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Does it get much better than the HD800? - Page 14

post #196 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Docks View Post


Yes, I couldn't justify even spending 200 on them. Not my style, btw bass is in fact rolled off on them - look at freq response.

 

If it's bass you want that's fine, that's your style; you can always eq it up. Unless, that is, the 'phone will distort to all hell below 100hz at high SPLs. I dare you to name an electrodynamic for 200$ that will respond as well to electrical damping mods and eq in maintaining as tight and linear elevated bass response as the HD800. The DT770, while not a bad headphone, doesn't come anywhere near the HD800 in any criteria I can think of (excepting a taste for a smiley eq tonality).

 

This is foregoing the pricing of headphones being more than an arbitrary optimization of what the market is willing to pay - the HD800s aren't cheap to make.

post #197 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by anetode View Post

If it's bass you want that's fine, that's your style; you can always eq it up. Unless, that is, the 'phone will distort to all hell below 100hz at high SPLs. I dare you to name an electrodynamic for 200$ that will respond as well to electrical damping mods and eq in maintaining as tight and linear elevated bass response as the HD800. The DT770, while not a bad headphone, doesn't come anywhere near the HD800 in any criteria I can think of (excepting a taste for a smiley eq tonality).

This is foregoing the pricing of headphones being more than an arbitrary optimization of what the market is willing to pay - the HD800s aren't cheap to make.

I don't much like EQ (wasted bits), I'm not saying the 770 is a better can either lol (bass bump and 10khz peak). I'm saying that the hd800 "frowny face" eq isn't the end game for all (rolled off bass after 100hz and sharp square waves verify my listening impressions), and certainly not for me on any level considering my taste in electronic music they are very disappointing/harsh/overpriced.

I can't see these being enjoyable on anything except classical music.

PS - Tubes are overrated and add too much distortion + lack proper dynamics for faithful reproduction of classical music.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800B.pdf
Edited by Docks - 12/8/12 at 8:14am
post #198 of 357

Sub

post #199 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Docks View Post


I don't much like EQ (wasted bits), I'm not saying the 770 is a better can either lol (bass bump and 10khz peak). I'm saying that the hd800 "frowny face" eq isn't the end game for all (rolled off bass after 100hz and sharp square waves verify my listening impressions), and certainly not for me on any level considering my taste in electronic music they are very disappointing/harsh/overpriced.
I can't see these being enjoyable on anything except classical music.
PS - Tubes are overrated and add too much distortion + lack proper dynamics for faithful reproduction of classical music.
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800B.pdf

Ummm...the bass on the HD800s is pretty flat down to 20Hz. Does it roll off at 10Hz, sure, but we can't hear down that low. wink.gif

 

If you want to see rolled off bass, here's what that looks like:

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudioTechnicaATHW5000.pdf

 

The HD800s have amongst the best quality bass I've ever heard and offer so much more than those "thumpy bass headphones" that offer boomy and floppy bass and lack in detail and control.

 

Oh and your generalization about tubes is just that and not very helpful here IMO.


Edited by MacedonianHero - 12/9/12 at 5:35pm
post #200 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

Ummm...the bass on the HD800s is pretty flat down to 20Hz. Does it roll off at 10Hz, sure, but we can't hear down that low. wink.gif

 

If you want to see rolled off bass, here's what that looks like:

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudioTechnicaATHW5000.pdf

 

The HD800s have amongst the best quality bass I've ever heard and offer so much more than those "thumpy bass headphones" that offer boomy and floppy bass and lack in detail and control.

 

Oh and your generalization about tubes is just that and not very helpful here IMO.

 

The W5000s are just bad, let's not even talk about these.
"Pretty flat" isn't flat and considering its roll off combined with its fatiguing sound makes it a poor choice for electronic music. Bashing "thumpy bass headphones" does not magically make the HD800 any less harsh.
The HD800 has higher than average distortion below 100hz and sharp square waves, once again confirming my experiences with them. The objective measurements pretty much sum up my subjective experiences with the HD800s.

post #201 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Docks View Post

 

The W5000s are just bad, let's not even talk about these.
"Pretty flat" isn't flat and considering its roll off combined with its fatiguing sound makes it a poor choice for electronic music. Bashing "thumpy bass headphones" does not magically make the HD800 any less harsh.
The HD800 has higher than average distortion below 100hz and sharp square waves, once again confirming my experiences with them. The objective measurements pretty much sum up my subjective experiences with the HD800s.

