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Does it get much better than the HD800? - Page 16

post #226 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by DashBerlin View Post

I was kind of joking about it kind of not,I have checked out all the different headphones and there are some that look and sound fantastic, but at the same time I just don't understand what makes a particular headphone so great that it cost's 5000 dollars or even 1000. If you do music or gaming for a living I can see it, but just for the everyday person who likes listening to music or playing games or whatever, I don't get it. I guess people will spend their money how they see fit no matter how ridiculous it is.

 

The reason I'm taking this stance is because there are people out there who are going hungry, there are problems all across the world that are extremely dire, and yet you have things that cost a couple of grand that I don't think should. Maybe someone can enlightened me here as to what makes these headphones so great that they cost that much and that the average person needs to buy a pair of headphones like that.
 

It's a matter of performance. Kind of like how more powerful CPU/ video cards are more expensive (and exponentially so), but a bit more complex than that.

post #227 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

It's a matter of performance. Kind of like how more powerful CPU/ video cards are more expensive (and exponentially so), but a bit more complex than that.


thats what i also was trying to say..thanks for the more simple explanation wink.gif

 

 
post #228 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post


I partly agree with u..yes u always have those who get a stax sr009 just because they have the money for it..only because its a stax..but i think most of the people here on headfi are people who love to listen to music..and in the best way they can afford..ofcourse a phone of 5000 is not definately 5 times better then a 1000 phone..but there is no denying that the stax is one heck of a phone..if i could miss the money i would buy one biggrin.gif but i cant..
So i have to disagree u saying people spending money on something they love to do and willing to spend more then in ur eyes is normal..its like tennis rackets..u have cheap ones and u have carbon thingies version costing a fortune..with the perfect weight and balance..if u can be a better player..why not if u wanna invest in it? Like me...the cars i owned..all were better when i sold them then when i bought them..i invested in them to get faster into corners, be more stabile on high speeds and brake better and go faster...if ur serious about ur hobby u do spend money in it..always! I cant imagine if u like playing those new pc games that u dont have a gaming proof laptop..as otherwise u can only play those in slooooow motion..i know at least two students who own a alienware laptop..and the price they told me made me fall backwards..as its a product they only use two years and then its consired old..so now back to ur remark saying its rediculus to spend so much amount of money on a headphone..well..u buy a higher end headphone for a long time..so its a long time investment..so compared to all other hobby thingies u can buy its actually not bad value for money..lolz..
And another thing..ur not forced to buy anything..if ur happy with a he300(249usd) then keep it..but u cant judge things on just what u have to pay for it.but yeah..the more expensive something gets the less value u get for money.thats the way of life regretfully..


I can't afford a high end pc for games. You can make your own computer and make it nice for around 1000-1200 online(which is really cheap), but I simply don't have the money for it nor do I really need it(just to play video games?) Car's are a bit different. Car's are a necessity for travel and transportation. The better the car the better it is getting to where your going. I still think its ridiculous for someone to pay a million dollars for a bugatti or an aston martin, yes they're really nice cars but do you really need a car that expensive? A jaguar or mercedes or an audi will get you there just as well when it comes down to it. Headphones are different from cars, they are not a necessity except to maybe people who do music for a living. I don't really think the majority of the people on this site do it for a living. Hobby's are hobby's and you can get a headphone for a few hundred dollars that you can enjoy.

 

I don't mean to ruin this thread or anything but after reading what everybody were saying about these over the priced headphones, I felt like chiming in. Spend your money on what you want, I can definitely see where if you have the money and you like something alot wanting to spend top dollar for the absolute best experience....but its not necessary.

post #229 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by DashBerlin View Post


I can't afford a high end pc for games. You can make your own computer and make it nice for around 1000-1200 online(which is really cheap), but I simply don't have the money for it nor do I really need it(just to play video games?) Car's are a bit different. Car's are a necessity for travel and transportation. The better the car the better it is getting to where your going. I still think its ridiculous for someone to pay a million dollars for a bugatti or an aston martin, yes they're really nice cars but do you really need a car that expensive? A jaguar or mercedes or an audi will get you there just as well when it comes down to it. Headphones are different from cars, they are not a necessity except to maybe people who do music for a living. I don't really think the majority of the people on this site do it for a living. Hobby's are hobby's and you can get a headphone for a few hundred dollars that you can enjoy.

