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I Basso HDP R 10 is IBasso DX 100 Japan Version impressions thread - Page 66

post #976 of 1621
It is nothing like the dx100. They use different software , different chips . And different componets on a different board. And the dac chip is not the same either.

The dx100 is a pig compared to HDP r10. Even the battery is not the same. I ! Not downing the dx100 owners but anyone here that had both sold the dx100. As I did. And I basso with the firmware chNGes all,the time and never bothering to just stip the software down to just a palaver as hibino did . Right after it's release tells be the I basso camp has feature mined group and the hibino was all about the sound. It's 2 years later and I can afford to buy what ever I want . I still own the hibino. And I sold the AK120. Yes the ak120 was small and worked much better than the hibino . But the sound lacked I lmpact and micro detail. Line out did sound better though. So maybe what VINNY at wine audio was doing was a really good idea. . I own a I basso bal portible amp. It's pretty good. But no DAPS for me , not from them. They have the resources to A make a great product but truly lack the follow up to perfection . Now let the bashing begin. And yes my English stinks. But my hearing is fine LOL.

AL
post #977 of 1621

Really!? I'm scouring through Google to find the internals of the HDP-R10. I know about the battery being different (see this DX100 post I made back on 28/04/12) as there was discussion early on the DX100 thread of which I had to then find out for myself.

 

I think you're incorrect about the DAC chip though as they both use ES9018 DACs. The OpAmp of the HDP-R10 is the OPA627 whereas the DX100 is "scratched off". But like I said before I thought that aside from the power (i.e. the battery) and the OpAmp, the internal hardware should be the same.

 

For the software, that is known as such the variants in firmware versions. Whether that's due to the support of Japanese language and a proprietary player for DSD->PCM conversion or whether the Android OS version itself is different, I'm not certain.

 

If you have links to the internals of the HDP-R10, I'd love to see them and compare to my former DX100 which I opened up.

post #978 of 1621
I was thinking like you until in seen the photos
Any way it's on here where the pics were posted.
In the hdp thread
I think there is more than one of them.
I am not saying I is complete different
But it is changed enOugh to make me feel someone
Put a lot if effort into it. As I am a Psaudio
Pwd mkiii owner and I do like updates
But for better options or GUI not changing the sound so many
Times who know s what is better or correct
Now ps audio did this too. But every release
Refined features and sound. Where with I basso
It's just to make the damn thing work as when it was released
There was a whole thread on issues to be resolved
How crazy is that. As I basso is a good company
I do not agree with there way of reLeasing
Products and try and fix later. Years later lol

Al
post #979 of 1621

Errr...did you take a closer look at the pictures :rolleyes:??

 

Here's the HDP-R10 :-

 

 

DX100

P1000297.jpg

 

You'll notice that the design is mostly the same. The most notable difference is on the left side of the PCB where the HDP-R10 has a cutout notch and the chip layout is a a little different from the DX100 but aside from that, the DAC on both are ES9018s, caps are the same, the positions of the buffers and OpAmps are in the same locations (but on the DX100 they're rubbed out whereas on the HDP-R10 they're clearly OPA627s).

 

So I won't say that :-

 

Quote:
It is nothing like the dx100. They use different software , different chips . And different componets on a different board. And the dac chip is not the same either.
post #980 of 1621
I know they look similar. But even the PC board layout is different. So even though the parts seem the seem no one can tell how the interconnect writing is done.

Also regarding the chips did the dx100. Ever do dsd playback on the fly ?
Not that it makes all the difference but it does prove a point of two different machines with less in common.
As for op amps who knows but I know they sound very different . Also the battery configuration is different . But the real point is not just the insides it's how it all comes together in sound . And if they were the same or close why wouldn't ibasso just use hibino,s firmware . Instead of tortureing us all for two years .

Al
post #981 of 1621

The PCB board layout is different!? Sorry, can you please describe to me on how you feel they look different? As I said, aside from the notch and chip layout being different on the left of the PCB, more than 4/5's of the layout is the same.

 

The DX100 doesn't do DSD playback on the fly but that has got nothing to do with the chips on the DX100. The HDP-R10 does DSD playback by converting to PCM in software realtime - as such the difference in OS. i.e. the HDP-R10 doesn't do native DSD playback so it's not HDP-R10's hardware that's doing the DSD conversion.

 

Note: yes I know the ES9018 is DSD capable, it's not used that way in the HDP-R10.

post #982 of 1621
Look I am not trying to prove a point about how disimiler or simaler they are. Maybe your correct they are close or the same . But sound and function is very different . I know it converts on the fly this is why I use flac and convert from dsd it saves batter and speeds up the already very slow GUI. But my point is they are different . Anyway witch ones do you own or owned ?
Have you been able to compare them side by side. He'll I spent about 1200 or more on that dap. It was my first , the dx100 I never owned but did have a bud with one and he loaned it to me for a couple of weeks. As for the op amps I do not know what they are but they are more powerfull in output as well. At least to my ears.

Al
post #983 of 1621
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post
 

 

Admittedly i didn't own the HDP-R10 but I think it's almost the same hardware as the DX100 except for the power side and the OpAmps...