The other thing with the HD800s is garbage in = garbage out. Feed them garbage or power them with sub-par gear, then they will underwhelm you. They are among the top 3 headphones I've ever heard (right after the SR-009s and LCD-3s) . And with regards to measurements, the HD800s are among the very best. Tyll mentioned this to me several times to me when we worked together on the article we published with regards to headphone measurements and their respective repeatability. And I'm gonna have to defer to Tyll's expertise in this area. tongue.gif

 

Sorry but your DT770/80s are among the furthest from "transparent" headphones that I've heard. They have overblown bass that bleeds into the mids, is wooly and far from detailed. If that amount of bass is your standard for "good bass", then I can certainly see why the HD800s wouldn't be for you. smile.gif

 

Yes, they are pretty flat. There is not much of a roll off to speak of. Please tell us how a 5db roll off at 10-20Hz is a roll off when the lowest a human ear can hear is 20Hz? Is there some bass roll off when compared to the LCD-3s and SR-009s? A bit, but not much and with regards to bass quality, the HD800s certainly hold their own. In musical recordings, not much going on at 20Hz and less (and neither can humans even detect it). With regards objective measurements...they can always be incorrectly subjectively interpreted.

 

Sorry, I think you're mis-reading these graphs and strongly suggest you read into this further.


Edited by MacedonianHero - 12/9/12 at 8:04pm
post #202 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

The other thing with the HD800s is garbage in = garbage out. Feed them garbage or power them with sub-par gear, then they will underwhelm you. They are among the top 3 headphones I've ever heard (right after the SR-009s and LCD-3s) . And with regards to measurements, the HD800s are among the very best. Tyll mentioned this to me several times to me when we worked together on the article we published with regards to headphone measurements and their respective repeatability. And I'm gonna have to defer to Tyll's expertise in this area. tongue.gif

 

Sorry but your DT770/80s are among the furthest from "transparent" headphones that I've heard. They have overblown bass that bleeds into the mids, is wooly and far from detailed. If that amount of bass is your standard for "good bass", then I can certainly see why the HD800s wouldn't be for you. smile.gif

 

Yes, they are pretty flat. There is not much of a roll off to speak of. Please tell us how a 5db roll off at 10-20Hz is a roll off when the lowest a human ear can hear is 20Hz? Is there some bass roll off when compared to the LCD-3s and SR-009s? A bit, but not much and with regards to bass quality, the HD800s certainly hold their own. In musical recordings, not much going on at 20Hz and less (and neither can humans even detect it). With regards objective measurements...they can always be incorrectly subjectively interpreted.

 

Sorry, I think you're mis-reading these graphs and strongly suggest you read into this further.

 

Attacks on my ~$200 personal headphones... nice. Unfortunately I never once said my 770s were a superior can, I said the HD800s are Sub par at that price and a poor choice for electronic music.

For over a grand you have rolled off bass below ~90hz, higher than average distortion bass below 100hz, sharp square waves, ~250ohm impedance swings (and the phase shift that follows that) and a harsh can that sounds sub par for the type of music many people listen to. (How can this be misreading? It sounds like you have not looked at the graph at all)

You cannot debate this - its measurements just aren't that good.

I suggest you look at the HD800 graph I posted a few replies back in a bit more depth and compare them to a well designed can (Audeze as an example).

post #203 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Docks View Post

its measurements just aren't that good.
rolleyes.gif quoted for posterity
post #204 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draygonn View Post

rolleyes.gif quoted for posterity


More personal attacks... from a man with an avatar of Ricky with the word "dope" in it. wink.gif


Edited by Docks - 12/9/12 at 8:45pm
post #205 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Docks View Post


an avatar of Ricky with the word "dope" in it. wink.gif
I don't think Ricky measures well at anything other than being laughed at biggrin.gif
Edited by Draygonn - 12/10/12 at 11:44am
post #206 of 357
Lol.
post #207 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draygonn View Post

rolleyes.gif quoted for posterity

smily_headphones1.gif in actuality they are among the very best measuring headphones out there.
post #208 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

Lol.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draygonn View Post

I don't think he measures well at anything other than being laughed at biggrin.gif


*Sigh*

I honestly expected more from you guys. When an argument is lost one has to resort to personal attacks?

post #209 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post


smily_headphones1.gif in actuality they are among the very best measuring headphones out there.


Did you even look at the HD800 graphs i posted earlier yet?

post #210 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Docks View Post





*Sigh*
I honestly expected more from you guys. When an argument is lost one has to resort to personal attacks?

Since when did laughing at Ricky on the Trailer Park boys become a personal attack? As well, please don't confuse critiquing gear (like your DT770s) and personal attacks. They are very different in reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draygonn

I don't think he (meaning Ricky) measures well at anything other than being laughed at

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero

Lol.


This was purely in regards to Ricky on the Trailer Park Boys and being laughed at. There was nothing personal about either comment..
Edited by MacedonianHero - 12/9/12 at 9:27pm
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