USB cable to try. No coaching, no comments at all. All things were equal in the setup (including volume) and I just swapped out the USB cable. I was not expecting to hear a difference since it is in the digital domain. I walked out with a new USB cable. Since it's a hidden cable, I had no bias toward looks, elitism of cost, and a bit of a skeptical attitude about the digital domain having an impact. I was proved wrong. There was an improvement and it was immediate. The biggest issue in this debate is more about value of improvement. If you can hear a difference, is it worth the cost? To a hungry person, no way. To a connoisseur, perhaps.
post #1680 of 1790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Camper View Post

Numbers don't lie so I won't try.

Convenient excuse to be lazy or cheap. Either way, your choice. If you put the effort into listening instead of refuting, you may understand what the other side has found. To accuse them of self delusion is the biggest laugh. It's all a decision each of us makes. Some can't tell a difference between a 128k ipod and a $5k dac. I'd say they aren't very well educated in the art of listening. And no, 50 years of listening to music isn't the same as critical listening, I'm learning that at 57.

I just learned another lesson yesterday. I was listening to some hi end amps at the dealer with my DAC/laptop/headphones. I had been on this amp for the better part of an hour when my friend handed me a USB cable to try. No coaching, no comments at all. All things were equal in the setup (including volume) and I just swapped out the USB cable. I was not expecting to hear a difference since it is in the digital domain. I walked out with a new USB cable. Since it's a hidden cable, I had no bias toward looks, elitism of cost, and a bit of a skeptical attitude about the digital domain having an impact. I was proved wrong. There was an improvement and it was immediate. The biggest issue in this debate is more about value of improvement. If you can hear a difference, is it worth the cost? To a hungry person, no way. To a connoisseur, perhaps.


This is the all too typical response.  Plenty here have gotten it many times.  We have put in the effort to listen.  You can't hear a difference when none exists except by some sort of artifact of your perception.

 

Did not the offer of the USB cable have an unspoken communication that it might be better or sound different?  Otherwise why would your friend have bothered?  You heard a difference yet one no one has been able to explain.  One which likely will disappear were you to audition the USB cables blind.  If you passed the blind auditioning reliably then something must be happening.  Otherwise it simply is most likely a placebo effect. Yes, even if you sat there thinking you wouldn't hear a difference. 

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