 

I don't mean to ruin this thread or anything but after reading what everybody were saying about these over the priced headphones, I felt like chiming in. Spend your money on what you want, I can definitely see where if you have the money and you like something alot wanting to spend top dollar for the absolute best experience....but its not necessary.

yeah know about homemade pc's.. i am actually assembling one at this moment (see my pics)

but then look from this point of view....i have a very stressful job..most of my collegues stayed home with some kind of a burnout at a certain moment...i am one of the few who didnt..and i think its because i can completly relax because of my music..before i go to bed i always put on music on my headphones..as i found it relaxing...i tried many other (cheaper ones) phones..but i found out that with 'lesser' (or brighter more agressive sounding) phones i couldnt listen as long as with my he500 (the he300 is an exception by the way, for that money its a steal!!!!)...with one i even got headaches after listening for a longer period of time because of the peak in tremble! as when i  listen to music i feel the stress flow out of me..i even sometimes fall alseep with my he500 on and my wife has to wake me up in the middle of the night biggrin.gif...so for me at least the investment of 699usd is a well made one..for me it helps me in relaxing after a stressful day..

ofcourse it always comes back in what ur willing to spend..its not a necesity..

 

but i think we are derailing from the topic on this thread ..lets say people have different opinions in this matter.and have an end of this discussion...lets go back to the thread..wink.gif


Edited by hifimanrookie - 12/10/12 at 2:34am
post #230 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by DashBerlin View Post


I can't afford a high end pc for games. You can make your own computer and make it nice for around 1000-1200 online(which is really cheap), but I simply don't have the money for it nor do I really need it(just to play video games?) Car's are a bit different. Car's are a necessity for travel and transportation. The better the car the better it is getting to where your going. I still think its ridiculous for someone to pay a million dollars for a bugatti or an aston martin, yes they're really nice cars but do you really need a car that expensive? A jaguar or mercedes or an audi will get you there just as well when it comes down to it. Headphones are different from cars, they are not a necessity except to maybe people who do music for a living. I don't really think the majority of the people on this site do it for a living. Hobby's are hobby's and you can get a headphone for a few hundred dollars that you can enjoy.

 

I don't mean to ruin this thread or anything but after reading what everybody were saying about these over the priced headphones, I felt like chiming in. Spend your money on what you want, I can definitely see where if you have the money and you like something alot wanting to spend top dollar for the absolute best experience....but its not necessary.

Nothing about spending for entertainment is "necessary", you spend as much as you are willing for the maximum amount of entertainment you're gonna get. It applies to everything from sports equipment, to video gaming PC rigs, to headphones, to hookers even (if you're into that). 

 

It is perfectly alright to be frugal, but frugality isn't for everyone.

post #231 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

Nothing about spending for entertainment is "necessary", you spend as much as you are willing for the maximum amount of entertainment you're gonna get. It applies to everything from sports equipment, to video gaming PC rigs, to headphones, to hookers even (if you're into that). 

It is perfectly alright to be frugal, but frugality isn't for everyone.
Hookers huh? Is that a hobby? Cool! biggrin.gif kidding!!!!!!
But seriously..i agree completely here..everyone is free to spend what he want on what he needs or wants..
Edited by hifimanrookie - 12/10/12 at 2:47am
post #232 of 353

As far as I am concerned the only thing you need is certains skills and you can live for free in the woods, but I don't think it would be enjoyable for a longer period of time. As a poor person I have to be cheap with everything else in order to afford nice headphones redface.gif.

post #233 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by DashBerlin View Post

 I can definitely see where if you have the money and you like something alot wanting to spend top dollar for the absolute best experience....

If you had just stopped there without the last little comment, you would have been spot on the money. tongue.gif

 

Disposable income, in my world at least, is to be spent on whatever brings me happiness. Good food, traveling, and music are three of my current priorities.

 

Sinking a few grand into a hobby is nothing strange (depending on your income/age). I actually am fairly pleased I found a hobby that brings me joy as inexpensively as headphones. If I had decided to get into high end guitars/pianos/violins, the damage could have been far worse. L3000.gif

post #234 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by HideousPride View Post

If you had just stopped there without the last little comment, you would have been spot on the money. tongue.gif

 

Disposable income, in my world at least, is to be spent on whatever brings me happiness. Good food, traveling, and music are three of my current priorities.

