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Wolfson DAC confirmed for Galaxy S3! - Page 30

post #436 of 947
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

 

Because the part that matters in a DAC, is the chip itself, not the heavy, fancy looking metal case with a table sized circuit board with lots of useless and unnecessary additional components that don't improve the sound. :P    I'm not saying Galaxy S + Bellari Ha540 is better than M1DAC + Bellari Ha540, I'm saying is absolutely identical, down to the slightest nuance possible to hear by undamaged young ears. :P   On paper DAC in M1 is superior, but those advantaged its got, are beyond the point of diminishing return, and in order to be experienced, I'd probably need a seriously high end headphone + amp setup.

 

Its similar to how a small amp that is basically a wire with gain like O2 can sound as good as a much more expensive and bigger amp, as it was confirmed by many blind tests, there's a thread here on this forum about it.

 

This seems to completely ignore the fact that many things outside of the DAC influence the quality of the output in a phone  - for instance the LG 2x using the same Wolfson as the S1 produces markedly inferior sound (measured objectively by Supercurio). This is partly because of the internal hardware set up of the phone in relation to things like shielding/CPU noise and all the other radios in the phone, and partly because of software layers the manufacturer may have set between the DAC and the headphone output (again objectively proven by Supercurio using an S1 pre- and post- Voodoo).

 

To my ear and with my equipment the S3 sounds noticeably better via an E7, YMMV. For one thing there are no crackles in the output with the S3s screen off when listening via the E7 because all the audio is handled by the E7, rather than in the S3 where some kind of power-saving setting is causing the crackles (again, a problem in sound quality that has nothing whatsoever to do with the merits of the DAC in the S3).

 

Once we get Voodoo Sound I expect the difference will be too small to want to bother with using an external DAC, but up until that point in time I'll be using my E7.


Edited by NZtechfreak - 6/30/12 at 5:58pm
post #437 of 947

...What he said lol!

 

NZtechfreak, you hit the nail so far on the head thst it isn't funny lol...  maybe I should get you to write my posts from now on lol!

post #438 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by NZtechfreak View Post

This seems to completely ignore the fact that many things outside of the DAC influence the quality of the output in a phone  - for instance the LG 2x using the same Wolfson as the S1 produces markedly inferior sound (measured objectively by Supercurio). This is partly because of the internal hardware set up of the phone in relation to things like shielding/CPU noise and all the other radios in the phone, and partly because of software layers the manufacturer may have set between the DAC and the headphone output (again objectively proven by Supercurio using an S1 pre- and post- Voodoo).

To my ear and with my equipment the S3 sounds noticeably better via an E7, YMMV. For one thing there are no crackles in the output with the S3s screen off when listening via the E7 because all the audio is handled by the E7, rather than in the S3 where some kind of power-saving setting is causing the crackles (again, a problem in sound quality that has nothing whatsoever to do with the merits of the DAC in the S3).

Once we get Voodoo Sound I expect the difference will be too small to want to bother with using an external DAC, but up until that point in time I'll be using my E7.



Good points. Thanks... All those talks of voodoo sound,.,. Please guys keep us updated on the progress if possible.

I check supercurio on twitter... Not finding any updates lately.... : (
post #439 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by NZtechfreak View Post

 

This seems to completely ignore the fact that many things outside of the DAC influence the quality of the output in a phone  - for instance the LG 2x using the same Wolfson as the S1 produces markedly inferior sound (measured objectively by Supercurio). This is partly because of the internal hardware set up of the phone in relation to things like shielding/CPU noise and all the other radios in the phone, and partly because of software layers the manufacturer may have set between the DAC and the headphone output (again objectively proven by Supercurio using an S1 pre- and post- Voodoo).

 

To my ear and with my equipment the S3 sounds noticeably better via an E7, YMMV. For one thing there are no crackles in the output with the S3s screen off when listening via the E7 because all the audio is handled by the E7, rather than in the S3 where some kind of power-saving setting is causing the crackles (again, a problem in sound quality that has nothing whatsoever to do with the merits of the DAC in the S3).

 

Once we get Voodoo Sound I expect the difference will be too small to want to bother with using an external DAC, but up until that point in time I'll be using my E7.

