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Epiphany Acoustics E-DAC / JDSlabs ODAC / Head 'n' Hifi ODAC / ~ discussion - Page 4

post #46 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by khaos974 View Post

Do you know how the the ES9023Bis implemented in the AKD-23S and in the ODAC, if you do please explain to me how the implementations are similar.

The measured performance of the ES9023 and the ES9018 aren't even close, enough said.

I think anyone that believes the ODAC has crossed the line into total transparency will most likely believe the AKD-23S has as well, right? so... these two DAC's should sound identical, edit: from that POV.

Likewise, that indicates the Buffalo DAC using ES9018 will sound identical too, there is only one kind of transparency, i.e. the DAC is "not there".

The most apparent differences I can see, the AKD-23S uses a different USB module (HiFace) and the LME49610.

If you believe that the ODAC has crossed the threshold of audibility, it]'s coherent say that if you heard a Benchmark, a Weiss, a Lavry, a Prism, a DacMagic, or a MF DAC1, you know how the ODAC sounds, since they all sound the same.
If you don't believe the that the threshold of audibility was crossed, then you should also know that between the first and the latest revision of the ODAC, both of them using the ES9023, some 10-15 dB of dynamic rage was gained, implementation is everything.

So saying that 2 DACs sound the same, considering you have no idea of how the DAC chips were implemented is a tad presumptuous, unless you consider that hthe AKD-23S has achieved perfect transparency.

So if I understanf your pov, the Weiss DAC 202, the Oppo BD-95 and the Anedio D2 all sound the same? They all use the ES9018 after all.
Edited by khaos974 - 5/8/12 at 9:03am
post #47 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

I think anyone that believes the ODAC has crossed the line into total transparency will most likely believe the AKD-23S has as well, right? so... these two DAC's should sound identical, edit: from that POV.

 

Likewise, that indicates the Buffalo DAC using ES9018 will sound identical too, there is only one kind of transparency, i.e. the DAC is "not there".

 

Not really.  The specific DAC chip isn't all that important.  You might as well say that a freight train should be faster than a race car since the freight train has so much more horsepower...

post #48 of 68
Thread Starter 

Well, I didn't mean to say the AKD-23S and ODAC sound the same, I'm reserving that for until I hear them, if I said that I take it back then.

 

Yep it's true he achieved within 1dB dynamic range of the spec., I'm not sure how to listen for extreme dynamic range to be honest, I just listen to the character / signature of a DAC, and performance i.e. detail and imaging etc.

 

It seems counter-intuitive that all those DAC's you mentioned should sound the same, i.e. they've all crossed the line into transparency, I don't quite believe that intuitively and it's difficult to prove since speakers, headphones and IEM's are not totally transparent in the first place.

 

Still I think the ODAC should be a great price / performance product.

post #49 of 68
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by maverickronin View Post

You might as well say that a freight train should be faster than a race car since the freight train has so much more horsepower...

 

More like a certain PC monitor has crossed all lines of human visual perception, so any further improvements are invisible etc.  Refresh rate, millions of colours, colour accuracy, latency, resolution, etc.

post #50 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

More like a certain PC monitor has crossed all lines of human visual perception, so any further improvements are invisible etc.  Refresh rate, millions of colours, colour accuracy, latency, resolution, etc.

 

If you manage to find one let me know.

post #51 of 68
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by maverickronin View Post

 

If you manage to find one let me know.

 

Haha, likewise if you find a totally transparent IEM (or speaker review) let me know.  Enjoy your PFE232, it's a very impressive sounding IEM.

post #52 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

Haha, likewise if you find a totally transparent IEM (or speaker review) let me know.  Enjoy your PFE232, it's a very impressive sounding IEM.

 

I'm really liking the PFE232s but the transducers are almost always the weak link.

post #53 of 68
Thread Starter 

You mean transducers are the weakest link to transparency?  It seems that way given how violently different speakers, IEM's and headphones can sound, the difference in the DAC/amp section is more subtle.

 

Plus some headphones have a fixed sound while others will let the source shine through, so they'll act picky with the source, ask for synergy.

post #54 of 68
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by khaos974 View Post

If you believe that the ODAC has crossed the threshold of audibility, it]'s coherent say that if you heard a Benchmark, a Weiss, a Lavry, a Prism, a DacMagic, or a MF DAC1, you know how the ODAC sounds, since they all sound the same.
If you don't believe the that the threshold of audibility was crossed, then you should also know that between the first and the latest revision of the ODAC, both of them using the ES9023, some 10-15 dB of dynamic rage was gained, implementation is everything.

So saying that 2 DACs sound the same, considering you have no idea of how the DAC chips were implemented is a tad presumptuous, unless you consider that hthe AKD-23S has achieved perfect transparency.

So if I understanf your pov, the Weiss DAC 202, the Oppo BD-95 and the Anedio D2 all sound the same? They all use the ES9018 after all.

 

Just to clarify this is not my POV, I was speculating on the assertions of transparency.

 

In fact this posts asserts some magazine DBT'd a few modern DAC's you mentioned, hearing a difference in DBT... http://www.head-fi.org/t/571259/hi-rez-another-myth-exploded/60#post_7755498

 

That user also says most music only has a dynamic range of around 12dB, and orchestral music around 60dB, the ODAC achieved 111dB, CD's have 96dB, a little confused ...

post #55 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by khaos974 View Post

If you believe that the ODAC has crossed the threshold of audibility, it]'s coherent say that if you heard a Benchmark, a Weiss, a Lavry, a Prism, a DacMagic, or a MF DAC1, you know how the ODAC sounds, since they all sound the same.

If you don't believe the that the threshold of audibility was crossed, then you should also know that between the first and the latest revision of the ODAC, both of them using the ES9023, some 10-15 dB of dynamic rage was gained, implementation is everything.


So saying that 2 DACs sound the same, considering you have no idea of how the DAC chips were implemented is a tad presumptuous, unless you consider that hthe AKD-23S has achieved perfect transparency.


So if I understanf your pov, the Weiss DAC 202, the Oppo BD-95 and the Anedio D2 all sound the same? They all use the ES9018 after all.

Just to clarify this is not my POV, I was speculating on the assertions of transparency.

In fact this posts asserts some magazine DBT'd a few modern DAC's you mentioned, hearing a difference in DBT... http://www.head-fi.org/t/571259/hi-rez-another-myth-exploded/60#post_7755498

That user also says most music only has a dynamic range of around 12dB, and orchestral music around 60dB, the ODAC achieved 111dB, CD's have 96dB, a little confused ...

A higher background noise makes softer musical details harder to pick up.
When that user said that orchestral music has a dynamic range of 60 dB, he's not referring to dynamic range as SNR, but rather to the difference of volume between a pianissimo and a fortissimo, totally different notions.
post #56 of 68
Thread Starter 

Some nice literature on Sabre ESS DAC's - http://www.teddigital.com/ESS_Es9008s_en.htm

 

 

Never knew the ODAC used such esoteric parts.

 

Nice listening environment they have there.

post #57 of 68

so how the ODAC sounds?:D
 

post #58 of 68

Does anybody know if the E-DAC / ODAC will work off an iPad2 with CCK (but without a powered USB hub)?

post #59 of 68

My guess would be no, unfortunately. As far as I know, only a few DACs designed specifically for ipods/ipads work with them.

post #60 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJG888 View Post

Does anybody know if the E-DAC / ODAC will work off an iPad2 with CCK (but without a powered USB hub)?
I will let you know when I get mine. It should with a powered usb hub.
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