 

Sinking a few grand into a hobby is nothing strange (depending on your income/age). I actually am fairly pleased I found a hobby that brings me joy as inexpensively as headphones. If I had decided to get into high end guitars/pianos/violins, the damage could have been far worse. L3000.gif

We have some things in common then, though reading this thread I got a bit intrested in buying a pair of hd800 so I might have to ease up on the food and traveling.

post #235 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post


Hookers huh? Is that a hobby? Cool! biggrin.gif kidding!!!!!!
But seriously..i agree completely here..everyone is free to spend what he want on what he needs or wants..


Again I'm not trying to tell people that they absolutely should not spend a ton of money on headphones, people will do as they please when it comes down to it, I'm just taking the standpoint that I think most of the people on here probably don't make a ton of money(like me) and if your going to spend your money wisely paying 1500 for the new hd 800(which do look and sound great) is not being wise. But again I'm a anonymous stranger to everyone on here so my opinion shouldn't hold any sway. If you want to spend the money and you enjoy it go for it, I just can't afford to take the risk of not having enough of something else that is a necessity to do it,or regretting it down the line.

 

I would agree that we should get back to the original topic of discussion. I do actually love headphones and to me I think the T1's are a bit better by beyerdynamic and they go for less. Then again I've only listened to both once or twice each so I haven't got the full experience of either. What I'm wondering is how do the ultrasone edition 8 stack up to these two?

post #236 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by DashBerlin View Post


Again I'm not trying to tell people that they absolutely should not spend a ton of money on headphones, people will do as they please when it comes down to it, I'm just taking the standpoint that I think most of the people on here probably don't make a ton of money(like me) and if your going to spend your money wisely paying 1500 for the new hd 800(which do look and sound great) is not being wise. But again I'm a anonymous stranger to everyone on here so my opinion shouldn't hold any sway. If you want to spend the money and you enjoy it go for it, I just can't afford to take the risk of not having enough of something else that is a necessity to do it,or regretting it down the line.

I would agree that we should get back to the original topic of discussion. I do actually love headphones and to me I think the T1's are a bit better by beyerdynamic and they go for less. Then again I've only listened to both once or twice each so I haven't got the full experience of either. What I'm wondering is how do the ultrasone edition 8 stack up to these two?
Why not try a he500..its a steal compared to the t1 and hd800..lolz..and now back to topic biggrin.gif
post #237 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

Looks like you've misinterpreted things here wrong a few times tonight. Headphone measurements and previous comments about The Trailer Park Boys. When you get a chance, please read those articles.

Lol? You have yet to explain the HD800s graphs, as your homework here are two questions to even have a valid arguement.
Try explain its high sub 100hz distortion.
Try explain its sharp square waves.

I have a few electronics and electrical books I can provide you the names of if you need help with theory or understanding of terms/graphs.
post #238 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Docks View Post


Lol? You have yet to explain the HD800s graphs, as your homework here are two questions to even have a valid arguement.
Try explain its high sub 100hz distortion.
Try explain its sharp square waves.
I have a few electronics and electrical books I can provide you the names of if you need help with theory or understanding of terms/graphs.

 

I guess you haven't read those articles yet? rolleyes.gif Please show me a better 30Hz square wave than the HD800 (except for the LCD-2/3) or better 300Hz square wave (except for a Stax headphone)? You can't. So there's that. Now onto distortion, please show me a better distortion at 20Hz (again a frequency nothing is really happening anyway). Are some better like the HE-6s? A wee bit, but what does that actually mean sonically?....Tyll has mentioned this before that this measurement is VERY difficult to accurately measure and the one he has the least amount of confidence in. If you had bothered to read my article on "Measurement Systems" you would see that just because one has a reading off of one experiment, doesn't mean much unless one understands the repeatability and precision of said measurement system. And again, they (HD800's distortion) look darn good when compared to other top flight headphones. Throw in the fact that the higher distortion readings in green and yellow are at 100dB. eek.gif The 90dB readings look pretty darn good. 

 

You are the only one hear saying that the HD800s do not measure well; while other way more seasoned headphone veterans (like Tyll) say they are among the very best measuring headphones out there. I know who I'm gonna side with. wink.gif

 

You're also forgetting the waterfall plots of the HD800s and they are among the cleanest there is and compete with the SR-009s. 

 

958ed40c_HD800.txt.jpeg

 

 

As well, another Head-fier asked you what rig you heard the HD800s on? You have yet to respond. Please enlighten us?