 

 

It doesn't matter, the point is, Galaxy S1 sounds amazing as a source.  And the reason why you hear the improvement with E7, is because of the amp inside E7, not because of the DAC.   When I plug my headphones into Galaxy S directly, it sounds ... like a phone, pretty bad, its all too weak, muddy, etc.  But when I plug the amp into the Galaxy S, and then headphones into the amp, it sounds absolutely amazing, in fact, too good to be true when compared to pretty expensive stand alone DAC which doesn't sound in any way better.

post #440 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post


It doesn't matter, the point is, Galaxy S1 sounds amazing as a source.  And the reason why you hear the improvement with E7, is because of the amp inside E7, not because of the DAC.   When I plug my headphones into Galaxy S directly, it sounds ... like a phone, pretty bad, its all too weak, muddy, etc.  But when I plug the amp into the Galaxy S, and then headphones into the amp, it sounds absolutely amazing, in fact, too good to be true when compared to pretty expensive stand alone DAC which doesn't sound in any way better.

But if the amp inside the phone is crappy,... An external portable amp is basically amplifying the poor sound signals.... So ideally is to find a way of bypassing the internal amp right??

Can voodoo do that? I hope so, but I guess not: (

So what to do,... What to do.... The stupid internal amp is caught in the middle screwing up our sound: (
post #441 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisztian420 View Post


But if the amp inside the phone is crappy,... An external portable amp is basically amplifying the poor sound signals.... So ideally is to find a way of bypassing the internal amp right??
Can voodoo do that? I hope so, but I guess not: (
So what to do,... What to do.... The stupid internal amp is caught in the middle screwing up our sound: (

 

 

Well I think the amp inside the phone is not crappy in terms of sound quality, but its crappy in terms of not having any power, and it simply cannot push any headphone to sound good.  If you connect the amp into the phone however, then the amp in the phone acts only as a preamp, it doesn't have to directly power the headphones.  And signals that go from phone to headphone amp are very clear.  Otherwise, it wouldn't sound so good in that setup, right?

 

Also, I don't have any voodoo or any mods.  My phone is stock completely, I don't even use any special music players, just using the basic player that comes with the android OS.

post #442 of 947
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

 

 

It doesn't matter, the point is, Galaxy S1 sounds amazing as a source.  And the reason why you hear the improvement with E7, is because of the amp inside E7, not because of the DAC.   When I plug my headphones into Galaxy S directly, it sounds ... like a phone, pretty bad, its all too weak, muddy, etc.  But when I plug the amp into the Galaxy S, and then headphones into the amp, it sounds absolutely amazing, in fact, too good to be true when compared to pretty expensive stand alone DAC which doesn't sound in any way better.

 

You seem set on forwarding your view here without really reading what other actually have to say.

 

It is not only the amp inside the E7 making a difference, it is also that it removes audio handling entirely from the S3, so those crackles related to CPU governance in the S3 don't make any appearances.

 

I'm sure the S3 will be a very good source with Voodoo, just as the Galaxy S1 is, and punch above it's weight just like the S1 does. That doesn't alter the fact that your stance is not entirely correct.


Edited by NZtechfreak - 7/2/12 at 3:05am
post #443 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

Well I think the amp inside the phone is not crappy in terms of sound quality, but its crappy in terms of not having any power, and it simply cannot push any headphone to sound good.

Do you mean it doesn't get loud enough? "it cannot push any headphones to sound good" sounds vague and mysterious (should I say "magical"?).
Edited by skamp - 7/2/12 at 3:35am
post #444 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by NZtechfreak View Post

It is not only the amp inside the E7 making a difference, it is also that it removes audio handling entirely from the S3, so those crackles related to CPU governance in the S3 don't make any appearances.

So the "zomg WOLFSON DAC" is completely useless then?
post #445 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by skamp View Post


So the "zomg WOLFSON DAC" is completely useless then?

 

No. Why do people listen to those who did not test things thoroughly...meh, whatever.

 

I'm telling you, the DAC inside the phone is excellent, and sounds excellent. Believe it, or don't believe it, your choice.

Here are some measurements for you:

http://dl.project-voodoo.org/RMAA/reports/nfb-12-galaxys-voodoosound-load-hd650.htm

And note that is measured without an external amp on the galaxy S, while the nfb-12 has a powerful amp inside it. If Galaxy S had a better headphone amp inside it, the measurements would be even better.

 

The only reason NZtechfreak heard an improvement in sound when he plugged in the E7 is because of the amp. I challenge him to plug in a pure amp, without a DAC inside, and he will hear the same improvement.