[snip!]

Originally Posted by ALRAINBOW View Post

It is nothing like the dx100. They use different software , different chips . And different componets on a different board. And the dac chip is not the same either.

[snip!]

 

Originally Posted by ALRAINBOW View Post

Look I am not trying to prove a point about how disimiler or simaler they are. Maybe your correct they are close or the same . 

[snip!]

 

I'm addressing quite specifically this point. Just my thoughts but I think it's quite misleading to readers to say that the two are dissimilar. I've actually re-adjusted the perspective and fisheye-ed my photo to match the HDP-R10 I found on the net :-

 

HDP-R10

 

DX100

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRAINBOW View Post

I know it converts on the fly this is why I use flac and convert from dsd it saves batter and speeds up the already very slow GUI. But my point is they are different . Anyway witch ones do you own or owned ?
Have you been able to compare them side by side. He'll I spent about 1200 or more on that dap. It was my first , the dx100 I never owned but did have a bud with one and he loaned it to me for a couple of weeks. As for the op amps I do not know what they are but they are more powerfull in output as well. At least to my ears.

Al

 

It may help for you to be specific what you mean that they're different. 'cos with your initial post above, you were saying that they were completely different, software, and hardware. I'm merely begging to differ that the statement is incorrect.
 
I was the opposite, I owned the DX100 for more than a year. As in my previous link I was also the first (if not one of the first) to open up the DX100. I didn't own the HDP-R10 cos when I demoed it it didn't feel the two were different enough sonically to warrant a change. I did do the comparison between the two quite early on when the HDP-R10 was first released in other words both the DX100 and HDP-R10 firmwares were quite immature. Anyway, this is drifting to a different topic. My main point is (back to what I originally posted) is that the DX100 and HDP-R10 are almost the same hardware except for the OpAmps and the power.
post #984 of 1621
Hahaha another unhappy DX 100 owner

Ok you win. So what is the rule on completely
Different
Different op amps
Battery
Changes in board
Completely different operating software
Not compatible with dx100 at all
Not the same user interface as no options
For third party install
Let's see oh yes your picky LMAO

ok there are exactly the same I give up
Al
post #985 of 1621
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRAINBOW View Post

Hahaha another unhappy DX 100 owner

Ok you win. So what is the rule on completely
Different
Different op amps
Battery
Changes in board
Completely different operating software
Not compatible with dx100 at all
Not the same user interface as no options
For third party install
Let's see oh yes your picky LMAO

ok there are exactly the same I give up
Al

 

Well I won't say I'm picky. But I do believe in being accurate and specific as I believe it will be in the benefit of other readers. I am stating that the hardware DX100 and HDP-R10 are much more similar than different (or in your words "Nothing like the DX100" which implies "completely different"). It's the just OpAmp and the power that's different.

 

As for the Operating Software, well both DX100 and HDP-R10's are on Android 2.3.1 OS. That's the same OS. The applications provided above the are different. DX100 still has Google Play whilst that's been stripped out on the HDP-R10. The actual player software is also different. But that doesn't mean that they are completely different operating software.

 

Let's try this for an analogy :-

 

You have a 2014 27" Mac, I have a 2014 27" Mac. You're running off an SSD storage, whilst I using a Samsung HDD. Your iMac is on a power conditioner, mine is powered directly from the wall. You're running Mavericks MacOS 10.9.2, and I'm running Mavericks MacOS 10.9.2. You prefer Audirvana Plus where you can do DSD->PCM whilst I run Fidelia which has no DSD support.

 

So does this mean our computers; hardware, software, and chips, are "nothing alike at all"? Or does it mean that we really have almost the same setup but just tweaked differently?

post #986 of 1621
Ok you win they are whatever you say they are
How ever you it is.
I M wrong completely.
But i do have a question what did you buy to replace
The dx100.
Al
post #987 of 1621

Hnmmm...I was hoping for a more constructive debate 'cos as you can see I did put quite a bit of effort in researching, and pulling up evidence to justify my statements. But, as you said, whatever.

 

I moved onto the HM-901 instead to benefit from the balanced headphone out. It's UI isn't a giant leap better but less laggy. Also full SD cards had larger capacities sooner than microSD cards.

post #988 of 1621
No sorry I am not a litigation attorney. Lol. I do,respect your post,s in fact you are one I beleave whren you make comments . Now in this i respectfully agree to disagree. .

I think if comes down to what makes it completely different by defininition and maybe the majority is the same so I loose. But I really do feel they are different units .

Now as for sound I actually dislike sabre dacs as a whole . But somehow I like this one. Now as for your new choice I have read good things about it. , but I would like to hear it for myself. But I wish to reamin respectful in my opinion .
Al
post #989 of 1621

The price is around 420 euros in pricejapan.com. Too hard to resist honestly. I wonder if it can go even further down. Maybe after DX90, hopefully.

post #990 of 1621
I think your greed will get you in the end.
As they are not making them anymore
I would by now so if need be DOA
They can supply another
Al
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