Edited by MacedonianHero - 12/10/12 at 1:46pm
post #239 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Docks View Post


If you want, feel free to IM me and we can chat over msn or google talk. I can address your questions if you are truly curious.

 

Sorry, I don't chat on either of those. And anyway, we have a whole happenin' thread here to hold this discussion.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Docks View Post


Lol? You have yet to explain the HD800s graphs, as your homework here are two questions to even have a valid arguement.
Try explain its high sub 100hz distortion.
Try explain its sharp square waves.
I have a few electronics and electrical books I can provide you the names of if you need help with theory or understanding of terms/graphs.

 

 

These are relevant to acoustics how?

 

1000

 

Let's break it down a bit:

 

Claim 1: high sub-100hz harmonic distortion

 a) in comparison to other phones?

   No, not at all. The 90db figures are comparative to good orthos and the overall figures are at the very top tier of electrodynamics. Cf. HD650, K701, T1, etc.

b) in terms of objective standards of audibility?

   Again, no. The commonly accepted threshold for THD in listening tests is -40db. At 90db the HD800s are well below that and only hit the just noticeable difference at 100db+ peaks. Further, most people aren't very sensitive to sub-100hz harmonic distortion and more often than not high levels of it are viewed positively because they lead to the impression of a fuller bass.

 

Claim 2: sharp square waves

 a) what do square waves have to do with headphones?

   Not much, really. To begin with, the square wave frequency choices are arbitrary.I could take a 5khz square wave and make every headphone look like crap, does that mean that the measurement reflects reality? Likewise, few headphones and few (really) good speakers are going to have neat and tidy square waves at 30hz - and with good reason. Such near-infrasonic frequencies are rare in music and most headphones are tuned to either a gentle downward slope or tuned to sloppy, flappy ultrasone-like +10db filtering from the lower mids down.

 b) so why use them?

   They are an alternate method of visualizing patterns in frequency response. Square waves will tell you nothing that isn't already in the basic frequency response curve (which is easier to read and correlates much better to what you actually hear). Yes, Tyll likes them and I respect his knowledge, but in the analysis section of IF reviews the comments regarding square waves usually come off about as exact as divination from chicken bones.

 

Earlier you mentioned impedance. Yes, the HD800s have a big ol' high curve. So what? Get a decent amplifier and you won't have a problem. These are clearly headphones for home use, I don't expect them to be friendly to portable sources.

post #240 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

I guess you haven't read those articles yet? rolleyes.gif  Please show me a better 30Hz square wave than the HD800 (except for the LCD-2/3) or better 300Hz square wave (except for a Stax headphone)? You can't. So there's that. Now onto distortion, please show me a better distortion at 20Hz (again a frequency nothing is really happening anyway). Are some better like the HE-6s? A wee bit, but what does that actually mean sonically?....Tyll has mentioned this before that this measurement is VERY difficult to accurately measure and the one he has the least amount of confidence in. If you had bothered to read my article on "Measurement Systems" you would see that just because one has a reading off of one experiment, doesn't mean much unless one understands the repeatability and precision of said measurement system. And again, they (HD800's distortion) look darn good when compared to other top flight headphones. Throw in the fact that the higher distortion readings in green and yellow are at 100dB. eek.gif  The 90dB readings look pretty darn good. 

You are the only one hear saying that the HD800s do not measure well; while other way more seasoned headphone veterans (like Tyll) say they are among the very best measuring headphones out there. I know who I'm gonna side with. wink.gif

You're also forgetting the waterfall plots of the HD800s and they are among the cleanest there is and compete with the SR-009s. 

958ed40c_HD800.txt.jpeg


As well, another Head-fier asked you what rig you heard the HD800s on? You have yet to respond. Please enlighten us?

So the LCD2s have better 30hz AND 300hz square waves than the HD800, while the HD 800s are merely average (and more expensive).
Regarding your 100-20hz even look at a joke of a headphone - Monster beats tour - less distortion below 100hz to 20hz AND less distortion in its phase heh.
Again, the entire point of my argument here is that the HD 800s are painful for electronic music, the distortion and square waves just don't lie.
The HD800s are grossly overrated considering the performance for electronic music and considering the price.
Your waterfall does not address the easily distorted bass and painful highs either (but it does highlight a 5-6khz peak where the ear is very sensitive).
Edited by Docks - 12/10/12 at 1:55pm
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