That's the same reason why I hear a MONUMENTAL, night and day difference between using the headphone out of the phone, and using a good quality amp between the phone and headphones. It literally goes from sounding like muddy quiet mess, to sounding unbelievably good by any standard. As I said already, impossible to tell which is which in a blind test between Galaxy S and a 800$ DAC.

 

And there is no crackling when using the Galaxy S as source, I never heard any crackling, or distortions, or anything of that sort.


Edited by derbigpr - 7/2/12 at 4:01am
post #446 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by skamp View Post


Do you mean it doesn't get loud enough? "it cannot push any headphones to sound good" sounds vague and mysterious (should I say "magical"?).

 

 

Its just a weak amp. It doesnt have any power, therefore cannot run headphones to even comfortable listening level, and cant run the headphone with authority, which makes them sound quiet, underpowered, muddy, uncontrolled, etc. It's not a bad sounding amp by nature, its just not designed to run full sized headphones, and its lack of power makes it sound bad with full sized headphones.  Its like attaching a 10000 pound heavy trailer to a small car. That will make the car slow, its gonna barely be able to get off the line, but it doesn't mean the car is slow by itself, without the trailer attached. Now, if you attach that trailer to a big truck, then you're talking.


Edited by derbigpr - 7/2/12 at 4:05am
post #447 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

And there is no crackling when using the Galaxy S as source, I never heard any crackling, or distortions, or anything of that sort.

This needs confirmation. I used to hear digital noise every time my HTC Legend played a new track, bloody annoying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

It doesnt have any power, therefore cannot run headphones to even comfortable listening level

Not loud enough it is, then. What headphones have you tried? What impedance and sensitivity?

If a flagship smartphone produces background noise (to be confirmed), and if it can't even power regular, portable, low impedance, high sensitivity headphones, then it's a pretty poor choice as a portable digital audio player. At least my Galaxy Nexus is dead silent, and is more than loud enough with such headphones (louder than my former Galaxy S, which I had to max out).
Edited by skamp - 7/2/12 at 4:23am
post #448 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by skamp View Post


This needs confirmation. I used to hear digital noise every time my HTC Legend played a new track, bloody annoying.
Not loud enough it is, then. What headphones have you tried? What impedance and sensitivity?
If a flagship smartphone produces background noise (to be confirmed), and if it can't even power regular, portable, low impedance, high sensitivity headphones, then it's a pretty poor choice as a portable digital audio player. At least my Galaxy Nexus is dead silent, and is more than loud enough with such headphones (louder than my former Galaxy S, which I had to max out).

 

 

I just confirmed it has no noise, its dead silent. HTC Legend and Samsung Galaxy S are not the same thing, not even by a long shot.  Samsung Galaxy S is known for having great potential as a source.

 

And I'm not saying Galaxy S is to be used as a portable player on its own, but to be used as a DAC, with a separate amp, because without an amp, it wont sound great with any headphone. Using an amp with it changes the sound quality so much its hard to believe that its coming from the same source, and I'm gonna repeat again, its not possible to tell which is which in a blind A-B test between the Galaxy S and a Musical Fidelity M1DAC.

 

You can see headphones that I use in my signature. They're everything but easy to drive portable headphones.


Edited by derbigpr - 7/2/12 at 4:59am
post #449 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

You can see headphones that I use in my signature. They're everything but easy to drive portable headphones.

Then don't say the S3 can't drive any headphones to comfortable listening levels. The S3 is a portable device, designed for use with portable (presumably low impedance, high sensitivity) headphones.
post #450 of 947

Yes, it's important to choose the right headphone if it's only to be driven by a phone.

 

In my case I finally settled for the Sony MDR-ZX700, they are easily driven by the international SIII and by using the Volume+ app it's possible to play way too loud ie causing hearing damage, no external amplifier necessary in any way  :)

 

For the SIII I can heartfully recommend MDR-ZX700 as they are a very good match not only by volume but also because the ZX700 gives a clean neutral HiFi type of sound, something I already had been suspecting as the SIII easily drives my big MDR-CD770 and the old MDR-V300.

 

Sony-cans seems to be the preference for the Samsung heaphone output which btw is a very good output: Supercurio measured slightly below 3 Ohms of output impedance which is good and the THD+IM is actually lower than on the line output from the DAC.

 

If you're an extreme headfier I would go for the Sony 7520 to match the SIII, which is in the same form factor as the MDR-ZX700 and probably similarly easily driven, only 7-8 times more expensive and by any guess a whole lot better,


Edited by xeizo - 7/2/12 at 5:34am
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